How has eVyros been for you?

[Lord Sessadore]

I've since actually watched the Spoiler video - 5 jack points are confirmed.

Thanks - I've been wondering this so I could enter it in my little stat-writeup-file, but kept forgetting to ask if someone could confirm. Most of the time I'm at a computer I have to keep the sound off, so watching the vids doesn't really help me.

[a spastic ninja]

I've since actually watched the Spoiler video - 5 jack points are confirmed.

Well alrighty then. I suppose I'd just swap out one of the Phoenixs for a Hydra or Daemon then, though I think the Hydra would be better.

[Rampaging Elk]

I ran this list today against an eDoomshaper list with the Mountain King:

eVyros
Pheonix
Hydra X2
Griffon X2
Arcanists X2
Full Sentinels + UA + Soulless
Destor Thane

Summary: Synergy is RIDICULOUSLY good and eVyros may quickly become one of my favorite casters.

I went second. With the tier bonus giving every jack a focus, I was easily able to give the Hydras 2 more each and cast Synergy. Everything else simply ran or advanced, the Sentinels spaced out for the spray from the Mountain King. I didn't bother casting Deflection since the spray was plenty strong to kill with it. On his turn, he killed a few things, then the Sentinels had a Vengeance party with the Fenblades, though they did kill the Thane since I put him out too far. He had positioned well, but I had a good shot at getting Janissa with my Griffon charging through a forest. I rolled double 1s to hit so that failed, but I popped my feat and let him go.

On his next turn, he killed more of my Sentinels, which kept my battlegroup safe with the feat. He did manage to burn through lots of my Sentinels, but the feat made sure I kept one in between his Earthborn and my Pheonix. He trampled over and (thanks to some poor dice) missed two of the three attacks, burning through the force field, but not much else.

I had a TON of options for my fourth turn. I decided to go for a kill with Synergy. I had Vyros and the two Griffons (neither had been killed) melee attack to get Synergy going, though one Griffon missed. The Hydras moved up and punched on the Earthborn, finishing him off after Vyros beat him down with 2 focus. Synergy made it so I didn't have to spend a single focus on either Hydra to kill the Earthborn. The Pheonix charged the caster, but wiffed hitting, so he lived without needing to spend much fury on transfers. The Axer and Mountain King frenzied, he killed my Pheonix, then surrounded his caster with the KSB so he could pass damage to him.

Last turn: I gave three focus to a Griffon. I sliced one of the remaining Fenblades, Quick Worked a shot into one of the KSB. The Hydras shot the other two
, leaving the caster alone. The other Griffon hit the Axer, then the Griffon with three focus walked up and ended the game at MAT 8 and POW 17.

Take aways: Synergy is fantastic. Hydras are golden, especially since they had so much focus stored up when I was going to be low on spreading it out. Griffons were equally awesome, but mostly because of built-in pathfinder and great charges with reach at surprising strength. I may replace the Pheonix with more Griffons (gasp) and it's going to be hard to run this many jacks without tier 4 since the initial benefit really enhances the early game.

I LOVE EPIC VYROS. Can't wait to try him out more.

[Murkhadh]

Got my first game in today with him, it was awesome.

I ran the tier
eVyros
Phoenix
Hydra
2x griffons
sents + UA + Souless
Destors
Thane
2x arcanists

First turn, cast deflection and easy rider feat and charge vyros for extra movement. ( wished I could have cast synergy here but there was lots of rough terrain)

destors run 20 out ahead of vyros but still in control, sents run up ahead of him jacks run up just ahead of him as well.

opponent goes, has lousy decisions to make, he ends up killing a few destors and some sentinels, which let me move the jacks into charge range of his caster.

My turn comes, I use vengeance to clear out some wolves and druids.

I give 3 focus to the phoenix, one focus to a griffon
arcanist gives focus to the other griffon
second arcanist gives damage buff to phoenix

vyros goes casts synergy, charges a wolf, kills it, I forget quickwork to kill another wolf. + 1 synergy

Sentinels go, clear out the rest of the models between the phoenix and their caster except one

griffon goes, charges and kills a druid, + 2 synergy

Hydra goes, shoots last model between phoenix and caster,

griffon2 goes and charges a stray druid and kills em. + 3 synergy.

Now The phoenix goes charges cassius, is mat 9 and pow 22

I rolled well and one shot cassius, I could have bought 2 more attacks.


Closing thoughts:

Synergy is fantastic on a caster with good stats like Vyros, Menoth has a harder time with amon because synergy means you want to play up front but amon has back line stats.

Vyros doesn't have that problem.

Think I'm going to take the Hydra out and get 2 more griffons or another phoenix. The Hydra did okay but I feel like this list wants long range melee to take full advantage of synergy.

