Freaking Archangel!

[DrakkenBlut]

First off, YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

We finally have a F****** Dragon. This is a must. So glad a friend introduced me to Hordes. Immediately loved Everblight and this makes me very happy I did. Was thinking that I need to buy more infantry but nah, need this NOW!



Where did you get those horns. I really want to do something special for mt eThag. I already put him on a kick *** base and I might ask PP for a spare set of main Angelius or Archangel wings for him to replace the small ones he has. Those horns you have would look great and to finish it off, some green stuff fire streaking off his Rapture.

Those are GW's Lizardmen Stegadon horns. If you want to really epic Thag a bit more, take GW's Balrog wings instead of the current ones. There is such a conversion on CMON.

Can't wait for Archangel... My plans for the rest of the year: Buy an airbrush, practice on the minis I already have, buy two Archangels, PROFIT!

[ikbuh]

So, GW just drastically increased their prices and I came back here to take a look around. Not only do I find that PP is having an amazing sale (something to hopefully get my play group off their GW kick), but I find this... this beautiful.. thing. It's amazing. It's absolutely amazing!

[dunce002917]

Omg! Bringing the Archangel on the table would make say: "You don't want to wake the Dragon."

And the female warlocks of Everblight shall be called "Khaleesi" lol

I cant wait... Need to work OT to get the Throne and Archangel...

[MinaFangirlOfEverblight]

you mean this thing gets rules in addition to it's sculpt? that's a bonus!

inorite? how can you not want one?

[Kalaris]

#1 I'm actually very pleased with that , (was not a fan of extreme carnivean)

#2 I'm shocked they're actually letting us have a gargantuan, this isn't going to end well for everyone else =P

[Defenstrator]

I don't know about that. The Troll players haven't welcomed there's with completely open arms.

[Crate123]

I don't know about that. The Troll players haven't welcomed there's with completely open arms.

I was designed with this thought in mind "Ok, trollbloods can do some crazy buffing, it will be too powerful. Lets make it expensive and need all those buffs to be worth anywhere near its points, that will be fine".
Everblight isnt known as the buffing faction so I expect ( a little naively) that it will be better on its own than the mountain king.

[SteakAndSpirits]

So does that tail look sufficiently like an Angelius tail for us to begin to tempt fate and hope for AP?

-s&s

[KhisanthMagus]

I was designed with this thought in mind "Ok, trollbloods can do some crazy buffing, it will be too powerful. Lets make it expensive and need all those buffs to be worth anywhere near its points, that will be fine".
Everblight isnt known as the buffing faction so I expect ( a little naively) that it will be better on its own than the mountain king.

The problem is that if they didn't build it with that buffing in mind, troll players would still build their lists using the MK with those buffs because it would make it an unkillable killing machine that nothing can destroy. Can you imagine a MK at base Arm 21 or higher? Can you honestly say that every single troll player wouldn't be bringing that baby with an EBDT and kriel stone bearer to buff it up to the "HAHAHAHA, you can't kill me, even with another colossal/gargantuan, and if you try to I will just heal myself next turn" level? Base PS 22 fists + Rage + KSB(well, at least another MK could kill a MK, even if nothing else could!). A beast that you could transfer 62 damage from your warlock onto?

[Trygle]

The way I see that working is if it had always on AP but lower POW.

But maybe... MAYBE because of it's high points cost...it may have a decently high pow and regular AP.

[Crate123]

The problem is that if they didn't build it with that buffing in mind, troll players would still build their lists using the MK with those buffs because it would make it an unkillable killing machine that nothing can destroy. Can you imagine a MK at base Arm 21 or higher? Can you honestly say that every single troll player wouldn't be bringing that baby with an EBDT and kriel stone bearer to buff it up to the "HAHAHAHA, you can't kill me, even with another colossal/gargantuan, and if you try to I will just heal myself next turn" level? Base PS 22 fists + Rage + KSB(well, at least another MK could kill a MK, even if nothing else could!). A beast that you could transfer 62 damage from your warlock onto?

There are plenty of work arounds PP could have done so this wouldnt be an issue (such as making it immune to animi used by models other than itself). They chose not to think outside the box and produced a 125 dollar model that most of the troll community arent too thrilled about even if it is a beautiful model.

[KhisanthMagus]

The way I see that working is if it had always on AP but lower POW.

But maybe... MAYBE because of it's high points cost...it may have a decently high pow and regular AP.

Hey, Behemoth gets away with decent pow always on AP, why can't our dragon?

There are plenty of work arounds PP could have done so this wouldnt be an issue (such as making it immune to animi used by models other than itself). They chose not to think outside the box and produced a 125 dollar model that most of the troll community arent too thrilled about even if it is a beautiful model.

I think most of this is the same doom and gloom theorymachine that happens when every new unit comes out before people actually have time to test it on the tabletop seriously.

