Gargantuans release....spring of 2013? (steam forged.com rumors)

[Calcifar]

You do realize that in Wrath/Domination Retribution got the most new releases ?

Yes I am aware of that.

Are you aware of the number of Warcasters , Ret players can choose from ?

Currently, Horde factions are ahead of Ret in every aspect, asm uch as 5 to 6 casters ahead and you get to play "catch-up" with new unit- warlocks aswell.

From my perspective, you are in a amazing position.


off topic:
One of my favorite animes aswell, hence the avatar and name. Its cheap but the name is quite uncommon and I like the sound of it.
Also, that avatar is hysterically fitting, when you are flaming someone (or emotionally ranting )
Not that I would EVER be guilty of such crimes...

[Kallas]

You do realize that in Wrath/Domination Retribution got the most new releases ?

I hope this doesn't sound too confrontational, but:
Wrath, Retribution got 9 releases, with 1 Warcaster.
Domination, every faction got 7, with 2 Warlocks.

For this cycle:
Colossals, Retribution get 2 releases, including 1 Warcaster.
Gargantuans, Hordes get 5 (minimum, I believe) each, with 1 Warlock.

So, since MKII FoW/H:
Retribution: 11 releases, including 2 Warcasters.
Hordes: 12 releases (minimum, up to 14), including 3 Warlocks.

Retribution didn't get the short end of the stick, but considering that Retribution started MKII significantly behind even Hordes, the gap has only grown and the area of greatest concern (Warcasters) is by far the most worrisome.

I have faith that PP will not let the Retribution community (and the game community overall; everyone benefits from overall diversity in the end) down by letting them slide into an uncompetitive hole, but a single extra release in Colossals (one solo?) could have gone a long way to assuage fears/disappointment.

Simon's comments have definitely perked my spirits as a Retribution player and I hope that the future cycles will see Retribution getting more options to bring them closer to parity in game terms and more involved with the central plot.

[Khador247]

Sometimes I get the feeling that Retribution players had unreleastic expectations that PP would catch them up to the older factions. That's not going to happen.

[bouncymischa]

Sometimes I get the feeling that Retribution players had unreleastic expectations that PP would catch them up to the older factions. That's not going to happen.

Given that Privateer has explicitly stated that they felt there was a need to catch the Hordes factions up to the older Warmachine factions, why shouldn't Retribution players question whether or not Privateer will do the same for them? What's the difference between catching the Hordes factions up, and catching the Retribution faction up?

[Dark Lord of Puppies]

Sometimes I get the feeling that Retribution players had unreleastic expectations that PP would catch them up to the older factions. That's not going to happen.

some Ret players may have thought that, but not all. having started the game with hordes and being told more than once that hordes would always be behind warmachine I always expected Ret to stay below the curve.

if the do attempt to catch Ret I'll be happy, but if you play Ret you shouldn't EXPECT it.

[FearLord]

Wrath, Retribution got 9 releases, with 1 Warcaster.

Actually 10, and I think the argument could certainly be made for 11 (including Wyshnaylor) who while a merc technically, is functionally identical to a Retribution model...

Your main point still stands however, Retribution are hardly getting loads more options than Hordes, and even if they were, the extra Warlock is far more important than any number of additional other options...

[Lord Sessadore]

Sometimes I get the feeling that Retribution players had unreleastic expectations that PP would catch them up to the older factions. That's not going to happen.

I never used to, because PP said it wouldn't happen. And personally I'm ok with not getting special treatment in the form of extra releases.

But, as others have said, PP explicitly stating that the difference in number of releases between Colossals and Gargantuans is partly an effort to catch up Hordes has raised the issue again. IIRC they originally said they weren't going to catch up Hordes, either.

I feel it's a valid question at this point. Besides, the worst they can say is "no", right?

[SOUPlex]

Number of books doesn't matter. Number of model entries does. Smaller book lets Hordes catch up while still giving Warmachine a book at all. Otherwise, to catch up, they'd have to skip Warmachine in the release cycle under your logic.

Simon, I understand we cannot know the name of the book, but is a final name decided yet? Just curious.

Considering Hordes doesn't get a book this year at all, but has to wait till next year, and assuming PP prints a Warmachine book next year as well, THAT book would have to he very small as well to claim "a catch-up".

Mind you, if PP goes to a one book a year release schedule, that is no longer the case.

[bouncymischa]

Considering Hordes doesn't get a book this year at all, but has to wait till next year, and assuming PP prints a Warmachine book next year as well, THAT book would have to he very small as well to claim "a catch-up".

Mind you, if PP goes to a one book a year release schedule, that is no longer the case.

