Gaspy3 spoiled.

[PG_Wankel]

saw the pic in you link lamron, just he figure itself is enough for me to play him.

BTW any confirmation about his focus? still 7? 8 would be sooo sweet!

[Adurot]

I hear V has the same melee attack as a Skarlock, aka poopy.

[Adurot]

Same Focus. No eight sadly.

[PG_Wankel]

Ty Adurot

was toying with a 50pts t3 list and came up with this:

System: Warmachine
Faction: Cryx
Casters: 1/1Points: 50/50Master Necrotech Mortenebra (*4pts)
* Cankerworm (5pts)
* Deathripper (4pts)
* Malice (9pts)
* Seether (9pts)
Bile Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts) (5pts)
Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls (2pts)
Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls (2pts)
The Withershadow Combine (5pts)
Pistol Wraith (3pts)
Pistol Wraith (3pts)
Warwitch Siren (2pts)

Not very polished, but pistol wraiths with AD and starting sould make me happy. 2 souls on malice is nice also. Might switch canker for more mechthralls, never used my canker so i wanted to run him here. Sadly Darragh is not part of the Theme list

EDIT: mat 10 move 8 seether seems nice

for non tier nightmare and erabus seems also very good, and deathjack ofc also.

[PG_Tilaurin]

A bit similar to what I'm now thinking.

Off to be distracted by Conquest for a bit...

[Adurot]

Oh, one of the Spoilers I saw only credited him with 3 jack points, not 4. Not sure which is right.

[Canuberon]

3 Would be a real bummer if Vociferon isn't more amazing

[Kuwanger23]

Ashen veil on Satyxis makes them a potential def 18 vs shooting and 16 in combat against living! That is huge! Probably the best unit I can think to put that on. They can have scything touch and after they are done attacking they can get that lol. But def 14 mech thralls is really funny.

[PG_Wankel]

So with 2 upkeeps WSG seems a must, sadly no skarlock or spell slave.

2 focus for mobility + 3 focus for carnage, means you have 2 sapre focus spare for other stuff incluiding upkeeps. cycling spells will be hard.

imo jacks need really to be focus effiecient and need sirens for arc nodes.

But overall i am liking him a lot, a buffing caster for cryx

[Adurot]

I think you're casting Carnage OR Mobility. I doubt you'll be casting both in the same turn too often unless the Souls have been flowing generously. What he needs is a Jr Warcaster to give him Arcane Shield.

[various]

He seems solid enough, although 4 WarJack pts is a bit low. Spell list seems pretty good. Feat seems weird and potentially hit or miss depending on the Faction that you are up against.

[Moak]

I am pretty disappointed that our 3rd incarnation warcaster is just a much worse version of a 2nd incarnation and without any new spells or interesting abilities. Khador, Ret and Menoth all get cav casters which adds to the interest. Colour me unimpressed and i will be sticking to gaspy2.

Al least epic Morvahna looks good so that switch to circle next year looks better

[Adurot]

eLich is a stupidly powerful A++ caster. Expecting 3Lich to be his sheer equal is silly.

[Canuberon]

Equal? Who said anything about equal? We wanted a better 'caster then eLich. He had to have:
Def 17/ARM 20 and Stealth to be survivable
Focus10 to be able to cast a few spells without counting on Soul Cages crap
A combination of his first and second weapon: sustained attack, POW 8 (with his STR11 it could do some dmg) and able to gather souls from all over his control area as a passive ability

And don't get me started on his spell list :P

Serious:
He's not as good as I hoped but definitely playabe.
My main concern is that our last caster (Scaverous) is a very decent toolbox, why did we get another toolbox caster?
I came to the dark side for the cookies and the assassination lists.

[Kuwanger23]

And you have plenty of assassins lol. So don't worry about that angle.

[Gsot]

I think he's a very nice caster, shame he is in an all star lineup of OP casters...

But Cryx inf are some of the best, he supports inf and particular mat 6 stuff which has been a major drawback. He isn't bad with jacks either. He's Cryx's Vindictus, a good all rounder who gives his focus out and supports his army.

Every other Cryx caster is feat based, he has an every turn mini feat of mobility + carnage to let the rest shine every turn.

[Crate123]

No skarlock and meh feat. Im not impressed at all.

[Moak]

I didnt expect him to be better, just that the 3rd level caster should have been interesting and different, such as the new cav casters adds something to khador, ret and menoth that they have never had.

Gaspy 3 just looks boring.