[dunce002917]

If the Dragon Archangel's bite and tail strike are P+S 20+, we might not need AP. anything less than P+S 20 would require AP.

Personally, I can live with:

Bite P+S 21
Tail Strike P+S 20 (* Action AP)

or

Bite P+S 18 AP
Tail Strike P+S 16 AP

what do you guys think?

[Trygle]

If the Dragon Archangel's bite and tail strike are P+S 20+, we might not need AP. anything less than P+S 20 would require AP.

Personally, I can live with:

Bite P+S 21
Tail Strike P+S 20 (* Action AP)

or

Bite P+S 18 AP
Tail Strike P+S 16 AP

what do you guys think?

The first one makes sense if it has a gun.

The latter makes sense if it had decent ranged.

[Crate123]

If the Dragon Archangel's bite and tail strike are P+S 20+, we might not need AP. anything less than P+S 20 would require AP.

Personally, I can live with:

Bite P+S 21
Tail Strike P+S 20 (* Action AP)

or

Bite P+S 18 AP
Tail Strike P+S 16 AP

what do you guys think?

That we will never ever get pow20 AP, not in a million years.

[Trygle]

It might be more likely if we have a melee only Gargantuan.

Reason being because if it is melee only it can more easily be ignored or passed by, and it is vulnerable to free strikes, meaning that it's presence on the field is greatly hampered.

[PG_Vynde]

It might be more likely if we have a melee only Gargantuan.

Reason being because if it is melee only it can more easily be ignored or passed by, and it is vulnerable to free strikes, meaning that it's presence on the field is greatly hampered.

I talked to Will Schick at LnL and he said just imagine what you think a dragon would do on a battlefield(fly around and light stuff on fire) and it does exactly that. Take what you will from his comment lol

[Trygle]

FLYING AROUND

SETTING THINGS ON FIRE AND ****.

word....

[dunce002917]

The first one makes sense if it has a gun.

The latter makes sense if it had decent ranged.

I'm pretty sure Archangel will have Blighted Breathe with Fire Damage. It's just a matter of Spray or a regular range. It will probably have some secondary ranged attack...

I'm thinking like Dhalsim's Yoga Fire (Long Range) and Yoga Flame (short range template).

[SteakAndSpirits]

FLYING AROUND

SETTING THINGS ON FIRE AND ****.

word....

Oh man. I wonder if SPD: 7 is too much to hope for. I mean, it's flying, right? Right?

Heheh. And lighting things on fire. MmmmMmmmm. 10" Spray w/ Cont fire, baby.

-s&s

[dunce002917]

Oh man. I wonder if SPD: 7 is too much to hope for. I mean, it's flying, right? Right?

Heheh. And lighting things on fire. MmmmMmmmm. 10" Spray w/ Cont fire, baby.

-s&s

Spd 7 is doable but I think Spd 5 would be more likely. Since the Archangel would not be placed using slipstream, I'm really hoping for a Spd 7 Dragon... since most likely it would be ARM 18-19, I would like to be able to charge the Colossal or Enemy Gargantuan first and waste to their hopes of winning.

a threat range of 12" charging would be nice or even if it's Spd 5 as long as it's reach is 4" (like the Kraken) I'll be fine with that too..

[Odin1981]

I doubt it is 7" speed even though I wouldn't mind it one bit. I wouldn't be surprised if it was spd 5 at all. I'm personally hoping for a def 9-10 due to tops seeing it at arm 18-19 due to our "tenacity tax" for armor that most/all our warbeasts pay. It also wouldn't suprise me if we have def 10 that we would probably pay for it by being the lowest hit box gargantuan with say 40-45 or so.

I could see the tail strike being around strength 16 ap 4" (our turn only for the 4" range) due to the plethora of harm/incite, manifest, and abby strength type buffs our faction has basically making the tail strike sit at pow 18 ap then (I think ap 20 would probably be too much to ask for base). I'd hope that the bite would sit at ps 20 and likely 4-5 fury depending on it having a chain attack or unique thresher attack. I'd expect it too have a 10" spray with continious fire due to us having ravagores, I just don't see them giving us another 14"+ range type option above pow 15. I wouldn't be suprised if the spray was pow 15-18 range.

On a side note I'd hope that our new version of lylith has parasite again also the archangel with her cause to me at a glance that is really the only thing that would be able to cover her base as far as protecting her goes (also with her even though the thread isn't about her I'd love some of what most people herre are smoking on these boards thinking lylith would be over spd 6, 7 tops if she is a cavalry/be caster sorry to say a huge heavy chariot is not gonna allow 8-9 inches of movement with only 2 reindeer pulling it imho).

[agent red]

Both existing cav battle engines manage to stay on par with their factions cav speed. Considering they're both hauling mobile armored bunkers and artillery pieces, having Lyl's little paddy wagon keep a pace with raptors would make sense. That, and keeping her the same speed mounted as she is on foot would kind of miss the point entirely.

