How has eVyros been for you?

[AJ the Ronin]

So, this thread makes it sound like eVyros is top tier and gives us a completely different style of play...

To the very least this thread is convincing me of buying another Hydra and a couple of additional Gryphons.

[Cannotcope]

Based on early reports it almost sounds like eVyros is Retribution's answer to eLylyth?
Is it too early to say "problem solved"?

[Rampaging Elk]

Based on early reports it almost sounds like eVyros is Retribution's answer to eLylyth?
Is it too early to say "problem solved"?

Theorymachine says yes. Practical experience has yet to confirm.

[joelker41]

Based on early reports it almost sounds like eVyros is Retribution's answer to eLylyth?
Is it too early to say "problem solved"?

That is definitely taking it a bit far.

[FearLord]

Based on early reports it almost sounds like eVyros is Retribution's answer to eLylyth?
Is it too early to say "problem solved"?

Excitingly, I'm not sure whether Vyros 2 or Vyros 1 + Hyperion is the better answer to Lylyth 2 yet, but I think they both bring options against her that we just didn't have prior to this book... I think there's still work to be done in the actual application, but this seems to be our best bet about actually competing with her...

As far as being competitive goes, it is still too early, but I am going to be working Vyros 2 up for tournaments because I believe that he provides abilities and play styles that differ from what we can currently do... I think its going to be harder for my opponents to look at my lists and say "Oh, Retribution? That means I'm playing this list..."

[Murkhadh]

Based on early reports it almost sounds like eVyros is Retribution's answer to eLylyth?
Is it too early to say "problem solved"?

I agree with the others that its FAR too early to tell, but I have the highest hopes for this being the answer to eLylyth that I have ever had. I'm going to hopefully get my friend to play her vs me on Monday.

[Murkhadh]

Excitingly, I'm not sure whether Vyros 2 or Vyros 1 + Hyperion is the better answer to Lylyth 2 yet, but I think they both bring options against her that we just didn't have prior to this book... I think there's still work to be done in the actual application, but this seems to be our best bet about actually competing with her...

As far as being competitive goes, it is still too early, but I am going to be working Vyros 2 up for tournaments because I believe that he provides abilities and play styles that differ from what we can currently do... I think its going to be harder for my opponents to look at my lists and say "Oh, Retribution? That means I'm playing this list..."

All of this, but especially, this

"Oh, Retribution? That means I'm playing this list..."

I'm going to run ravyn and eVyros because they are total opposites with Rahn as a third last for something different than the two of them.

[Dubstep]

What I also find cool about evyros is that at the end of a synergy chain of 2, he has one of the highest mats in the game on charge attacks. Mat 12. That means against any def 15 and under is missed only on snake eyes. That def 19 domiano? not so safe now. not at all. In my opinion, charging with eV at 4 focus and with a synergy chain of 3-5 is pretty much a sure bet of a caster kill. Like hell, I was playing against the butcher, and because I had to end the game early, for giggles i charged a full health butcher with 3 focus on him and only 2 on me. Synergy chain +4. With those three attacks, i actually got butcher down to 3 health. Now granted, my damage rolls were slightly above average, but the point remains if i had a single focus more (which i stupidly gave up to give a hydra a focus she didnt need) that would be one dead butcher. I find it hard to NOT get above +2 synergy afte feat turn. The griffons just hit, and the rest follow suit. Easy cake.

[FearLord]

What I also find cool about evyros is that at the end of a synergy chain of 2, he has one of the highest mats in the game on charge attacks. Mat 14.

MAT 8 + 2 (Cavalry Charge) + 2 (Synergy Bonus) = MAT 12...

[Mastershake]

MAT 8 + 2 (Cavalry Charge) + 2 (Synergy Bonus) = MAT 12...

Psh, math, elves don't need that for anything.

Hell we invented the phrase "Unboosted POW 10's kill casters"

[Rampaging Elk]

I'm going to run ravyn and eVyros because they are total opposites with Rahn as a third last for something different than the two of them.

That's pretty much what I was thinking, though I'm not definite on Rahn for the third. Might take Kaelyssa instead, or even Garryth.

[Murkhadh]

That's pretty much what I was thinking, though I'm not definite on Rahn for the third. Might take Kaelyssa instead, or even Garryth.

Rahn brings a different feel than the other too as well. And he's really good on scenarios pushing and pulling models off of points and out of zones

[RetributionBomb]

Psh, math, elves don't need that for anything.

Hell we invented the phrase "Unboosted POW 10's kill casters"

You should see my rolling with my Sentinels, they defy averages. 3 Sentinels vs Bronzeback awwww yea.

