Reverse Nerf?

[The Junkie]

I was talking to a friend about the concept of reverse nerf for Cryx. Meaning that instead of changing our existing models they are reducing the effectiveness of our new releases. I am a new player to the game so I don't the experience to compare to MK1, but the last releases seem to pale in comparison to what we already have. Does anyone else see this, or is it my lack of experience clouding my opinion.

[solkan]

As if players collecting the other factions don't say, "Why would I bother getting new model X, I already have existing model Y?"

[juckto]

Sure, we may have had a ho-hum set of releases, but your conspiracy theory only works if you assume every other faction got releases which pushed their power curve up drastically.

[Island]

Gaspy3 Looks sick. Not agreeing.

[Barrynstein]

Gaspy3 is sick, damn near anemic compared to Gaspy2.

[FerrusManus]

Still I would rank eeGaspy as second best caster in the book (after eeNemo).

[blakeh1]

There are those who would say it's karma for Tartarus the Deathjack, prime Deneghra and Epic Asphyxious

[SpiderBite]

there are those who would say Cryx won't get anything amazing until people stop crying we're OP. (never going to happen)
then there's those who are content to let someone else have the spotlight for awhile.

[Deo85]

eh our eGaspy got hit with the nerf bat twice for good reason he was broken as sin to say the least. Now granted we do have some less then stellar models like the WA to the reverent crew who wants crappy shooting skeletons when you can just done out the Nyss hunters instead. The Soulhunters are given crap time and time again. And the Druger only positive spin is there price tag per body in the unit... granted they do nothing but hey there cheep fodder! Our artillery is a joke also which is why so many people move to the bloat thralls when they want a "artillery" piece of the action.

Its a nice theory but its just hard to come up with something new and shiny that can be a top shelf with everything we have all ready I say.

[GreenJello]

I'm going to go C) "Balance is a VERY tricky thing to do" Sometimes you end up on the slightly better end, other times no. Further, once you're on the slightly better end, it's much harder to add something to compete with that, without a little nudge further up the OP scale. So, yes, when you have an outstanding line up, the next addition is going to be more likely to seem lackluster.

[PG_Dmark]

People only cry OP on us because they don't get how the faction is played

[Barrynstein]

I have to agree with whoever said that if this had been a completely new caster we wouldn't mind so much. I am feeling that some of this sting is the comparison of thsi to previous Gaspys, and you can't help but compare.

Would we be as divided on the effectiveness of this model had this been a new version of goreshade? Venethrax?

Other factions look at him and say wow that is neat. The fact that we aren't does signal that when it comes to great casters we have an embarrassment of riches. I think when I really really look at the situation, I am disappointed because of who was chosen to get a 3rd version not the rules of this new version. I think our feat and Vyros's feat are the most situational in this release - both needing our opponent to fuel the feat.
I think that Eiryss is going to make using this version as intended (meaning as far forward on the table as he will need to be) incredibly hard to do and extremely reliant on soul collection to protect that - which is not a good and reliable mechanic to be dependent upon. I know I can only speak anecdotally, but I rarely face a list without tough infantry (I know we have mechanics to deal with that - however that still requires things to work out for you so even that isn't 100%) and I dare say Eiryss is in 80% of the lists I face which means that if he can't use his souls to boost armor, he has a slightly better chance of surviving in melee as Gerlak does - and only because of the 3 point higher def.

[The Junkie]

I'm going to go C) "Balance is a VERY tricky thing to do" Sometimes you end up on the slightly better end, other times no. Further, once you're on the slightly better end, it's much harder to add something to compete with that, without a little nudge further up the OP scale. So, yes, when you have an outstanding line up, the next addition is going to be more likely to seem lackluster.

I completely understand what you're saying. That being said balance can be accomplished by filling holes to even things out in a faction. We have great infantry and casters who generally don't want to fuel too many jacks. I am sure more experienced members can come up with more examples than I.

[Vex]

Still I would rank eeGaspy as second best caster in the book (after eeNemo).