The list also feels like it wants to ram everything down your opponents throat before they get very far from their deployment zone, The Hydra doesn't do this as well as I think another phoenix or 2 more griffons would.

[RetributionBomb]

Got my first game in today with him, it was awesome.

destors run 20 out ahead of vyros but still in control, sents run up ahead of him jacks run up just ahead of him as well.

Er wait. I know the theme list gives +2 SPD but I thought you multiple (run) then add, so the farthest they can run is 18 inches. Am I wrong? (Not trying to take away from your win, awesome job, glad to see eVyros do good for you!)

Also did you feel the Destors were good/ok with the Speed Boost and the Price Reduction? Are they worth 6/10 pts?

[Cyryst]

Im angling to get a game in tonight or this weekend with the following list

eVyros
Griffon
Griffon
Griffon
Griffon
Sphinx
Sylys Wyshnalyrr
Dawnguard Sentinels (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard
Arcanist
Arcanist
Lanyssa Ryssyll,

It might get bumped up to 50 points. Hopefully post back soon!

[NEoJoe]

It's about +SPD vs + inches of movement. +SPD is added to the speed stat, which means when you run it is multiplied with the rest. +Movement is extra distance you move when you use your movement during your activation. There's a better way to word it, it isn't applied to beat-back and such.

Murk is doing it right. And I sincerely hope they're worth it with those bonuses

[Rogue Sun]

Er wait. I know the theme list gives +2 SPD but I thought you multiple (run) then add, so the farthest they can run is 18 inches. Am I wrong? (Not trying to take away from your win, awesome job, glad to see eVyros do good for you!)

Also did you feel the Destors were good/ok with the Speed Boost and the Price Reduction? Are they worth 6/10 pts?

It's double because the tier says it adds +2 to SPD. Not +2" of movement. So whereas a spell like Mobility says +2 SPD and allows a griffon to run 16", if you were to use the fleet ability on that same griffon it could only go 18" as fleet says it adds +2" of movement.

Also curious what you thought of the Destors, Murk. I keep thinking 1 full unit just isn't enough for his feat, but don't want to go overboard on them because, well, they're Destors.

EDIT: Joe Ninja'd me!

[PG_kerensky]

Note buddy: your list came to 54p, I'm going to try same list and add in a 2nd soulless. Debating swapping out 2nd Hydra for combination of Aspis/3rd Griffon/2nd destor thane.

[Rampaging Elk]

Interesting how your approach was so different from mine, Murk. The Hydras for me made it so I could make them come to me, and the focus I stored up with them was really useful later in the game. I can see how the Destors would be useful, though, stuffing up the lane and just being unignorable obstructions. Do they really pose enough of a threat to make them a good target? Just seems like they could be easy for the other guy to kind of go around. I liked the Sentinels since they were far enough up with plenty of threat to make them a very menacing tarpit.

[NEoJoe]

Interesting how your approach was so different from mine, Murk. The Hydras for me made it so I could make them come to me, and the focus I stored up with them was really useful later in the game. I can see how the Destors would be useful, though, stuffing up the lane and just being unignorable obstructions. Do they really pose enough of a threat to make them a good target? Just seems like they could be easy for the other guy to kind of go around. I liked the Sentinels since they were far enough up with plenty of threat to make them a very menacing tarpit.

It's seeming like eVyros will be doing multiple things for a while, but Murk's idea is a cool one because we can already field several lists that shoot you till you come at us. Murk using him to shove stuff into the opponent's face at breakneck speed and giving them all kinds of rough decisions until he sweeps in and destroys everything is very, very different for Retribution, as a faction.

[Rogue Sun]

It also is extremely effective at taking down ELylyth. It forces her to use feat first turn or risk not getting to use it at all, and with Deflection and a healthy focus camp, Vyros should hardly be scratched when the dust settles. If your opponent instead tries to kill your army then the feat starts triggering and ties up the shooting units. It's a lose/lose for her.

[Mastershake]

I'll be honest, at this point, I'm actually not liking heavies with eVyros. Multiple Aspis and Griffons with Synergy have been really solid and still capable of some impressive hitting power at a fraction the cost and the frequency with which I find myself needing guns/arc nodes is really low.

The tier list feels like a sprint whereas non-tier lets you take some models that get really amazing with him (Narn, Skereth and MHAs all love feat repositioning) but also lacks the shock and awe factor. At this point, still messing around to see which one I like the best, but when I can get 5 quality lights for 20pts as opposed to 2 heavies, the heavies are a hard sell especially when Synergy closes the hitting power gap so fast.

His tier list has given me a health respect for the Destor unit...is what I would be saying if I lived on mars. They get in the way pretty well and the extra SPD from tier is stellar for first turn jams, but in non-tier they lack the shock factor and have some embarassingly light damage for such a high point investment.

