Galleon Spoilers

[Ger]

Drag is not activation only.

[PG_ikildkenny]

the Galleon is godsent for Bart ... for weeks now I'm trying to come with a reasonabel solution (and a Mule was only my "last resort choice" to solve the "crown Controll issue" with a Jackheavy Bartlist ... know I have the answer!!

FYI - I was looking for a complementing list for my inf-swarm Gorten for the OETC:
System: Warmachine
Faction: Four Star Syndicate
Casters: 1/1
Points: 50/50
Gorten Grundback (*7pts)
* Grundback Gunner (3pts)
* Ghordson Driller (6pts)
* Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts)
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
Kayazy Assassins (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Kayazy Assassin Underboss (2pts)
Kayazy Eliminators (Leader and Grunt) (3pts)
Kayazy Eliminators (Leader and Grunt) (3pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)
Thor Steinhammer (2pts)

so ... assuming that thing comes out till mid-september (wich might still be true ... hope dies last):

System: Warmachine
Faction: Highborn Covenant
Casters: 1/1
Points: 50/50
Captain Bartolo Montador (*5pts)
* Rover (8pts)
* Rover (8pts)
* Galleon (18 pts)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Lanyssa Ryssyll, Nyss Sorceress (2pts)
Master Gunner Dougal MacNaile (2pts)
Ogrun Bokur (3pts)
Ragman (2pts)
Taryn di la Rovissi (2pts)

sure, no reapairoption or extra ARM (asside from BDTH) ... but hey, I make him stronger (a lot) more accurate and I ca shoot casters behind other colossals ...

btw ... since Colossals CAN shoot their opponents in Melee ... the Galleon really can reighn hell over his opp in CC - 2-6 templates with +2 RAT, Harpoon (all with boostet dmg under Bart) and after the Harpoon hit additional Attacks ... thats really crazy ... to bad one kind of "has" to spend that one FOC to boost the Harpoon's hit ... or all the other potential attacks go to waste ... oh ... and don't forget, that dark shroud allso applies to your shot if your opponents are in your melee range ... this ist so juicy, i went through 2 pairs of pants allready (and looking for the 4th atm)

[FerrusManus]

Also Double-Powder Rations works on harpoon too, so with pMagnus you yoink models 16" away.

[pattison]

^^ This is just beautiful.

[cannonball]

btw ... since Colossals CAN shoot their opponents in Melee ... the Galleon really can reighn hell over his opp in CC - 2-6 templates with +2 RAT, Harpoon (all with boostet dmg under Bart) and after the Harpoon hit additional Attacks ... thats really crazy ... to bad one kind of "has" to spend that one FOC to boost the Harpoon's hit ... or all the other potential attacks go to waste ... oh ... and don't forget, that dark shroud allso applies to your shot if your opponents are in your melee range ... this ist so juicy, i went through 2 pairs of pants allready (and looking for the 4th atm)

How do you get the +2 RAT? I don't have the NQ in front of me bit I don't think you get the aiming bonus when in melee. Otherwise shooting your opponent in combat does sound a little fun if your light on focus and swarmed.

[PG_hendybadger]

This might be a silly question or I may have totally miseed it while reading these threads but,
Does Galleon count as a non-character Warjack for the sake of Tier lists?

[PG_ikildkenny]

How do you get the +2 RAT? I don't have the NQ in front of me bit I don't think you get the aiming bonus when in melee. Otherwise shooting your opponent in combat does sound a little fun if your light on focus and swarmed.

Artillerist ... sure, it's only for his nipple-guns but still ...

@ Tier: yes, he is a non-character warjack with an open fist and shooting weapons in all respects ... that includes tiers and most importantly bonds ...BUT he is not a heavy-Jack!! (so he doesn't count towards e.g. barts tier for the addition 2" deployment)

[PG_hendybadger]

Yay!
That makes a very happy Shea player!!!!!

[Ger]

The interactions of Drag with our faction is very interesting. That's likely going to be the workhorse rule for us.

Something has occurred to me. It can shoot all it's guns in melee yes? So let's say it walks up to an enemy Colossal or Battle Engine. It unloads all it's guns and then the Harpoon. Can it then make melee attacks? I do believe it gets to!

[PG_ikildkenny]

I don't have the exact wording on me atm ... but:

IF the wording demands that you get the extra attack AFTER the is pushed ... you won't get the attack (since your target can't be pushed) ... if you only have to complete the shot as such - we're golden

but on a related note - has anyone done the math of a galleon with 3 focus under hotshot vs another colossal? even better with ragman behind him and starting in melee (and assuming the whole harpoon-drag-trick works)...

average 4 nipple-guns @ POW 15, Harpoon @ 17 and 4 Tridents @ P+S 23 vs a stromwall ... also assuming all attacks hit:

(15+3d6(~10.5)-19)*4 + 17+3d6-19 + (23+2d6(~7)-19)*4 = 6.5*4+8.5+11*4=78.5 ... so even 2 FOC for extra attacks would suffice ...
vs a Arcane shield Stormwall that whole shabang would be 9*3=27 dmg less ... so 51.5 and would than require additional recources to oneshot a stormwall ...
one could do that whole thing from 17" away (or 12" with aiming bonus), but that would result in 10 damage less (allways assuming average rolls of course) because of the missing darkshroud on his ranged attacks

btw ... I just went through pants Nr5

[DocMerc]

Tier four pmags at 50 points
Magnus
Galleon (temper metal)
Renegade x2
Mangler( iron aggression)
Min halberdiers x2
Kell
Saxon
Gorman
Min riflemen.