And second worst caster in the faction (before Venethrax).

[PG_Dmark]

And second worst caster in the faction (before Venethrax).

How on Earth is the new Gaspy bad?

[Vex]

How on Earth is the new Gaspy bad?

No Cryx casters are bad. Some are just better than others. Turns out that most are better than Gaspy3.

[SpiderBite]

How on Earth is the new Gaspy bad?

Its not that he's bad. I just dont see him doing anything particularly 'good' that our other casters dont do better.

[tzeentchling9]

And second worst caster in the faction (before Venethrax).

Yep, it must really suck to be the worst of the best.

[GreenJello]

I completely understand what you're saying. That being said balance can be accomplished by filling holes to even things out in a faction.

And can you do that while also:
1) adding something cool/interesting
2) Maintaining differentiation from the other 10 (probably soon to be 11 or 12) factions?

Some of the holes in various factions are not meant to be filled. Cryx should probably never expect to get the excellent shooting that exists in Ret/Cygnar. Cygnar shouldn't get the cool debuffs that exists in Cryx. They're starting to have some overlap though. Cryx now has access to Nyss and Croes (added in the 4th book), which gives them closer to Cygnar like shooting prowess. Cygnar has access to the Ragman, for Dark Shroud, and a Fell Caller in all but name (Arch Duke).

[PG_Norton]

I think they have made satyxis raiders even better. One of the problems with these girls is that they destroy their targeted warjack, before feedback destroys the caster or geting them in melee around the jack. Colossals have convenantly solved both these problems.

[Shinokaze]

Gaspy 3 looks great Carnage opens up a lot options with are MAT 5 and 6 infantry Darragh Wrathe and ashen veil makes for -4 to hit them suddenly mcthralls dont just speed bump. I see his feat as more of a scenario winner

[Decade]

Gaspy 3 looks great Carnage opens up a lot options with are MAT 5 and 6 infantry Darragh Wrathe and ashen veil makes for -4 to hit them suddenly mcthralls dont just speed bump. I see his feat as more of a scenario winner

Wrathe doesn't give a penalty to hit, he gives a penalty to damage.

[Scottl1]

How is the new gaspy bad? Between him and BLT they can make 2 thralls units +2 mat. His feat does horrible naughty things to Hordes and spend happy casters. He can do Terminus better then terminus cause not only can he run about with 35 arm he buffs his WHOLE army lol Then while he chops away at things he gets free hex blasts. lol

Played a proxy game with him today and rampaged all over emakeda and the skorne allstars. Hes as good vs hordes as Venny. He can out terminus Terminus. he can blast or buff deonding what you run him with. He's a beast. lol While he killed a gladiator he arced a hex blast and killed some more. lol His angles are crazy.

[PG_Noble Seven]

How is he reliably getting 35 armor?

[Sheer_Falacy]

I'm also not sure how him + BLT are giving 2 thrall units +2 mat. He alone gives all your thralls +2 mat, unless he needs to hang far enough back that he can't carnage. BLT + 3Gaspy can get you mat 10 thralls, who hit IF winterguard more than half the time.

[Binz]

How is he reliably getting 35 armor?

Only on one turn.

If your lucky.

And your opponent decides to lose the game...

seriously. Its a denial feat, stop casting and forcing!~!

I think any player who tries to cast/force while his feat is up (unless its Molik Karn in melee with 3Gaspy) is actively trying to lose the game

[Scottl1]

The feat is much better vs hordes in general in my opinion. I think it's a dud vs wm.

[revrandom]

Only on one turn.

If your lucky.

And your opponent decides to lose the game...

seriously. Its a denial feat, stop casting and forcing!~!

I think any player who tries to cast/force while his feat is up (unless its Molik Karn in melee with 3Gaspy) is actively trying to lose the game

L&L Masters final took a big shift when Flanzer popped pDoomy's feat. It looked like it all went downhill for Jake after that since he pretty much didn't force anything on his turn. Eegaspy's feat could have the same effect on an opponent.