[Bartacus]

Really excited by the lists/comments you have posted above, cannot wait to get him on the table.

A few questions if you don't mind:

How do you feel about the feat now with some games behind you? The initial 'pro' view was it should give your opponent some difficult choices and enable you to set up good positions to capitalise on. The con view was pretty much 'meh'. From what you've posted it seems to work very nicely with synergy for setting up game-clinching situations.

If you had a 2 caster tournie tomorrow would eVyros be one of your picks and who would you pair him with?

Would you go theme or standard list in the tournie?

[Dubstep]

The feat still isn't game breaking in my opinion, but its not as bad as we origionally thought. It allows for a deadly counterstrike from angles your opponent doesnt see coming.

I would run Kae behind eV. Not for any reason in particular, but just because she can take on hordes well and now any player who picks colossals will cry... deeply...

I play eV more assasination oriented, with he himself doing the assasintion. On feat turn i can position him in a way that the only thing between him and the caster is 3-4 small based models. With the arcanists powering the griffions and the hydras powering themselves, I can charge through the small based models (i have yet to roll snake eyes to hit/damage) right to their caster with 5 focus left and a whole lotta synergistic death incoming.

Another way he can be played is attrition with a light side of assasination, where you use non-hydra heavies and use them to take out key peices and lots of infantry. Very effective, and it helps that eV is even MORE tough than pV.

And lastly, he can be played with infantry spam. His buffs are exactly what our side needs. I played him with two full sent units, and put them around an artificer, boosting their def to 16. Widowmakers cry.

[Murkhadh]

Er wait. I know the theme list gives +2 SPD but I thought you multiple (run) then add, so the farthest they can run is 18 inches. Am I wrong? (Not trying to take away from your win, awesome job, glad to see eVyros do good for you!)

Also did you feel the Destors were good/ok with the Speed Boost and the Price Reduction? Are they worth 6/10 pts?

If its speed they would get to run 20 its its movement it would be 18, I thought it was speed.

Yes I thougth they were worth their points, if my opponent didn't kill them, they would have gotten to aim and each fire twice. He spent significant resources killing them which meant he had griffons and a phoenix and sentinels in his face. The combo of them being cheaper and the extra speed turn one is what made them worth it to me. I don't know that I would take them outside of the tier.

[Rogue Sun]

His tier list has given me a health respect for the Destor unit...is what I would be saying if I lived on mars. They get in the way pretty well and the extra SPD from tier is stellar for first turn jams, but in non-tier they lack the shock factor and have some embarassingly light damage for such a high point investment.

So general consensus thus far is that in tier Destors are actually worth it for putting pressure on your opponent from turn 1? But outside of tier you're still not likely to see any use of them?

I get my first games with him tonight, and I'm planning on using tier lists as well, so I'll be posting here and a few other spots reporting my findings.

[Murkhadh]

Interesting how your approach was so different from mine, Murk. The Hydras for me made it so I could make them come to me, and the focus I stored up with them was really useful later in the game. I can see how the Destors would be useful, though, stuffing up the lane and just being unignorable obstructions. Do they really pose enough of a threat to make them a good target? Just seems like they could be easy for the other guy to kind of go around. I liked the Sentinels since they were far enough up with plenty of threat to make them a very menacing tarpit.

Double Hydra's "may" have been able to force them to come to me a little more, but I don't see it as worth the points. This is a common tactic legion uses with ravagores, but ravagores drop templates and light things on fire as well, way more threatening.

My hydra missed one of the two shots it took and then was out of melee threat range when I wanted to be clearing space to kill the caster.

[Murkhadh]

So general consensus thus far is that in tier Destors are actually worth it for putting pressure on your opponent from turn 1? But outside of tier you're still not likely to see any use of them?

I get my first games with him tonight, and I'm planning on using tier lists as well, so I'll be posting here and a few other spots reporting my findings.

Do exactly that, try it, I think what makes the destors worth it is the speed 10 first turn so your jamming your opponent not far from his deployment zone, I think if they aren't doing that, they aren't as cool.

[Murkhadh]

I'll be honest, at this point, I'm actually not liking heavies with eVyros. Multiple Aspis and Griffons with Synergy have been really solid and still capable of some impressive hitting power at a fraction the cost and the frequency with which I find myself needing guns/arc nodes is really low.

The tier list feels like a sprint whereas non-tier lets you take some models that get really amazing with him (Narn, Skereth and MHAs all love feat repositioning) but also lacks the shock and awe factor. At this point, still messing around to see which one I like the best, but when I can get 5 quality lights for 20pts as opposed to 2 heavies, the heavies are a hard sell especially when Synergy closes the hitting power gap so fast.

His tier list has given me a health respect for the Destor unit...is what I would be saying if I lived on mars. They get in the way pretty well and the extra SPD from tier is stellar for first turn jams, but in non-tier they lack the shock factor and have some embarassingly light damage for such a high point investment.

