Mountain King unboxing

[Goris]

Check out the Scrum's Unboxing of the Mountain King on The Scrum TV!
http://www.trollbloodscrum.com/2012/...-unboxing.html

[Greggle]

Hey Goris, due to all the hate right now, will you be posting some battle reports with him? I'm gonna start proxying him here and see what I can get out of him.

[PG_Nicodemus]

Just used him with Grim in a 35 point game. He's pretty dang fun!

As predicted, he's very similar to having a couple of heavys. My brother actually killed it with some hammerfall and a wroughtram (over two turns, even with the regeneration), so we'll still need to protect it when possible (Janissa will be wonderful, KSB+ Elder is nice too). Keep in mind Wroughtrams can hurt when they crit!

I kind of wish he had a little more to work with for killing infantry. The spray is nice, but it creates a line of death rather than large holes like everything else so far.

But on the other hand, this was only one game to learn the rules, so I'm sure I'm missing stuff.

[omerplata]

I have a couple concerns for it:

1) with such low mat and rat and so few attacks it will be harder to get as much out of it each turn than the colossals.
2) The amount of support we will need to take to keep it from being shot up then finished off will almost equal another 20 points (exaggeration). Screening it with infantry is fine, but the colossals will be able to wipe out that infantry with just a couple of their 4-6 ranges attacks, which are not fired only ina straight line.

He looks fun, but for right now I am less then optimistic about his rules. I hope goris can get some bat reps up for us, show us strengths and weakness, and hopefully sway the negative attitude about the big brute. Either way I am still picking up at least one, maybe 2 if I sell some blood.

[PG_Celedor]

With everything going on, it's a testament to the men Scrum when these get up just like that. Thanks again.

[PG_petegrrrr]

Say what you will about the rules and it's cost, but you gotta admit it's a very nice looking model!

[hatchet]

the model is beautiful, absolutely amazing. That said I will run him a few times just to say I have, and he'll never see the table again. He simply isn't worth 20 pts. All the support I would give him to make him worth it I could put on Mulg instead and still have 8 pts. The only way I could consider him instead of Mulg is with character restrictions, he's just too easy to kill.

[Duff]

Great model !

[hooligantuesday]

Great model !

Great model with meh rules. For 8 points less i can have a beast thats just as strong, has better special rules, has better Mat and is more defensible. I don't see what we're paying 20 points for here. Also this is why Mulg is king of the Dire Trolls, he's smaller than a Mountain King but infinitely more efficient.

[Goris]

So, for all you doomers out there here's the scoop. As per PP, Gargantuans are meant to be toned down versions of the Colossals. Because of the inherent strength of the Fury mechanic and buff stacking on Warbeasts you will see these guys seeming a little Meh at first. The mountain king seems very tame at first, but in the grand scheme of things he's not meant to be played like a Colossal at all. I say play him first. I've managed to spell Vyros to death with Primal shock and tie up significant amounts of my opponents army with minimal buffs and proper whelp placement...

[omerplata]

The masses demand bat reps!

[Goris]

Vyros nearly alpha strikes doomy off the board, bring me down to 3. Amuck on Axer takes out more then half a unit of sentinels and knocks Cav solo off his horse. Earthborn wrecks the Banshee and the MK sweeps the other half of the sentinels off the board then Sprays Vyros down by 12 points with his free spray and also catches an arcanist. Whelps are blocking charge lanes now and Doomy is out of danger. Next round spray nearly kills Vyros then Primal shock seals the deal.

[Cannibalbob]

Say what you will about the rules and it's cost, but you gotta admit it's a very nice looking model!

It is, but there are no shortage of expensive great models out there. If I wanted a model just for that reason I am pretty spoiled for choices.

[Goris]

It is, but there are no shortage of expensive great models out there. If I wanted a model just for that reason I am pretty spoiled for choices.

I'm not saying the most powerful spray in the game is worth 20 points, but it's something to consider. This isn't really directed at you bob, but merely in general as I am too exhausted to do much more. But right now when I look at the MK, I see good potential and that's beyound how gorgeous the model is. This is a midst the sheer awe inspiring amount of new models I saw this weekend, including the SoBs.

[hmk17]

A little disappointed in no forced Regen in addition to whelp shedding, but its a solid model. Thanks for the preview Goris.

[Goris]

If he's damaged he won't need it because there will be a whelp there. Why pay a fury for something that's free?

[hmk17]

Redundancy: cuz it never hurts to have a back up.

I've seen people go after Whelps though when they spawn. Its kinda funny.

[Goris]

spawn them directly behind him and they can't be targeted by anything except sprays or chain lightning...

[Greggle]

Yeah, don't forget guys, we can snack and get rid of fury without them being in LOS.

[PG_thegreatblah]

Dunno if it's been said, but if you actually put whelps in your list the MK can spawn two whelps each turn. One for his own ability and another for the whelps that you brought. Or am I reading this wrong.

[Artein]

It's already beed said and you're reading this right. :P

[Jota]

spawn them directly behind him and they can't be targeted by anything except sprays or chain lightning...

No need to target them.. put a 5" AOE on the MtK and they are pasted. (Yes, I know, 5" AOE:s are not in every list - still in a dark mood about this)

And Regeneration would have been a nice option to heal damage from transfers, hard hits, when youre out of placed whelps somehow and bad whelp snacking rolls. I cant tell if its needed though, hopefully its not.