Personally, I think it's a strong feat.

[Octavius_Maximus]

"Stop Casting and Forcing" they say.

As if it were that easy.

Its Warmachine, he who gets the first strike generally gets the kill, especially with jacks.

Suddenly being unable to spend focus on my Jacks on the turn i wanted to alpha is crippling. Especially when enemy Helljacks could be SPD8 with pathfinder next turn, so able to charge me even if i move backwards.

[Drzombieface]

The only reason people are dooming Gaspy3 is because they're trying to compare him to the most broken caster in the game.


Stop it. Bad dogs. No. *sprays with water bottle*


When you think of him as his own Warcaster (which is what you should be doing), He seems very strong. He has a good feat, not broken (Not everything has to be broken to do well, despite what power gamers that only play eGaspy think.) It's either a very strong denial feat, or it's a feat that does Terminus' job better than Terminus. He's got a strong support spell list, and has the potential to get fed to Rasheth levels of fat on Souls/Focus on his feat turn, and with the help of Vociferon juggling souls in the mid- line.


Honestly, the one single thing I don't like about him, is that he doesn't have Parasite on his spell list. That's it. That's the only thing I can find wrong with him.

And his feat's potential is certainly lower when facing WM than Hordes, but it's still got some meat on its bones.

[Sheer_Falacy]

The only reason people are dooming Gaspy3 is because they're trying to compare him to the most broken caster in the game.


Stop it. Bad dogs. No. *sprays with water bottle*


When you think of him as his own Warcaster (which is what you should be doing), He seems very strong. He has a good feat, not broken (Not everything has to be broken to do well, despite what power gamers that only play eGaspy think.) It's either a very strong denial feat, or it's a feat that does Terminus' job better than Terminus. He's got a strong support spell list, and has the potential to get fed to Rasheth levels of fat on Souls/Focus on his feat turn, and with the help of Vociferon juggling souls in the mid- line.


Honestly, the one single thing I don't like about him, is that he doesn't have Parasite on his spell list. That's it. That's the only thing I can find wrong with him.

And his feat's potential is certainly lower when facing WM than Hordes, but it's still got some meat on its bones.

People keep saying that, but no one is comparing him to eGaspy. He has nothing in common with eGaspy except his basic stat line - no spells, no playstyle, no abilities except cull soul. He's being compared to pGaspy, pSkarre, Terminus, and sometimes Venethrax, because he actually has some things in common with them - armywide buffing, potentially significant soul acquisition, desire to melee, scything touch, etc.

[Vex]

"Stop Casting and Forcing" they say.

As if it were that easy.

Its Warmachine, he who gets the first strike generally gets the kill, especially with jacks.

Suddenly being unable to spend focus on my Jacks on the turn i wanted to alpha is crippling. Especially when enemy Helljacks could be SPD8 with pathfinder next turn, so able to charge me even if i move backwards.

If your charge is going to be devastating, then go ahead and spend focus, crush his army, and do something to lock 3Gaspy down. Win. If you aren't going to have a particularly impressive turn, then withdrawn a bit, and screen your important models with something expendable. This doesn't seem that hard. Absolutely, though, do not charge his line, fail to do anything very useful, and give him a dozen extra focus.

That's the thing about his feat. The opponent gets to choose what it does. It either reads "cannot force/cast in 3Gapsy's control area" or its actual wording. Competent opponents will figure out which is less beneficial to the 3Gaspy player, and do that.

[Vex]

People keep saying that, but no one is comparing him to eGaspy. He has nothing in common with eGaspy except his basic stat line - no spells, no playstyle, no abilities except cull soul. He's being compared to pGaspy, pSkarre, Terminus, and sometimes Venethrax, because he actually has some things in common with them - armywide buffing, potentially significant soul acquisition, desire to melee, scything touch, etc.

And, hey, I think everyone agrees that he is better than Venethrax, so... win?