I pretty much agree with this, After only one game, I'm already pulling one of the two heavies out for 2 more griffons or maybe I'll do one griffon and one aspis (I only have one aspis right now) and yea I don't think I would take the destors outside of the theme force, I don't think I will like them If I'm 'not able to run them 20 inches first turn and then have to pay one more point for them.

One of the matchups I have in mind for this list is eLylth, I could see this working well against her because the destors get in her face fast and if she shoots a destor or something, now I'm shoving a different destor in her face, while my speedy griffons etc are advancing to her. I think I can also keep her so jammed I can grab scenario points.


I'm going to keep the phoenix around a little while longer, Mainly for combustion, I'm a little worried about things like iron fleshed kayazay, super high defense. I didn't' find I needed the gun or arcnode at all 11 inch threat range pow 17 base and combustion are where the phoenix made his money.

But he just feels like he wants all of those lights.

The only reason I havn't tossed aspis in yet is I have been liking the threat range of griffons and the phoenix. But yea narn Skeryth and Mha would all be amazing getting shuffled around as well.

[Murkhadh]

The feat still isn't game breaking in my opinion, but its not as bad as we origionally thought. It allows for a deadly counterstrike from angles your opponent doesnt see coming.

I would run Kae behind eV. Not for any reason in particular, but just because she can take on hordes well and now any player who picks colossals will cry... deeply...

I play eV more assasination oriented, with he himself doing the assasintion. On feat turn i can position him in a way that the only thing between him and the caster is 3-4 small based models. With the arcanists powering the griffions and the hydras powering themselves, I can charge through the small based models (i have yet to roll snake eyes to hit/damage) right to their caster with 5 focus left and a whole lotta synergistic death incoming.

Another way he can be played is attrition with a light side of assasination, where you use non-hydra heavies and use them to take out key peices and lots of infantry. Very effective, and it helps that eV is even MORE tough than pV.

And lastly, he can be played with infantry spam. His buffs are exactly what our side needs. I played him with two full sent units, and put them around an artificer, boosting their def to 16. Widowmakers cry.

I think the feat is amazing, we have so many things that can really lay the hurt down and getting them into range when the opponent wasn't planning for it is awesome.

Also imagine your opponent is trying to clear a zone for a point, he kills something, you move something else in, rinse repeat, watch how mad he gets when you start doing that, it will be funny.

[Murkhadh]

NeoJoe, your inbox is full

[Lord Sessadore]

Got my first game in with Vyros2 last night. Only 25 points because I didn't have much time, but it was a blast!

Vyros2
* Phoenix
* Griffon
* Griffon
Max Sentinels + UA
Arcanist

I realized after the game was done that this was in tier and the sentinels should have gotten advance deploy. Oh well. Up against:

Madrak1
* Axer
* Impaler
* Impaler
Max Champs
Max KSB + UA

Plain caster kill. I went first, cast synergy (upkept the whole game) and deflection and ran everything up with one griffon on either flank, one hiding behind a forest. He ran up as well.

Turn 2 I ran the standard bearer right into his face, another sentinel a couple inches behind, and the rest far enough back that the champs wouldn't be able to charge them. Advanced everything else a little bit, popped feat.

He killed my two sacrificial sentinels with impalers and Madrak and moved the champs up conservatively. With the feat I moved forward a couple of sentinels that were off towards the flank who would've been out of charge range. Should've moved the Phoenix up instead of the 2nd sent, would've let me take a run at a synergy assassination turn 3. As it was, Phoenix was probably 11.5-12" from Madrak after turn 2.

Sentinels charged. One nearly killed a champ (7 damage vs. ARM 20, higher than average), a second failed his charge on an impaler by about 1/4", and four more took down the axer. The remaining three sentinels and officer hung back. Vyros did a ride-by to shoot and hit the damaged champ but I didn't boost damage so he lived. The rest of the battlegroup formed up to be ready to charge next turn, Phoenix lit an impaler and two champs on fire with his cannon.

Madrak popped his feat (which I'd forgotten he hadn't used yet), cast carnage, and munched two of the sentinels that killed the axer, but one of his attacks came up snake eyes so he had to spend his last fury to buy an attack. The impaler next to him killed another sentinel and used overtake to try to get to the last one, but was just out. This was good - that last sentinel was engaging 3 of his champs, so that kept them from charging my battlegroup. The champs took down the last three sentinels that were engaging his lines, then the impaler killed another sentinel that was hanging back.