[Lamoron]

I just like looking at the Satyxis Raiders and going... "who likes defense 18, MAT 8, PS 11 weapon masters with 14" charge range and a second attack at doing 3d6+10 if 12.5" is enough to reach them"... I doooooo.

It's annoying not to have the Skarlock available to switch them from Ashen to Scything and back again though.

[SpiderBite]

do not like.

My doom:-I do not like it (this is JUST MY OPINION) because it seems in an extremely anti-infantry expansion, Cryx is being given more options for infantry(we gettin' boned). Denying souls/corpses is just too common a thing nowadays. Anything that relies on souls (Gaspy3/Wraith Engine) or corpses(Kraken) to be marginally decent quickly devolves to worthless. Relying on your opponent's army in order for yours to be effective is planning for failure. Again, this is just my opinion. I will not ragequit, and I will still buy the Kraken.

[Vex]

Do not like. I suspect that he will end up being one of our worst casters, overall.

* Needs to play forward for carnage/feat, but has no notable defenses, and cannot effectively camp focus.
* Soul collection that has skornergy with things like the Kraken and Tartarus.
* Yet another infantry caster, in an expansion that is very anti-infantry. We have a whole stable of these things, and most of them are better than him.
* Feat is poor at best. Any competent opponent should be able to play around it.

He is clearly a huge step down from Gaspy2. Heck, I am not convinced that he is better than Gaspy 1.

[Vex]

I just like looking at the Satyxis Raiders and going... "who likes defense 18, MAT 8, PS 11 weapon masters with 14" charge range and a second attack at doing 3d6+10 if 12.5" is enough to reach them"... I doooooo.

I don't see how they will ever be MAT 8. They are speed 7 and advance deploy. By the time Gaspy3 catches up to them, they will either be dead, or the game will be over.

It's annoying not to have the Skarlock available to switch them from Ashen to Scything and back again though.

I agree with this. I would almost rather have a Skarlock over Vociferon. At least if they kill the Skarlock he will have already done his job. Vociferon has to actually survive first contact with the enemy to be anything other than a pylon.

[Nalik]

do not like.

My doom:-I do not like it (this is JUST MY OPINION) because it seems in an extremely anti-infantry expansion, Cryx is being given more options for infantry(we gettin' boned). Denying souls/corpses is just too common a thing nowadays. Anything that relies on souls (Gaspy3/Wraith Engine) or corpses(Kraken) to be marginally decent quickly devolves to worthless. Relying on your opponent's army in order for yours to be effective is planning for failure. Again, this is just my opinion. I will not ragequit, and I will still buy the Kraken.

+1 (10 characters)

[Canuberon]

And you have plenty of assassins lol. So don't worry about that angle.

I know, I just hoped it wouldn't be a toolbox again. Sorry if that came of as complaining, I love the model, I'm really curious about Vociferon.

[Silopolis]

Getting a little exhausted with the soul-dependence in this army. That said, he looks like fun. Use Mobility to get our high-MAT melee jacks into position and get the alpha strike, then use Carnage to buff up a second wave of Banes/Thralls/Gorgers. Ashen Veil is a great buff for a high-DEF army, and Bone Shaker and spells like it are just fun. The feat seems weird, but hey, free non-kill-dependent souls! I'm not real hyped on Vociferon, though. I'd much rather have the option to pay for a Skarlock and have it casting Hex Blast/Ashen Veil/Scything Touch than have an extended range of Skornergy for our other soul-dependent models.

[eddie]

he will be soul dependent but the fact your feat and your companion helps with the souls is great. You will have a few turns of spamming bone shaker and hex blast. Just because he is soul reliant doesn't mean hes bad or looks unappealing. He just needs you to look at your list and be sure you know what your doing. Tarturas not a great choice. mechanithralls or gerlack? good choice. wraith engine or soul hunters? not the best, boarding crew or raiders? sounds pretty sound

[blakeh1]

Ahen Veil on Satyxis or Erebus or DJ, because why to hell not.

Thats the first thing I thought. Effective DEF 16 Satyxis in melee or even better with the Sea Witch DEF 18 against range attacks that don;t ingore concealment and immunity to blast. I'll take that.

Also effective MAT 8 Banes with Carnage, going up to MAT 10 with Curse

And Hex Blast is nice to have as well.

He's got some good utility spells in his list

[Katkiller 5]

Ok, I don't get the complaining.

You get Mobility. Mobility in Cryx. Speed 9 lights. Speed 8/7 heavies. With Carnage buffing their already high MAT. Ashen Veil on a screening unit of Satyixs. Hex blast stripping off defensive upkeeps. Don't view him as an infantry-spam caster, view him as a fast-moving combined arms caster, with a lean towards helljacks.