As for the Angel while I'd be disappointed if our sleek flying death machine has the same speed as the lumbering mountain kings and mammoths I wouldn't exactly be surprised.

[R.J.]

Isn't a poison or crit poison tail strike as much a likelihood as an AP star action? Also, crazy animus prediction: enemy models within this model's command range never have Immunity to Fire, lasts one round.

[KhisanthMagus]

Isn't a poison or crit poison tail strike as much a likelihood as an AP star action? Also, crazy animus prediction: enemy models within this model's command range never have Immunity to Fire, lasts one round.

A gargantuan that is only able to do good damage vs living models? Umm, no thanks, I think that would relegate the Archangel to being a very pretty centerpiece on a shelf, not a useful model.

[PG_StarmanTTLB]

P+S 21 bite
P+S 16 tail, *Action AP, 4" during activation
POW 16 SP10 Cont Fire

All of these would also ignore quadrant arc markings, since we aren't talking two sprays, two tails, etc, which makes them more powerful in general.

SP5-6, Flight

I'm hoping for an animus that mimics Dragon Aura somehow - causes terror, shuts down orders, etc within a radius. Having such an ability as always-on is way too much to hope for. Or maybe not - maybe having it cause Terror is its defense against infantry?

An alternate animus is something akin to Force Blast (every model within 2" of the target is pushed back 4" in an order of your choosing). Basically, a wing buffet.

[Episkopos]

Isn't a poison or crit poison tail strike as much a likelihood as an AP star action? Also, crazy animus prediction: enemy models within this model's command range never have Immunity to Fire, lasts one round.

That would kinda suck for being too situational.
How about "Enemy models within this this Model's Command Range lose Immunities and that thing Feora has to keep fire and Corrosion from going out.

The look on any EKreoss player's face if that's true.

[James_Rayner]

Omg! Bringing the Archangel on the table would make say: "You don't want to wake the Dragon."

And the female warlocks of Everblight shall be called "Khaleesi" lol

Mate, I am on a major Game of Thrones hype at the moment and you just made my day, I love you.

[DrakkenBlut]

Scary thought:

Gargantuan+Spiny growth:

A heavy risks a lot taking on such a combo. It takes a lot of hits to down a Garg, and each hit kills some of the heavy. It may find itself with a crippled main weapon/no cortex/an aspect short, mid-activation. That would be enough for the said Garg to live.

This would extend the threat an Archangel poses to a higher level than any other Collossal, regardless of other stats.

[Defenstrator]

That's why I'm expecting our gargantuan to be relatively fragile. With in faction buffs like Spiny Growth and Dracconic Blessing buffing ARM 19 to 23 is relatively straight forward.

[DrakkenBlut]

Actually, with the Stormwall whining and this, I expect more emphasis on removing spells/debuffing generally in the game.

[Ironbite]

Everyone at LnL, that saw the artwork and Sculpt in progress by Brian, were saying they were giong to buy one. Even people that didnt play Legion. Made me laugh. Yes its that awsome.

[SteakAndSpirits]

Dialing in on that 'It does what you expect a Dragon would do' descriptor -- I don't know about you, but when I'm imaging a Dragon flying around and burninator, it sort of happens in a strafing spray like manner that is probably best approximated by Ride-By attacks. I wonder how a 'Fly-by' attack might work out, allowing it to use it's breath weapon en-route, before engaging in melee.

-s&s

[Northern Ronin]

Dialing in on that 'It does what you expect a Dragon would do' descriptor -- I don't know about you, but when I'm imaging a Dragon flying around and burninator, it sort of happens in a strafing spray like manner that is probably best approximated by Ride-By attacks. I wonder how a 'Fly-by' attack might work out, allowing it to use it's breath weapon en-route, before engaging in melee.

-s&s

Easy. Assault. Or the old Fly By Attack of the Harrier in Mark 1.

[PG_StarmanTTLB]

Assault, or possibly Virtuoso or Gunfighter, would let you get some shenanigany spraying-while-engaged going. Khador's Torch has Gunfighter, 2 melee weapons, and a SP6, so the precedent has been set.

[SteakAndSpirits]

Easy. Assault. Or the old Fly By Attack of the Harrier in Mark 1.

I wouldn't mind seeing something that allowed it to make it's Spray attack while it was on its way in. Maybe closer to Assault & Battery. Or some ability that allowed it to pause it's movement/charge, blast the $#&@ out of a line of units, then continue in to continue manical tail thrustings, and teeth chompings.

-s&s

[R.J.]

Assault and Sprint?

[Defenstrator]

It can't Sprint. That would not be normal movement.

[Lanz]

It can't Sprint. That would not be normal movement.

Unless the Archangel can move out of movement.

I think it would be amusing and fitting if the archangel can do something that no other gargantuan/colossal can do.

[Crate123]

We dont really have much that can increase the threatrange of the archangel I guess, so I expect at least 6 and 7 wouldnt be out of the question.