[Mastershake]

You should see my rolling with my Sentinels, they defy averages. 3 Sentinels vs Bronzeback awwww yea.

Don't want to hear it, I had 6 Sentinels charging a knocked down Warpwolf Stalker. They were apparently having a contest to see who could do the least damage with the first four combined netting a whole 2. The last two were having none of that though and killed it.

[K1rby]

Don't want to hear it, I had 6 Sentinels charging a knocked down Warpwolf Stalker. They were apparently having a contest to see who could do the least damage with the first four combined netting a whole 2. The last two were having none of that though and killed it.

Roll the last two first next time =D.

[bouncymischa]

Don't want to hear it, I had 6 Sentinels charging a knocked down Warpwolf Stalker. They were apparently having a contest to see who could do the least damage with the first four combined netting a whole 2. The last two were having none of that though and killed it.

I had one game where Karchev had his Behemoth kill one Sentinel, setting them up for a turn when they used a Vengence move and then Quicken for six of them to get the charge off on him while he was still on front of his jack wall.

Five of them failed to hit.

[Dubstep]

I had one game where Karchev had his Behemoth kill one Sentinel, setting them up for a turn when they used a Vengence move and then Quicken for six of them to get the charge off on him while he was still on front of his jack wall.

Five of them failed to hit.

If any of you guys can top 8 snake eyes in a single game, i'm all ears (ps. one of those "snake eyes" was actually MUTATED SNAKE eyes when i rolled 3 ones on a boost)

I took the dice to my local pyromaniac

[Syfer22]

If any of you guys can top 8 snake eyes in a single game, i'm all ears (ps. one of those "snake eyes" was actually MUTATED SNAKE eyes when i rolled 3 ones on a boost)

I took the dice to my local pyromaniac

Can't top, but I can match. Garryth versus eGrissel, I never rolled so many snake eyes in my life.

[Demeritus]

So my lists that I have run with him were similar in the jack dept but a bit different in the infantry dept.

eVyros
Banshee
Hydra
Griffon
Sylys
MHSF+ UA
Full Sentinels+ UA
2 Arcanist
eEiryss
MHA
Ghost Sniper

List 2
Banshee
Griffon
Manticore
Sylys
Full Sents+UA
Full Halberdiers +UA
2 Ghost Sniper
eEiryss
MHA

I was impressed with both lists but I'm still working them out. I like the Banshee for the KD option as well as Wailing. I look forward to playtesting him more but so far I really like him.

[NEoJoe]

I can confirm that Phoenix, Hydra Hydra is not a good 'jack layout for him. I think a light borderline must be included.

I have gotten seriously great results out of the sphinx. He's been a super impressive work horse in basically every game I've used him. I haven't been bothering much with quality 'jacks anymore, Sphinx and Griffon haven't come close to disappointing me yet in any way.

I also don't know about taking stuff without Reach. I'm not gonna use that to outright write off our several non-reach heavies, but man, covering the board in cheap, durable stuff with Reach that can basically kill anything and move all goofy-like during the feat turn has just been so sexy.

[Murkhadh]

I can confirm that Phoenix, Hydra Hydra is not a good 'jack layout for him. I think a light borderline must be included.

I have gotten seriously great results out of the sphinx. He's been a super impressive work horse in basically every game I've used him. I haven't been bothering much with quality 'jacks anymore, Sphinx and Griffon haven't come close to disappointing me yet in any way.

I also don't know about taking stuff without Reach. I'm not gonna use that to outright write off our several non-reach heavies, but man, covering the board in cheap, durable stuff with Reach that can basically kill anything and move all goofy-like during the feat turn has just been so sexy.

Try 4 + griffons and see how you like it

[Dubstep]

This is how i see synergy. You are automatically boosting your attack and damage rolls, you just know the outcome of that dice before you roll it.

What I understand about vyros2 is that he has the same problems as vyros1. Low focus, means low focus for jacks. Too much focus intensive jacks is not good for vyros buddy

[PG_kerensky]

Going yo try this list tonight, see how it goes.
eVyros
Phoenix
Griffin
Griffon
Aspis
Max sentinels + UA + 3 soulless
Max sentinels
Destor thane
Destor thane
Arcanist
Arcanist

Hopefully the sentinels clog things up sufficiently to get the rest of ky army in position and either smash through or win scenario. Killing caster is alot more satisfying though

[Rogue Sun]

This is how i see synergy. You are automatically boosting your attack and damage rolls, you just know the outcome of that dice before you roll it.