Could be fun to try, moving snipe from renegade to renegade to galleon as needed

[DocMerc]

You could also put a small army of shooters hidden behind his gigantic base, then each turn taryn shoots him allowing your army to ignore him.
Great way to prevent more fragile ranged troops from getting shot.
Now you see him...now you don't...

[Coinlord]

In the spoiler video, it's expressly stated that the Colossals don't have virtuoso, so they cannot make their ranged and melee attacks in the same activation. Any opposing rulings on that?

[DocMerc]

Do you rewards for drag allow the model doing the dragging to make additional melee attacks after the initial drag attack is resolved. So it seems to me you resolve all of your shooting do your drag and then resolve your melee attacks

[Ger]

In the spoiler video, it's expressly stated that the Colossals don't have virtuoso, so they cannot make their ranged and melee attacks in the same activation. Any opposing rulings on that?

The fact Drag specifically says you can buy additional melee attacks. I believe this is the first time a model with drag has other guns.

[PG_LunarSol]

I really, really want to run:

Bart - 35 pts
Galleon
Wysh
WrongEye & Snapjaw
Bullsnapper
Thor
Meg
MacDougal
Ragman

That just seems hilarious. Honestly, just once I'd want the game to end with Snapjaw frenzying and killing Captain Hook.

[Ger]

Fiona + Galleon. Galleon stands in front of your Nonokrion Branded unit and just slowly walks up the field.

This thing is definitely just made for Bart. Like Bart just went from one of our weakest casters to one of our best when paired with this thing.

Let's see with Shae...Godspeed doesn't work on it so no feat. Coup De Maine requires a charge which means no shooting which isn't steller. Although with Coup it threatens a 12" charge. Phantasm is the winner spell for it I think. Toss that up, toss up Veil of mists next to it and you have a wall of "haha you can't shoot me". Though I think the real boost is simply being an expensive model that ruins anything it reaches. Something Talion/Pirates life could take advantage of.

Ashlynn works great with everything though her feat is nigh useless for Galleon defensivly. Offensively it's sweet as can be. Quicken could be great on it. Speed 7 means a 17" drag threat. No admonition though...Gallows into drag could be hilarity.

[JamesDiGriz]

As a Cygnar and Merc player I nearly cried when I read what we got in this round of releases... I am super psyched for both of the colossals and the casters. I am looking forward to dragging a battle engine at least once . From the merc side of things... holy crap I can crack high armor finally with out pulling out dwarfs! Come on Colossals... where is my temporal harpoon so I can drag this guy to me then preform *action: increase credit card debt.

[Rinion]

Can collossals shoot at what theyre in melee with? If so, can you just Drag something youre already in combat with and get the free attack against it?

[lastspartacus]

Oh. What STR? Big question. Was it ever confirmed if the power attack sweep only effected half an arc?

edit: confirmed crane is open fist?

[Ger]

So sudden realization.

Bart as 5 WJ points. At 15 points, assuming you can spend WJ points on colossal, Galleon and a 2 point solo. That is Galleon and either Ragman or Dougal.

[jonconcarne]

I am looking forward to dragging a battle engine at least once .

Grrrr. You got my hopes up all crazy like . Anyways, BE have the massive rule, so no slams, pushes, throws, KD, or stationary on them.

[jandrese]

Oh. What STR? Big question. Was it ever confirmed if the power attack sweep only effected half an arc?

edit: confirmed crane is open fist?

I don't know the STR (probably 16 or maybe 17), but Sweep is 1/4 arc only. Crane is an open fist, but the harpoon is not.

[jandrese]

Can collossals shoot at what theyre in melee with? If so, can you just Drag something youre already in combat with and get the free attack against it?

Yes, you can shoot things you are in melee with, and you don't even suffer the -4 penalty.

The biggest thing I see about him is that being able to do ranged attacks and melee in the same activation gives him a lot more destructive power than most colossals. The only downside is that I think you have to hit and damage with the harpoon and then actually get the model hit into melee range for the switchover to work. So if you flub the attack roll on the harpoon, or flub the damage roll, or the model you drag gets hung up on something, then no switchover. It's a little dicey with only RAT 5 and POW 14, especially against a Khador heavy or something.

[Ashcans]

I don't know the STR (probably 16 or maybe 17), but Sweep is 1/4 arc only. Crane is an open fist, but the harpoon is not.

The Pow of an open fist is usually 3 (and I think we have seen this on other Colossals already) so it seems likely that the Galleon is STR16 base.