[Asomdeus]

Whelps can be spawned anywhere within 1 inch of the beast, so keep them back an inch and those 5" AOE cannot hit them.

[PG_petegrrrr]

Not his whelps. Mountain King must spawn them base to base. So if he gets crowded with infantry, he may not even have the room to spawn more than 2 or 3

[Goris]

Hard to fill in his back arc with models without eating free strikes. I don't foresee this being a problem...

[PG_thegreatblah]

No need to target them.. put a 5" AOE on the MtK and they are pasted. (Yes, I know, 5" AOE:s are not in every list - still in a dark mood about this)

And Regeneration would have been a nice option to heal damage from transfers, hard hits, when youre out of placed whelps somehow and bad whelp snacking rolls. I cant tell if its needed though, hopefully its not.

5" AOE's aren't very common in this game and will only touch whelps that are base to base with the MK. That and if they are using the 5" AOE in that fashion then I've probably already won.

[PG_petegrrrr]

You're not gonna cover his whole back arc certainly, but spd 6 warrior models can run into position for most of it if they need too.

Played a proxy game against him as four star daminao yesterday (mainly out of curiosity as I heard someone post that they had no answer to him with their damiano list). ran 5 kayazy around to fill up his back arc, had the other 6 just charge in at pow 15's to take out half his life. ran up one of my last steelheads for flank, then had 3 steelhead cav finish him off. I think he only had space to spawn a single whelp (which I killed out of spite with my last backswing )

A specific list, certainly, but kayazy are pretty prevalent in khador and merc lists, and for 3 of the 5 I didn't even need to rely on parry, just ran 12 inches without getting into his melee (charged from the side).

[omerplata]

Good to know >20 points of infantry can take down a 20 point gargantuan in 1 turn.

[Jota]

No whelps in the box btw?

[PG_petegrrrr]

10 points for Kayazy, 6 for steelhead cavalry, and half of a min unit of steelheads is 18. But the thing is they could do it without putting themselves in nearly as much danger, as it's much harder to remove 15 models that cost 18 points then 1 model that costs 20. Eggs and baskets and all in one and so forth

And when you kill my infantry, you don't hurt the effectiveness of my caster like the loss of a 20 point 5 fury beast hurts a warlock.

EDIT* Whelps in the box is a good question.

[omerplata]

10 points for Kayazy, 6 for steelhead cavalry, and half of a min unit of steelheads is 18. But the thing is they could do it without putting themselves in nearly as much danger, as it's much harder to remove 15 models that cost 18 points then 1 model that costs 20. Eggs and baskets and all in one and so forth

And when you kill my infantry, you don't hurt the effectiveness of my caster like the loss of a 20 point 5 fury beast hurts a warlock.

EDIT* Whelps in the box is a good question.

Exactly. Meanwhile the Stormwall would kill half (if not more) of those models before they made it close. The pods do not require a roll to hit kayazay, plus the can be used for triangulations which also do not require a roll to beat defense. I know it is not a good practice to compare between factions, but when a cygnar machine (which normally are pillow fisted) that has the same ammount of buffs for defense and offense as trolls, gets a higher base mat str and ps, possibly 8 times the amount of ranged attacks, auto hitting drop pods, and more hit boxes, and can still be repaired far more reliably by a 2 point solo (strangwayes) all for less points then the MK.

They may not be meant to serve the same purpose, but PP should still look at that and see the huge gap in playability between these models. I'll get it and play it, but it will never make a tournament list for me as it stands right now.

[PG_Celedor]

Good to know >20 points of infantry can take down a 20 point gargantuan in 1 turn.

I'm sure nobody has ever said something along these lines about burrowers :P

[omerplata]

I'm sure nobody has ever said something along these lines about burrowers :P

LOL, very good point, I have done this before many times. But usually the player learns after the first. And also they usually don't take out 1 model worth all of those 20 points.

On a plus note colossals and gargantuans may finally be the first thing that burrowers can hit without needing buffs!

[PG_thegreatblah]

No whelps in the box btw?

No whelps or their card comes in the MK box.


**Batteries are sold separately**

[PG_petegrrrr]

I can't believe you missed a chance to make a Batteries Not Included 1980's movie reference.

...I don't even know you anymore!

[Goris]

Tiny flying saucers with faces, who knew...

[PG_thegreatblah]

I can't believe you missed a chance to make a Batteries Not Included 1980's movie reference.

...I don't even know you anymore!

Lock and Load hangover... plus just because the busiest time of year for you is when Lock and Load is means nothing. Next year get ye to Seattle.

[PG_petegrrrr]

Or better yet, Get Ye fools down to Kingdom Con 2013! We aim to the biggest gaming con on in the west this year! We've even moved dates to not conflict with adept icon or temple con!

Plus, it's in san diego in the early spring, which is awesome. I will even Treat you to Luche Libre, the best and most delicious mexican wrestling themed burrito joint in the west!

[Jota]

No whelps or their card comes in the MK box.


**Batteries are sold separately**

That is actually really lame, shame on you PP!

[Goris]

That is actually really lame, shame on you PP!

You are booing on PP for not giving you something for free? Really?

Whelps existed long before this thing and have ALWAYS been useful. Not having them available to use in your army is your fault and nothing more. I had 2 units of them from day one knowing they would be golden and now my patience has been rewarded.