I like the idea of Iron Fangs, with either UA, as the tarpit of choice. They can Shieldwall up and not worry about slowing down Conquest (ha!). They have a decent DEF and a bonkers high ARM when shieldwalled (especially if you take the Black Dragon UA and Iron Zeal on the key turn) which makes them hard to kill. They're also fairly safe from errant blast damage (which the Conquest pumps out). And best yet, with any of our wonderful faction buffs they also have silly damage output.
A great tactic (in the Dojo, I don't have a Conquest to try yet) is, after having the regular-UA IFP advance and SW every turn, on the key turn charge them in and gang up to get near-guaranteed crits on a couple of targets. Then Reform them beyond the now KD'd models, into Shield Wall. The Conquest walks up behind, shoots at a bunch of KD'd hard targets already softened by the IFP charge, and no worries about the low RAT or even stray AOE damage on the now-SW'd IFP.
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Related to the "screening with infantry" discussion: if you're down to the wire, you can run Mechaniks in front of Conquest, in B2B. Non-reach models can't get to Conquest before killing the Mechaniks, who are DEF 15 against direct attacks (even better if you can scare up something like a Ternion cloud vs. shooting,) and the size of Conquest's base coupled with his poop DEF means that templates smaller than 5" aren't going to touch them.
Not at all "plan A", but a fun thing to have in the back pocket.
With Sylas and Tempest, you actually have a really scary "KD/Feat + boosted Conquest shots" combo that will keep your opponent really honest. Not a lot of casters want to eat a boosted 15, a boosted 12, and then 3 more 12's if you catch them low/without Focus (or strip them with either Eiryss.) Fun stuff.
Neither is better or worse, for the record! I started playing Khador back in the Apotheosis/Superiority days, when Khador's playstyle was much more attrition-y, so running lists like that - which is has been very difficult in Mk. 2, but is more feasible with a model like Conquest - is like going home for me.
Or you can force your opponent to chew through the Iron Fleshed Kayazy, then have to chew through Conquest with what resources they have left.
I'm really looking forward to this approach with Butcher1 (so you can flip the switch and go into "KILL EVERYTHING" mode when they commit,) and probably with Irusk1 as well.
Last edited by OrsusSmash; 06-15-2012 at 02:08 PM.
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I also thought the Battle Engine was pretty reliable for KD , it's no quake via arc node but it's solid enough.
Pretty basic thought here, so excuse the simple nature of this post but what are people feeling is the single most optimal 'caster to run Conquest?
Im leaning towards pVlad for obvious reasons. When you invest 19 points in something you need it to be good at everything. Overkill. Shooting the Main Gun and missing is just a massive waste. pVlad gives you increased accuracy with Signs & Portents. You must get the charge. Forced March gets you up the table. Boundless Charge closes the gap and makes him more efficient.
Pretty straightforward but was curious what you all thought.
I still think Harkevich.
He'll make it better, and it'll make him better.
Force multiplier ftw.
Conquest has slapped: Gorten, Feora, pSevvy, pSkarre
Skorne born on date: 09/2010
so Conquest is FA 2 and you can include him in ANY theme list that allows non character warjacks correct?
Conquest is a huge-based colossal non-character Khadoran warjack. Fit that into any given Theme force using those exact terms.
- Some of our Theme forces call for "Non-Character Khadoran Warjacks", which the Conquest fits into.
- Some call for "Khadoran Heavy Warjacks", which the Conquest does NOT fit into (not being a heavy warjack).
- Some call for "Non-character Khadoran Warjacks with Open Fists" (such as Irusk2's NQ39 "Heavy Armor Battalion"), which the Conquest DOES qualify for.
- Some call for very specific warjacks, such as Butcher1's NQ41 "Claws of the Dragon" calling for "Khadoran warjacks without ranged weapons". This is currently the ONLY theme list we have that the Conquest cannot fit in!
Get the idea?
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Isn't anybody else bugged by this but me?
"Mwa ha ha ha ha! Finally! The conquest is made! Our giant colossal capable of taking out armies!"
"Sir! I have bad news. There at 12 O clock its sighted...."
"Whats sighted? What can be so scary that even us, with out giant robot have to fear it!"
"....GUY WITH METAL SWORDS AND A BUFF ATTACHED!"
"NOOOOO! Those fiends! Even the conquest stands no chance against some guys with sticks! Quick! Send over some back alley thugs to shield it with their bodies!"
It is pretty funny, if you go over to the troll forum they walk about screening mountain king as well.
Signatures take too much space.
I think this is the sign that the game needs revision. MAJOR revision. When colossals need protection from infantry.
I understan that the Stormwall gets by on pure attack power, but that doesn't excuse that just infantry is capable of bringing it down so easily.
Have to agree with Jake , most the colossals are right where they should be (the storm wall might be a bit above but meh it happens ), not unplayable but not pay2win either.
Im not saying pay2win (Even though two defenders will never be taken over stormwall)-
Im saying that this is backwards logic. We are protecting Godzilla from light infantry!
The game at the core is made that the Warnouns need the protection from infantry, and only specific Warnouns are made to deal with infantry (Unless you pull off a trample 1/100 times and without getting hit on the way 3+ times) whilst infantry can deal with other infantry and with concentrated charge attacks and possibly a +3 to damage buff take down warnouns.
Sweep is a joke with its mat 6 and focus point you have to pay to use it.
Seriously? Why aren't power attacks free? I would use them allot more often (Leading to much more interesting games) If they didn't cost more then they are worth.
You are, quite literally, one of only a handful of people to call the Behemoth 'undercosted.' In fact I'd go so far as to say that when compared to the Deathjack it is far from undercosted I don't think the Conquest is a power piece by any means, but I don't think it's an "ILOSE" button either.