He and his UA hide behind jacks, and the souls he gains are used to fuel them as focus. He's definitely a solid warcaster, especially against hordes with the higher spell-casting/fury spending.

[PG_Wankel]

agree 100% with you katkiller. really like he is not like the other cyrx caster.

just one note, the extra speed on arc nodes is not very useful often, because you normally move the node before you activate the caster. but for a 1st turn run or even on other bonjacks its pretty nice.

[Katkiller 5]

agree 100% with you katkiller. really like he is not like the other cyrx caster.

just one note, the extra speed on arc nodes is not very useful often, because you normally move the node before you activate the caster. but for a 1st turn run or even on other bonjacks its pretty nice.

For the arc-nodes, which I don't think he wants more than one or two of, it's more of the pathfinder than the extra movement, but it's never a bad thing to have speed 9 lights moving a stupid distance to get perfect LoS on something.

[Vex]

You get Mobility. Mobility in Cryx. Speed 9 lights. Speed 8/7 heavies. With Carnage buffing their already high MAT. Ashen Veil on a screening unit of Satyixs. Hex blast stripping off defensive upkeeps. Don't view him as an infantry-spam caster, view him as a fast-moving combined arms caster, with a lean towards helljacks.

The trouble is that after casting mobility, allocating focus to one jack, and paying for upkeeps, he is out of focus. Sure, he can get souls from his gimpy skarlock buddy, but probably not enough (or soon enough) to compensate for not having a real skarlock. And I wouldn't count on getting many souls from his feat, unless your opponent is really bad, or if the souls won't matter anyway because they are about to crush your army/caster.

The fact of the matter is that he is a thoroughly average infantry caster in a faction full of great infantry casters.

[SpiderBite]

Ok, I don't get the complaining. . .

(my observations, most likely skewed. skipping what I already posted.)
-we already had quite abit of mobility options to make our 'jacks even faster. (ghost walk, pursuit, soul gate, overrun, spectral steel, terminal velocity, admonition, perdition, infernal machine, telekinesis, power booster. not counting feats to protect them while they run)
-casting mobility & carnage puts him far too close for comfort, and doesnt give him enough focus to run more than one 'jack well
-if you're relying on souls for anything, prepare to be dissapointed. ALOT.
-the feat only works if your opponent lets you, as there are a multitude of options that dont require warbeasts to force to murder you

[Katkiller 5]

(my observations, most likely skewed. skipping what I already posted.)
-we already had quite abit of mobility options to make our 'jacks even faster. (ghost walk, pursuit, soul gate, overrun, spectral steel, terminal velocity, admonition, perdition, infernal machine, telekinesis, power booster. not counting feats to protect them while they run)
-casting mobility & carnage puts him far too close for comfort, and doesnt give him enough focus to run more than one 'jack well
-if you're relying on souls for anything, prepare to be dissapointed. ALOT.
-the feat only works if your opponent lets you, as there are a multitude of options that dont require warbeasts to force to murder you

- excepting terminal velocity, mobility is the only one on that list that benefits the entire battlegroup
- he only really needs to be within 14" of the target(s), and you won't always need carnage. I don't view that as too close for comfort
- given power booster, the withershadow, the deathjack, the seether, cryx has plenty of ways to get more focus to give to jacks
- combining with the above, it is more of a nice bonus that lets you run with more focus on some turns, and he should have no issues hiding behind jacks/satyxis
- if my opponents aren't forcing/casting spells for a turn, i'm quite content that turn

[SpiderBite]

valid points. however.
-your battlegroup is going to be one, maybe two jacks? send them out, what's protecting your caster at that point?
-14" is plenty of range to be murderded by . . . almost anyone
-yes, if you are only playing one list, you can easily load it with all the best things to make up for his disfuncitionality (you can make the Wraith Engine or ILO seem amazing if your list is completely devoted to the task)
-if your opponent is casting in your CTRL, you're about to get deaded. If your opponent if forcing in your CTRL, you're about to get deaded. +1ARM for each force/cast wont save ya

Asphyxious3 is not bad caster! I just dont think he's all that good either. I can never get eSkarre to work right for me though, so if Gaspy3 ends up working for you, great! We'll see. Nothing beats time on the table. I won't counter-argue anymore no sense dragging this thread down like that.