[lastspartacus]

+1 pow to what you guessed there, jandrese. For the harpoon.

And bah I say. If galleon is even weaker in str than the cygnar jack I'll be quite sad.

[jonconcarne]

The only downside is that I think you have to hit and damage with the harpoon and then actually get the model hit into melee range for the switchover to work. So if you flub the attack roll on the harpoon, or flub the damage roll, or the model you drag gets hung up on something, then no switchover. It's a little dicey with only RAT 5 and POW 14, especially against a Khador heavy or something.

Drag – If this weapon damages an enemy model with an equal or smaller sized base, immediately after the attack is resolved the damaged model can be pushed any distance (i.e. untilb2b) directly toward this model. After the damaged model is moved, this model can make one normal melee attack against the model pushed. After resolving this melee attack, this model can make additional melee attacks during its combat action.


I don't think you need to get the switchover to make more melee attacks. You just need to process the drag, i.e. hit and damage. And with Galleon's POW 15, not POW 14, harpoon, that's pretty freaking likely. You need a 6 against a typical Khador heavy to damage it. The RAT 5 will be the tougher part, but that's why you'll boost .

[Smiles]

I can't believe no one, particularly Devil Squid, hasn't spoken for Damiano's synergy with this guy.

Dead Eye can make sure you hit that caster every time with the Harpoon gun, and suddenly that Crane attack is PS24 on feat turn, not to mention being Arm 22.
Cast warpath on Damiano for that extra 3" threat, bringing it up to 18" threat (13" w/aiming bonus, but who cares when you're rolling 4d6 to hit)
Cast, and upkeep, Surefoot on the big guy just to really get your focus' worth.

Rocinante has a new friend.

Damiano Tier 4 List
Damiano -6
-Rocinante 9
-Galleon 18
Steelhead Cav (full) 9 (tier benefit)
Steelhead Halbies (full) 6
Steelhead Halbies (full) 6
Steelhead Riflemen (min) 5
Stannis Brocker 4

[jonconcarne]

you can't warpath colossals. They can only move during their normal movement.

[Smiles]

Oh, that's too bad. Still had good synergy with him. 15" threat is all that I need.

[jonconcarne]

Oh, that's too bad. Still had good synergy with him. 15" threat is all that I need.

yup, I like it. I'll be taking Dougal and probably Wrongeye and Snapjaw with a bullsnapper in a lot of the lists that I drop Galleon into right now. Should be fun

[jandrese]

After resolving this melee attack, this model can make additional melee attacks during its combat action.

If you don't resolve the melee attack, you can't buy additional melee attacks. At least that's how I read it.

[jonconcarne]

If you don't resolve the melee attack, you can't buy additional melee attacks. At least that's how I read it.

What do you need to resolve it. Check melee range, not in range, attack resolved. It doesn't say that you have to have made a succesful melee attack. It just says to resolve it, as in finish dealing with the free attack granted by it. It reads more as an order of operations to me than a requirement to making additional attacks.

Just started a rules thread about it. Maybe I'm just putting my hopes into reading the rule, so we'll see.

[jandrese]

That's the thing, you can't even declare a melee attack against something that's not in your melee range. That's the thing that used to trip up Vlad and prevented him from mimicing Reach. I don't think that has changed from Mk I to Mk II either.

[jonconcarne]

Got it. Well, I think it needs some kind of ruling to explain it a bit (whether that phrase is a requirement or timing note), but I'll probably play it as the weaker version for now.

[lastspartacus]

Testing Galleon right now and loving him. Won't be doing any power attacks though until someone gives us a break with the STR.

One thing, I just cant justify a 2 point solo in a Bart list that only repairs, I really wish we had a unit or 1 point solo.

Until then, just trying to tough it out and I have found that more offensive power is better than repairing sometimes, so Kell is doing great for me.

[jandrese]

Squinting at the video, it looks like STR 16 with POW 3 on the Crane and POW 5 on the Harpoon thing.

POW 3 puts the Crane right in line with an ordinary colossal open fist.

[jonconcarne]

Testing Galleon right now and loving him. Won't be doing any power attacks though until someone gives us a break with the STR.

One thing, I just cant justify a 2 point solo in a Bart list that only repairs, I really wish we had a unit or 1 point solo.

Until then, just trying to tough it out and I have found that more offensive power is better than repairing sometimes, so Kell is doing great for me.

I'd go with STR 16 for tests. So how have you been playing Galleon that you don't repair him? I'm planning on playing him as a ranged beast, dragging crap in to beat it to hell.

[lastspartacus]

So less STR than the frail stormwall, sure

I have been playing him without repairs, but only with Bart so far. Hotshot is NASTY. Just had a psorscha player concede. Playing tier4 Threemo now.

Bart
Galleon
Mangler
Mule
W+J
Bull Snapper
eEiryss
Ragman
Kell
Wishnailer

Lets see how he does against the dreaded Stormwall.

[jonconcarne]

Interesting, I was just going to be using a Nomad + boomies to block tramples to him.