Can we please get back to discussing actual tactics instead of complaining about it? There are plenty of threads for non-contributing rants about the uselessness of pieces (and nothing forbids anyone making another lol). This thread is for tactics and uses, not shuffling our feet in the dirt while we mutter about how much our parents, er, Privateer hates us
And I second the motion to get back on topic.
I think the Linked Guns are undervalued. Handgun AoE 3 are useful in practically every game, even if just to take random potshots at Solos/etc. Blast 6 templates are good anti-high Def tools. Blast 6 still kill Arm 12 Targets like a third of the time. Like someone said before, drop them in pairs, stacking on top of each other.
Last edited by Jake the Dog; 06-16-2012 at 12:52 PM.
Well, the squeaky wheel gets the grease as they say.
But this thread was specifically against it so I understand.
Thank you, MP
And Jake, I know comparing to Cryx brings the Cry But I had to point out that Big B is actually a little overcosted compared to the "Big 4" character jacks and what they can all do. Yes, he's better than a Juggy taped together with a Berzerker, but the Avatar/Thunderhead/DJ is better with in-faction buffs etc. I suppose it comes down to those 4 have always been compared to each other in a vacuum, and when you take away the vacuum it gets worse lol. So hearing it called undercosted made the old eyebrows rise up.
As for the POW 12s, I'm hoping eventually we can get a caster with more ranged buffs. Still, I can't wait to have Conquest on Butcher1's feat turn laying down potentially 5 templates of all boostage.
One last thing I will say, and I'm not sure if anyone else has pointed it out, but since you can shoot your own stuff in the back a sacrificial Mechanik or anything else running ahead can help you fish for that critical devastation against enemy forces, even the blast-immune ones. It's not ideal, but it is a tactic to keep in mind if your opponent thinks he's immune to the big gun
Who is Scowling Koldun? So hes some complainy guy?
Oh god! Im have become what I hate! Annoying whiners that complain based around their own view of things!
Last edited by Jake the Dog; 06-16-2012 at 01:00 PM.
I would actually love like an epic harkeveich whose feat turn makes AOE's do full damage in the whole radius.
Edited to be on topic.
Haven't even proxied this guy yet but my initial impulse is that he's a melee beatstick, not so much a shooter...intended to work like harkevich is supposed to, shoot while advancing into melee.
2) It's important when doing a straight comparison to account for what else you could spend the points on - Conquest would have to be at least 5 points overcosted, even by your own accounting, for him to be in *direct* competition with Behemoth - instead, he's in competition with Behemoth and some infantry (or Behemoth and a Berserker, of course).
3) It's also important, as always, to consider the actual warcasters that exist - for example, they're in competition for Strakhov's love, but not Haley's.
4) Black Ivan and some other warjacks are also in competition, potentially, depending on the caster we're discussing.
I just can't come up with a list in which I wouldn't rather drop Conquest for something else at 50 points and less (I haven't tried making 75 point lists), outside of tiers which bar the models I'd rather have.
Yeah I do think Harky's stock rises with this guy. Talk about a jack that hungrily absorbs all the Harkevich has to offer! The more I look at Conquest the more I'm convinced that they listened to their player base and did a battle report with a caster that syncs well with a new jack (as opposed to completely weird non-competitive lists lol).
Scowling Koldun get a temp ban? Oo
I got a temp ban, for being argumentative in a non serious way in the rules forum two years ago. Oo Double infraction from the same thread the day after the posts were made. I cried inside. =/
Mmm, was it a perm ban? Last activity of three months ago. Oo
Last edited by x3tsniper; 06-17-2012 at 08:36 AM.
While that is true, but frontline Infantry making it's way to your Colossus tends to be Arm 13 at the least (WGI), I'd rather think about 14+. Still, they're there, and you should not ignore them, but their use is not as easy as one might think.
What are people's feelings of the MOW shielding the Conquest? They would also sink up nicely with the the Mech with the UA. Plus the shield wall of arm 21 and 8 damage boxes makes them a nice roadblock to the Conquest.
Against ARM 12 target, a single template will kill it at a chance of 58% while double templates overlapping with each other will kill at a chance of 82.3%.Originally Posted by epyonliu
Against ARM 15 (bane thralls) target, a single template will kill at a chance of 16.7% while double templates overlapping with each other will kill at a chance of 30.5%, roughly 1/3. This odds I think is quite nice. Of course there are other killers with even higher ARM, like Errants, bane knights and stuff with Defenders Ward etc but at least we have this defensive mechanism against quite a lot of weapon master infantry units.
Here is an example of how much ground double placed templates can cover against non-reach infantry:
There is only a small portion of the front arc not protected by the templates. Models coming at the extreme angle from either side will be able to make it to Conquest without entering the templates, assuming they are not in your back arc when activates Also you can place the two sets of templates further from each other if there is no infantry model in the middle line of the conquest's front arc, meaning no infantry model can charge into that small gap between two sets of templates.
I don't think Creeping Barrage templates can be placed under Conquest itself, if it says "the templates must be completely within the weapon's range", which I believe is 0" - 12". However if it can do that, then the two sets of templates are enough to cover almost every incoming directions from front.
Again I think using Creeping Barrages to cover your advancing infantry is more rewarding, as discussed above, than protecting Conquest himself. And I don't think "using light infantry to screening colossals" is stupid. They are like heavy tanks anchoring your army, providing support and hammer your opponent when time is right. However IMO they are not necessarily assault machine nor vanguard. Pushing your complete forces forward and applying pressure to your enemy is more like the way I feel comfortable with conquest based army~