[Katkiller 5]

valid points. however.
-your battlegroup is going to be one, maybe two jacks? send them out, what's protecting your caster at that point?
-14" is plenty of range to be murderded by . . . almost anyone
-yes, if you are only playing one list, you can easily load it with all the best things to make up for his disfuncitionality (you can make the Wraith Engine or ILO seem amazing if your list is completely devoted to the task)
-if your opponent is casting in your CTRL, you're about to get deaded. If your opponent if forcing in your CTRL, you're about to get deaded. +1ARM for each force/cast wont save ya

Asphyxious3 is not bad caster! I just dont think he's all that good either. I can never get eSkarre to work right for me though, so if Gaspy3 ends up working for you, great! We'll see. Nothing beats time on the table. I won't counter-argue anymore no sense dragging this thread down like that.

Also valid points . I don't think he's a great caster, but I do think he's above average. But I do agree, no sense debating a model that isn't on the table yet, which is really the only way to tell how things end up. : )

[Barrynstein]

- excepting terminal velocity, mobility is the only one on that list that benefits the entire battlegroup
- he only really needs to be within 14" of the target(s), and you won't always need carnage. I don't view that as too close for comfort
- given power booster, the withershadow, the deathjack, the seether, cryx has plenty of ways to get more focus to give to jacks
- combining with the above, it is more of a nice bonus that lets you run with more focus on some turns, and he should have no issues hiding behind jacks/satyxis
- if my opponents aren't forcing/casting spells for a turn, i'm quite content that turn

Except that they only need to not be in your control to cast spells or use focus. Any spell that is an aura (dark guidance for example) could be cast outside his control range, then the caster marches/charges into his control range and we do not profit from that. Don't forget all the jacks that get the ability to charge or run for free (Kodiak anyone?). Add to that Skorne, who have a unit that can make nearly every beast in their army charge without being forced and that is not a magical ability - it is just what they do. Compare that to Vlad3 which turns every Cavalry and Jack model in his group into Molik Cairn for a turn, or Kreoss3 who says screw your guys upkeeps and jow here are mine all for free. Wow In a Gaspy3 v. Kreoss3 match up the PoM player is just waiting for your feat turn to remove all your upkeeps and then cast all his upkeeps for free and get the choir buffs in on the action also.
It is less psychological war fare then one might think, and he is going to be highly focus inefficient - as has been mentioned previously. Upkeeping two spells (even with WSC) Means he is starting his turn at 6 focus. If he is going to cast any spells that turn, no focus for the jacks he is bringing (Unless like terminus you just don't really bother to bring much in the way of jacks). If he is lucky, his skarlock survived the previous turn and you maybe get a few souls. Outside of terminus - hell even with Terminus - soul collecting is not as easy as everyone is making it sound.

[BakerGaspy]

- excepting terminal velocity, mobility is the only one on that list that benefits the entire battlegroup
- he only really needs to be within 14" of the target(s), and you won't always need carnage. I don't view that as too close for comfort
- given power booster, the withershadow, the deathjack, the seether, cryx has plenty of ways to get more focus to give to jacks
- combining with the above, it is more of a nice bonus that lets you run with more focus on some turns, and he should have no issues hiding behind jacks/satyxis
- if my opponents aren't forcing/casting spells for a turn, i'm quite content that turn

I have to agree with this. So what if he won't be replacing Gaspy2 or Scaverous in tournament settings because his toolbox is not as powerful. Really he is not a bad caster, perhaps below the A+ casters we already have, but not bad. He has a great model and the ability to run a couple of jacks with our various focus saving abilities (which is why I got into warmachine, the jacks). If anything I am a little disappointed in that he doesn't have any new shiny abilities, but the old ones recycled to him are not bad.

[Vex]

Coven -> +2 SPD and +2 MAT for 1 focus per jack (with perfect conjunction)
Mortenebra -> Terminal Velocity for 3 focus
Gaspy3 -> +2 SPD (with pathfinder) and +2 MAT for 5 focus, and the jack has to be in his control area, and that only leaves him 2 focus for allocation

Gaspy3 is NOT a jack caster.

[Barrynstein]

Coven -> +2 SPD and +2 MAT for 1 focus per jack (with perfect conjunction)
Mortenebra -> Terminal Velocity for 3 focus
Gaspy3 -> +2 SPD (with pathfinder) and +2 MAT for 5 focus, and the jack has to be in his control area, and that only leaves him 2 focus for allocation

Gaspy3 is NOT a jack caster.

+1 to this.

[Crate123]

If he was a new caster, fine. He is one of the original casters and he went from one of the best casters in the entire game to a mediocre caster. Its just a let down.
Ashen Veil and carnage are great, mobility doesnt fit in to that very well IMO.