What I understand about vyros2 is that he has the same problems as vyros1. Low focus, means low focus for jacks. Too much focus intensive jacks is not good for vyros buddy

Not necessarily though. 4 Griffons runs you 11 points with Vyros. And all you need is a hit to get that Synergy bonus going. So factoring in upkeeping Synergy, you could load 1 Griffon with 3 focus, and give 1 to two other griffons for a cheap charge or boost to hit. With two Arcanists on the table, you can have 1 Power Boost the remaining Griffon and the other give Concentrated Power to the loaded up Griffon. With some proper activation orders you could potentially get that loaded Griffon to MAT 10 (12 on the charge) and POW 19, which should be sufficient to bring down a heavy. All that with only 13 points of your army. Factor in some Sentinels and other heavy hitters and you've got yourself a caster that can do the job with 6 focus.

[NEoJoe]

eV's focus is something worth discussing though. I think the biggest thing you can say about it is "thank PP for Arcanists" because those guys have mattered more than ever.

I don't think his low focus is bad enough to be considered a downside, but it's definitely a limitation. FOC 6 keeps him from being dumb. So far, getting 5 focus a turn has lead to me USING that 5 focus to its fullest, and generally Power Boosting too. I've not been pissed that I didn't have enough focus yet, and I've not been angry that his is so low I don't feel like I can get everything done. It honestly feels JUST right, except that losing Arcanists hurts so much more.

A bad thing is how Power Boost vs Concentrated Power isn't really a given with him. I've sent a few heavies to kill other heavies without Cpower because I absolutely needed the Pboost focus elsewhere in order to make the turn operate. I don't care for having to do that, but it's more limitation that I'm fine with. The heavy usually gets the job done (go Sphinx!) but it's close sometimes.

With Cpower whatever I want dead, dies. Man it feels nice to finally swing POW 20s that don't miss with Ret heavies.

And Deflection helps a good ways during the early turns to make sure Arcanists get there.

Other general stuff is that, so far, my guys have been all over town. I'm constantly striving to keep everything in Vyros' control area nowadays. Well, during Tide of War that is. I have had an issue once, where my opponent gave me a movement, and I marched a Halberdier up to his guys, but then he was out of my control area and could be killed at no risk. The Feat loses some power when you're in that position. Also, Invictors seem to clutter the central area of the board a bit in order to get LOS and CRAs on a guy just within range and stuff, and that can limit Vyros' options on where he himself moves during Tide of War.

Speaking of, his SPD 8 has been bananas. His super charge has helped me quite a bit. The opponent really does need to watch that ending-my-turn-soon-can't-let-Vyros-move-8"-for-final-Tide of War-movement-and-kill-me thing. Finally, Vyros can now camp-run a billion miles, sit by their caster, and not die to all the stuff that can't charge him anymore. He'll then politely wait until it's his turn, then kill them right through their camp if you can get the Synergy. The opponent will do their best to make sure your 'jacks can't get you the MAT POW stupid though. I mean, this doesn't work in a variety of situations, but sometimes it'll be the right play, and it's in his deck of cards.

[FearLord]

Speaking of, his SPD 8 has been bananas. His super charge has helped me quite a bit. The opponent really does need to watch that ending-my-turn-soon-can't-let-Vyros-move-8"-for-final-Tide of War-movement-and-kill-me thing.

This seems to be the real "teeth" of Tide of War - your opponent must be extremely careful with order of operation - especially their caster. If the caster activates too early in the turn, there is the potential to threaten them from several positions with the Battlegroup (and as has already been pointed out, even the most humble members of the battlegroup are capable of being stone cold killers thanks to Synergy...)

[FearLord]

What I understand about vyros2 is that he has the same problems as vyros1. Low focus, means low focus for jacks. Too much focus intensive jacks is not good for vyros buddy

Not as much as you might think - there is a hard limit to the amount of jacks that can receive 3 focus and go to town completely, but in terms of actually hitting and damaging things the Synergy bonus adds up quickly - any model in the battle group can be the focal point for that Synergy chain bonus and deal spectacular damage with high accuracy...

I think Griffons are pretty key to his strategy, but one or two heavies should not be underestimated...

[Dubstep]

Here is the problem I have been facing however. Maybe its because I've been facing more assasination type armies/casters, but vyros need to keep at LEAST 2 focus on him to give him that survivability, especially since he needs to play upfeild and close to the front line. Arm 18 is good mind you, but not bulletproof. Also, hes a medium based model, meanin that my oponent can draw LOS to him pretty often.

[FearLord]

Here is the problem I have been facing however. Maybe its because I've been facing more assasination type armies/casters, but vyros need to keep at LEAST 2 focus on him to give him that survivability, especially since he needs to play upfeild and close to the front line. Arm 18 is good mind you, but not bulletproof. Also, hes a medium based model, meanin that my oponent can draw LOS to him pretty often.