Turn 4 I upkept synergy, gave one focus to each griffon, and had arcanist power boost the Phoenix. I had to think about whether I wanted the Phoenix or Vyros to finish the synergy chain and take down Madrak, but I settled on Vyros - free charge, and even with MAT 9 the Phoenix would be needing 7's to hit Madrak, which would seriously cut into the number of attacks I could put on him. So V kept 3. The sentinels vengeanced and charged doing a bit of damage to an impaler and some champs, but that was mostly just to get them out of the way. One griffon charged a champ that was outside of surefoot to get synergy started, hit. 2nd Griffon charged Madrak and hit, but did I think 1 point of damage. Phoenix charged Madrak and hit needing 8's (this was the long shot of the run), and he used the scroll instead of taking a dice +1 damage roll. Then Vyros charged, hit with his MAT 13 P+S 17 charge attack doing 9 damage. Bought another and hit needing 5's, damage roll came up 11 - game over with 2 focus left on V.

Thoughts: My opponent apparently forgot that Vyros and his battlegroup ignore models for LOS and so left Madrak in charge range with no fury. He did set an impaler and champ B2B in front of him, which would have stopped the Griffon charge on him and would have forced the Phoenix to charge a champ instead of Madrak to clear LOS for Vyros and make things much dicier for him ... but I didn't have to worry about that. If Madrak had been too far away for an assassination run that turn I'm not sure how things would have turned out - he was definitely ahead in the attrition game, having only lost an axer to my 9 sentinels, though my entire battlegroup was undamaged and one of his impalers was about half dead. The KSB was very annoying this game because I essentially had nothing to take them out - 2 RNG 10 guns, which would sit me about 6-7" in front of his champs.

I also think I popped the feat too early - he only had 3-4 ranged attacks in his list (2 impalers plus Madrak with snap fire), and most of my army was way out of his charge threat. Should have saved it for turn 3 when I engaged him. Never cast twister or LtT or easy rider (only rough terrain was a couple of forests that were easy to avoid). Synergy makes Vyros and his jacks the monsters that I always wanted them to be.

[Murkhadh]

It also is extremely effective at taking down ELylyth. It forces her to use feat first turn or risk not getting to use it at all, and with Deflection and a healthy focus camp, Vyros should hardly be scratched when the dust settles. If your opponent instead tries to kill your army then the feat starts triggering and ties up the shooting units. It's a lose/lose for her.

Yep, exactly this, she has to either deal with the destors or they are attacking next turn, or deal with the sents which means the destors jacks are on her next turn, or only deal with some of the sents, great vengeance triggers etc etc.

[Murkhadh]

Got my first game in with Vyros2 last night. Only 25 points because I didn't have much time, but it was a blast!

Vyros2
* Phoenix
* Griffon
* Griffon
Max Sentinels + UA
Arcanist

I realized after the game was done that this was in tier and the sentinels should have gotten advance deploy. Oh well. Up against:

Madrak1
* Axer
* Impaler
* Impaler
Max Champs
Max KSB + UA

Plain caster kill. I went first, cast synergy (upkept the whole game) and deflection and ran everything up with one griffon on either flank, one hiding behind a forest. He ran up as well.

Turn 2 I ran the standard bearer right into his face, another sentinel a couple inches behind, and the rest far enough back that the champs wouldn't be able to charge them. Advanced everything else a little bit, popped feat.

He killed my two sacrificial sentinels with impalers and Madrak and moved the champs up conservatively. With the feat I moved forward a couple of sentinels that were off towards the flank who would've been out of charge range. Should've moved the Phoenix up instead of the 2nd sent, would've let me take a run at a synergy assassination turn 3. As it was, Phoenix was probably 11.5-12" from Madrak after turn 2.

Sentinels charged. One nearly killed a champ (7 damage vs. ARM 20, higher than average), a second failed his charge on an impaler by about 1/4", and four more took down the axer. The remaining three sentinels and officer hung back. Vyros did a ride-by to shoot and hit the damaged champ but I didn't boost damage so he lived. The rest of the battlegroup formed up to be ready to charge next turn, Phoenix lit an impaler and two champs on fire with his cannon.

Madrak popped his feat (which I'd forgotten he hadn't used yet), cast carnage, and munched two of the sentinels that killed the axer, but one of his attacks came up snake eyes so he had to spend his last fury to buy an attack. The impaler next to him killed another sentinel and used overtake to try to get to the last one, but was just out. This was good - that last sentinel was engaging 3 of his champs, so that kept them from charging my battlegroup. The champs took down the last three sentinels that were engaging his lines, then the impaler killed another sentinel that was hanging back.

Turn 4 I upkept synergy, gave one focus to each griffon, and had arcanist power boost the Phoenix. I had to think about whether I wanted the Phoenix or Vyros to finish the synergy chain and take down Madrak, but I settled on Vyros - free charge, and even with MAT 9 the Phoenix would be needing 7's to hit Madrak, which would seriously cut into the number of attacks I could put on him. So V kept 3. The sentinels vengeanced and charged doing a bit of damage to an impaler and some champs, but that was mostly just to get them out of the way. One griffon charged a champ that was outside of surefoot to get synergy started, hit. 2nd Griffon charged Madrak and hit, but did I think 1 point of damage. Phoenix charged Madrak and hit needing 8's (this was the long shot of the run), and he used the scroll instead of taking a dice +1 damage roll. Then Vyros charged, hit with his MAT 13 P+S 17 charge attack doing 9 damage. Bought another and hit needing 5's, damage roll came up 11 - game over with 2 focus left on V.

Thoughts: My opponent apparently forgot that Vyros and his battlegroup ignore models for LOS and so left Madrak in charge range with no fury. He did set an impaler and champ B2B in front of him, which would have stopped the Griffon charge on him and would have forced the Phoenix to charge a champ instead of Madrak to clear LOS for Vyros and make things much dicier for him ... but I didn't have to worry about that. If Madrak had been too far away for an assassination run that turn I'm not sure how things would have turned out - he was definitely ahead in the attrition game, having only lost an axer to my 9 sentinels, though my entire battlegroup was undamaged and one of his impalers was about half dead. The KSB was very annoying this game because I essentially had nothing to take them out - 2 RNG 10 guns, which would sit me about 6-7" in front of his champs.

I also think I popped the feat too early - he only had 3-4 ranged attacks in his list (2 impalers plus Madrak with snap fire), and most of my army was way out of his charge threat. Should have saved it for turn 3 when I engaged him. Never cast twister or LtT or easy rider (only rough terrain was a couple of forests that were easy to avoid). Synergy makes Vyros and his jacks the monsters that I always wanted them to be.

The other cool part about the tier, jacks get focus first turn, this helps you get the ball rolling.

[Murkhadh]

It's seeming like eVyros will be doing multiple things for a while, but Murk's idea is a cool one because we can already field several lists that shoot you till you come at us. Murk using him to shove stuff into the opponent's face at breakneck speed and giving them all kinds of rough decisions until he sweeps in and destroys everything is very, very different for Retribution, as a faction.

Yea I love the change of pace, Shoving something down my opponents throat first turn is a very very different way to play ret for me.

I'm seeing lots of other great things to do with eVyros outside of the tier, but I"m going to stick with the tier for a while just because this different way of playing ret is a lot of fun for me. and I want to smash Lylyth a few times. I have so much Legion in my meta its crazy.

[Lord Sessadore]

The other cool part about the tier, jacks get focus first turn, this helps you get the ball rolling.

True, though I'd have had to drop a Griffon for a Thane to get to T4 - my list only qualified for T2. I think at 25 points I'd settle for T2. The list performed well in my opinion, and having that extra +1 from Synergy can go a long way.

Definitely going to need to pick up a 2nd griffon before Vyros2 is released.

[Rampaging Elk]

In a two list format, I think I'd take Ravyn as the second list, though I think you could take any of our casters except pVyros to compliment eVyros. I just love playing Ravyn. Really, I think eVyros brings something very different to the army, especially since Destors actually make sense and can brick up so well. Can't wait to try them next week, though I'm not sure how I'd fit them in at 35 points. Gotta play around with the lists at that level some more.

Another point is that while MHA's, Narn etc. would love his feat, I just can't imagine going out of tier for it since the tier list enables Vyros to really put on some crazy pressure and roll up fast. Not to mention that I personally think Synergy is a bigger deal than his feat. I still think it would have been great if the feat ignored free strikes, but as it is with Vyros as he is, I'm much more pleased with it than I initially expected.

Now what would be bad match ups for eVyros? I'm thinking that armies with lots of stuff that can hit harder than our stuff will be a hard match up, or lots of tough? I can't think of anything that'll directly counter it off hand.

[Mastershake]

I pretty much agree with this, After only one game, I'm already pulling one of the two heavies out for 2 more griffons or maybe I'll do one griffon and one aspis (I only have one aspis right now) and yea I don't think I would take the destors outside of the theme force, I don't think I will like them If I'm 'not able to run them 20 inches first turn and then have to pay one more point for them.

One of the matchups I have in mind for this list is eLylth, I could see this working well against her because the destors get in her face fast and if she shoots a destor or something, now I'm shoving a different destor in her face, while my speedy griffons etc are advancing to her. I think I can also keep her so jammed I can grab scenario points.


I'm going to keep the phoenix around a little while longer, Mainly for combustion, I'm a little worried about things like iron fleshed kayazay, super high defense. I didn't' find I needed the gun or arcnode at all 11 inch threat range pow 17 base and combustion are where the phoenix made his money.

But he just feels like he wants all of those lights.