He's a large based model. You don't have to make a massive Synergy chain every turn - in fact, the point of it (that I generally see) is to make it the last turn of the game, by sending a beefed up jack or Vyros himself into their caster...

[Dubstep]

But what I'm saying is how do you run your jacks effectively till that opportunity presents itself? If after your feat turn, your opponent has either done something to hinder your jacks movements, or you just messed up, how do you recover from that with only 3 focus? Either your feat turn was perfect or you have some jacks that are not gonna be running very effectivly. Perhaps you face a beast heavy army? you cant get to their caster because he has spaced out his army in such a way that you cant get to him? Or perhaps a high control feat, such as ekrug where after you feat and move all your stuff, he feats and disables the majority of your army. With that small pool of focus and so many focus hungry jacks, your counter attack will be too soft.

[Rampaging Elk]

I think the large based model is going to make him more vulnerable to really strong gunlines, but that's why you take Destors and/or heavies with him, especially with his tier. Destors up 20" turn 1 mean they can easily screen for him. Then, if they survive (at armor 19 against range with Deflection up) they either stand still and get the aiming bonus to do some shooting themselves or charge up and engage anything that might shoot Vyros while you position yourself for a great feat turn.

Really, the biggest threat I can think of for eVyros right now is lots of rough terrain since it forces him to spend half his focus on Easy Rider (ie., the Circle caster with the feat of making his control area a forest. I think it's Cassius? But a better example is the Khador battle engine since it can consistently throw down rough terrain) and lots of knockdown since that will also burn through all his focus (Pop 'n drop). If he is forced to spend his focus on just getting his jacks to stand back up, he's going to be in trouble.

[Kallas]

I'm still really unimpressed by his feat. I've only been in a situation where I can shuffle sideways a little, or nothing. How early are people using it? I feel I might be using it too early, but once engaged I doubt the ability to manoeuvre will be immense... Just not digging the feat.

[Rogue Sun]

I'm still really unimpressed by his feat. I've only been in a situation where I can shuffle sideways a little, or nothing. How early are people using it? I feel I might be using it too early, but once engaged I doubt the ability to manoeuvre will be immense... Just not digging the feat.

First turn... With his tier list at least. If you're using this feat later than 2nd turn you're doing it wrong.

Perhaps you're not being aggressive enough with your army. EVyros is meant to be shoved in peoples faces. Not sit idly back and watch the enemy come to you. He's a full bore, balls to the wall caster.

[NEoJoe]

I'm still really unimpressed by his feat. I've only been in a situation where I can shuffle sideways a little, or nothing. How early are people using it? I feel I might be using it too early, but once engaged I doubt the ability to manoeuvre will be immense... Just not digging the feat.

I've run two min units of Halberdiers with him in almost every game, Feat bottom of turn one or top of turn two, and never just randomly shuffle. Got my first Heavy-to-Caster delivery with it yesterday. That was entirely due to his inexperience with the feat, but against more experience players it still just keeps them infinijammed while my back row gets into super nice positions they don't deserve.

And Murk, your box is full. Lemme know when you clear it.

[RetributionBomb]

I'll say this much, his feat does not lend itself to straight up brawls or casual games. If there is not a scenario the opponent can easily just step his army back. But in Scenario, yes, run up with your infantry within charge distance and pop your feat. As they kill your infantry all your heavies and solos reposition to wreck face next turn.

[Murkhadh]

The feat has been money for me

pop it first turn or second, and have entire army just out of threat range, as they kill models I move things that were previously out of range, into range and move them toward things that already activated.

NeoJoe inbox has room now

[Dubstep]

Just played against pigs. Feat allowed me to jam sents down his mouth so he couldnt move his army an inch forward, while setting my jacks up and getting vyros into kill mode position. Needless to say, on the next turn, 3 jack attacks and removing a single small based model won me the game via assasination

[Baptism By Ice]

Are you guys taking destors with him in tier? Are they worth it...? +2 SPD is pretty nice, but... I dunno. Those just seem like better points that could go towards more sents or griffons.

[RetributionBomb]

Are you guys taking destors with him in tier? Are they worth it...? +2 SPD is pretty nice, but... I dunno. Those just seem like better points that could go towards more sents or griffons.

Even with the cost reduction I still wouldn't take Destors. Take Thanes, they still get +2 SPD.

[NEoJoe]

I'd take Destors with other casters even, which completely disqualifies me for the discussion about Destors, since I'm clearly insane.

I like the other ways people have been using the Feat though.