The only reason I havn't tossed aspis in yet is I have been liking the threat range of griffons and the phoenix. But yea narn Skeryth and Mha would all be amazing getting shuffled around as well.

My experience has been that his feat is a great positioning tool, but more often than not Vyros himself even with a Synergy chain seems like an unnecessary risk, so at this point I'm thinking the non-tier could have some stellar assassination potential especially with extras like Corbeau and a Magister (and as a side effect Corbeau gets V up to CMD 11 for the MHAs and Skereth). I had a lot of opportunities during the game where I debated throwing in Vyros, but waved off because throwing casters at casters gambles too much, so in the end I killed the caster with a ride by attack followed by beating him into paste with Sentinels in his DZ on turn 3. That being said, I did repeatedly have opportunities where the pair Aspis with beat back and marginal focus could've openend a lane for literally anything which is really making me want to try the non-tier with all the high threat stuff.

[Murkhadh]

True, though I'd have had to drop a Griffon for a Thane to get to T4 - my list only qualified for T2. I think at 25 points I'd settle for T2. The list performed well in my opinion, and having that extra +1 from Synergy can go a long way.

Definitely going to need to pick up a 2nd griffon before Vyros2 is released.

I have two, I bought a 3rd last night and will probably get a 4th.

[Murkhadh]

My experience has been that his feat is a great positioning tool, but more often than not Vyros himself even with a Synergy chain seems like an unnecessary risk, so at this point I'm thinking the non-tier could have some stellar assassination potential especially with extras like Corbeau and a Magister (and as a side effect Corbeau gets V up to CMD 11 for the MHAs and Skereth). I had a lot of opportunities during the game where I debated throwing in Vyros, but waved off because throwing casters at casters gambles too much, so in the end I killed the caster with a ride by attack followed by beating him into paste with Sentinels in his DZ on turn 3. That being said, I did repeatedly have opportunities where the pair Aspis with beat back and marginal focus could've openend a lane for literally anything which is really making me want to try the non-tier with all the high threat stuff.

I definitely see your point, the game I played I used him early in the synergy chain on a model that was pretty close to him, I did a ride by, killed it and backed up.

[Lord Sessadore]

The biggest potential problem I forsee with Vyros2 is if you depend too much on Synergy to crack armor and come up against a list chock full of high armor. This could force you to commit your jacks to melee in order to make use of Synergy to kill some stuff, but if you don't kill enough and they retaliate and kill a bunch of those jacks you lose a lot of the threat of Synergy.

This is why I'm intending to hurl in infantry first (probably Sentinels most/all of the time) to soften things up and/or kill key pieces before committing the battlegroup to melee. Synergy is IMO his biggest threat, so when you commit your battlegroup you need to make sure it either wins the game or cripples your opponent enough that they can't destroy your battlegroup in turn. Having some ranged options in there (Stormfalls would be a really good option since they can combat stealth/high DEF as well) to soften things up early will be a good idea as well, I think.

[FearLord]

Another point to keep in mind is this that the Forcefield Mechanic really shines when sending a reliable jack in for the kill - if you're sending it in for the kill and there's no way of getting there without taking a freestrike, no jack in the game has a better chance of getting through without losing a system than an undamaged Shyeel jack, since it takes a very big first hit to actually take out any systems...

I think the reasons for going outside the tier list are threefold right now:

1) Aggressive "kill" pieces like MHA's, Narn, Skerth Issyen, etc - mitigated slightly by the fact that even a humble Griffon can be a stone cold killer at the end of Synergy chain, but the "target saturation" style of playing Retribution is well known, and there is something delicious about the though of my opponent trying to go for my MHA's when really he should be watching the Griffons...

2) Support pieces - there are lots of good models outside the tier that can help the battle group make the most of Synergy - these are mostly movement effects - Magisters (pulls, Whip Snap), Lynssa (Hunters Mark is great for Griffons, and if all you want is to build synergy, you can pick targets of opportunity) and Maderline (makes Vyros himself a slippery assassin)... But Sylys Wyshnaylor seems highly useful as well, as FOCUS 6 seems like the only hard limit for Synergy (aside from your own willingness to take jacks) so anything that can help with this looks golden (thank goodess arcanists are available in tier!).

3) Vyre Jacks - not the end of the World, and my opinion of Hypnos outside of Ossyan hasn't changed, but the Banshee has always been nifty with Birds Eye (and the feat can help it get a cheeky aiming bonus) and its no slouch in melee either, the Sphinx has the honor of being our cheapest heavy and is only out threated by the Phoenix and even the Daemon is capable of some interesting things with him thanks to Birds Eye (and Synergy + Blessed is actually quite powerful vs casters that rely on their spell buffs to protect themselves and their models...)

That said, the tier list does look really good and I'm liking the cheap fast Destors and the pressure that Advance Deploying Sentinels and a free run (free focus) for the jacks gives you... I don't currently own Destors however, and I'm not sure at the moment whether I like it enough to make that particular purchase...

[FearLord]

My experience has been that his feat is a great positioning tool, but more often than not Vyros himself even with a Synergy chain seems like an unnecessary risk.

I get this sentiment, but sometimes its going to be the best move. As someone who uses eStryker more than any other caster, I feel confident using this style of play (and MAT + Synergy Bonus actually makes it far more reliable in the first place).

As always, only commit your caster if you have to, but don't be afraid to commit him to win the game.

[Murkhadh]

Another point to keep in mind is this that the Forcefield Mechanic really shines when sending a reliable jack in for the kill - if you're sending it in for the kill and there's no way of getting there without taking a freestrike, no jack in the game has a better chance of getting through without losing a system than an undamaged Shyeel jack, since it takes a very big first hit to actually take out any systems...

I think the reasons for going outside the tier list are threefold right now:

1) Aggressive "kill" pieces like MHA's, Narn, Skerth Issyen, etc - mitigated slightly by the fact that even a humble Griffon can be a stone cold killer at the end of Synergy chain, but the "target saturation" style of playing Retribution is well known, and there is something delicious about the though of my opponent trying to go for my MHA's when really he should be watching the Griffons...

2) Support pieces - there are lots of good models outside the tier that can help the battle group make the most of Synergy - these are mostly movement effects - Magisters (pulls, Whip Snap), Lynssa (Hunters Mark is great for Griffons, and if all you want is to build synergy, you can pick targets of opportunity) and Maderline (makes Vyros himself a slippery assassin)... But Sylys Wyshnaylor seems highly useful as well, as FOCUS 6 seems like the only hard limit for Synergy (aside from your own willingness to take jacks) so anything that can help with this looks golden (thank goodess arcanists are available in tier!).

3) Vyre Jacks - not the end of the World, and my opinion of Hypnos outside of Ossyan hasn't changed, but the Banshee has always been nifty with Birds Eye (and the feat can help it get a cheeky aiming bonus) and its no slouch in melee either, the Sphinx has the honor of being our cheapest heavy and is only out threated by the Phoenix and even the Daemon is capable of some interesting things with him thanks to Birds Eye (and Synergy + Blessed is actually quite powerful vs casters that rely on their spell buffs to protect themselves and their models...)

That said, the tier list does look really good and I'm liking the cheap fast Destors and the pressure that Advance Deploying Sentinels and a free run (free focus) for the jacks gives you... I don't currently own Destors however, and I'm not sure at the moment whether I like it enough to make that particular purchase...

I already own destors and am thrilled my 100 bucks is finally seeing the table lol

[FearLord]

I already own destors and am thrilled my 100 bucks is finally seeing the table lol

Yeah, if I had them, I'd certainly be playing them with him (in the tier). As is, I see what they can do, but on the other hand, I see stuff for all of the other stuff I already have that I don't need to buy... (apart from Griffons - I need more Griffons stat - I should actually order some now before the rush - I suspect that there will be a shortage once he actually gets released!)

Not sure I've been this excited for the release of a new caster in a while actually... I literally cannot wait to see the model...

[Murkhadh]

Yeah, if I had them, I'd certainly be playing them with him (in the tier). As is, I see what they can do, but on the other hand, I see stuff for all of the other stuff I already have that I don't need to buy... (apart from Griffons - I need more Griffons stat - I should actually order some now before the rush - I suspect that there will be a shortage once he actually gets released!)

Not sure I've been this excited for the release of a new caster in a while actually... I literally cannot wait to see the model...

I haven't been this excited for a model yet either, I love how different he plays than everything we have so far.

[Rampaging Elk]

I'm really pumped to get him assembled and painted up. I think he brings in some amazing options for the faction.

I agree with some of the points about going out of tier, all except the Vyre jacks. I think if it comes down to it, while the Banshee gun would be useful, I'd rather take a Griffon over a Sphinx and a Hydra over a Daemon, and the Pheonix offers some very useful utility the Banshee doesn't. Never thought I'd say that, but for him, I think it works. Lanyssa and other solos are attractive, though. I think if you're just playing killbox, you can easily get away with running those guys and being happy, but the tier bonuses help Vyros' army jam up there so fast that it's difficult to consider giving them up when you have scenarios.

[magi]

So, this thread makes it sound like eVyros is top tier and gives us a completely different style of play...

[Murkhadh]

So, this thread makes it sound like eVyros is top tier and gives us a completely different style of play...

Sounds like it so far, completely different style of play, that part I'm pretty sure about.

I'm going to reserve judgement for top tier.

I thought Ossyan was going to be better than he turned out to be and it took a while to come to that conclusion. So I'm going to hold off on anointing him yet.