Considering that most of the Hordes books have had a higher model count than Warmachine books, it's very hard to see how Privateer isn't playing "catch-up" with them. Should we compare the number of releases in Apotheosis vs. Metamorphosis? Gargantuans vs. Colossals? Perhaps even Prime vs. Primal, and Evolution vs. Escalation?

Your argument seems to be that, unless Hordes is actually ahead of Warmachine in model count, it's not being caught up?

[TravR]

I have not yet seen the full model list for that WARMACHINE cycle yet so I can't really commit to an answer there. I do know that our intention is to have new options for Retribution players in the not-too-distant future.

Great News! Thank you for letting us know what you can.

[AJ the Ronin]

We are hoping to have some of the new Retribution models previewed in concept art at L&L among the first post-Colossals WARMACHINE releases.

Simon, thanks for answering. Honestly, I didn't expected you will so my hat off to you. Honest.

Now, what else was previewed aside from 3riyss unit in L&L?



Side note: Between Apotheosis and Primal Mk.1, models from Superiority were released and keep the WM schedule going. The important thing is that the models are coming. I wouldn't be surprised if September includes models from Wrath, Domination, Colossal and Gargantuan. I would be surprised if we get models form the WM unnamed book.

[SOUPlex]

Considering that most of the Hordes books have had a higher model count than Warmachine books, it's very hard to see how Privateer isn't playing "catch-up" with them. Should we compare the number of releases in Apotheosis vs. Metamorphosis? Gargantuans vs. Colossals? Perhaps even Prime vs. Primal, and Evolution vs. Escalation?

Your argument seems to be that, unless Hordes is actually ahead of Warmachine in model count, it's not being caught up?

My argument is nothing of the sort.

Let me restructure this again. Based on the following assumptions:

- Warmachine is getting a book printed in 2013
- Said book is as large as Hordes: Gargantuan

There will be no catching up. Warmachine had a release this year: Colossals; Hordes did not. I am completely empathetic (being a Merc AND a Trollblood player) in the fact that it was only 2 releases per faction. However, Hordes did not have a release this year at all. If they are going to be doing a release for each system every year, this means that Hordes missed out on one in 2012 (not a big deal, I'm not arguing this). But this pretty well snuffs out the idea of Hordes "catching up."

HOWEVER if they are doing a release for only 1 system a year, then PP can call it a "catch-up". I think that the evidence is pointing towards having rolling releases throughout the year, but a book only every other year for each system.

[MidnightFox0083]

- Said book is as large as Hordes: Gargantuan

This is purely an assumption you're making. All PP has said is that Gargantuans will be a return to more releases per book.

I would be VERY surprised if the '13 WM book had the same amount of releases as Gargantuans.

[SOUPlex]

It's a pretty well based assumption. Simon was quite definitively talking about plural book(S).

Hey guys,

Just a few notes. The low model count in Colossals is definitely anomolous for us and you can expect to see numbers of models similar to those in Wrathin upcoming anthology books. Beginning with HORDES: Gargantuans we'll be returning to these normal release numbers. We'll be talking about the decisions that went into this at tomorrow night's staff presentation at Lock & Load Gamefest 2012! Now, if you'll excuse me, I have more dudes to murder with Nemo 3 and my Stormwall.

[PG_Sobek]

I always end up rolling my eyes when other Ret players start talking about wanting PP to catch us up as a faction. Honestly, other than Warcasters, and I suppose a 3 man character unit, what are we really missing?

Ret has more UAs than most of the other factions, so shouldn't they be caught up to us?

While yes, I'd love more options, we really don't NEED to be caught up in order to be competative. Recent tournaments have shown that. As a faction, we have intentionally designed weaknesses, but we pretty much have our bases covered as far as different types of units.

[TheLoki]

Yes, HORDES: Gargantuans will be an early 2013 release. However, as usual, this means that models from that book will make their ways to your tabletops in the months leading up to the book. In this case, they'll do so alongside upcoming WARMACHINE releases!

Profound sadness.

Any indication on when the hordes releases will start? As a minion player I'm kinda chomping at the bit to get a bone thrown.

[PG_Sobek]

Profound sadness.

Any indication on when the hordes releases will start? As a minion player I'm kinda chomping at the bit to get a bone thrown.

Well, if they continue to release one faction from Colossals a month, we'll probably start seeing stuff from Gargantuans releasing around November, give or take. Unless they want to start releasing some of the Gargantuans while they're also releasing the Colossals.

[jdeckert]

There will be no catching up. Warmachine had a release this year: Colossals; Hordes did not. I am completely empathetic (being a Merc AND a Trollblood player) in the fact that it was only 2 releases per faction. However, Hordes did not have a release this year at all. If they are going to be doing a release for each system every year, this means that Hordes missed out on one in 2012 (not a big deal, I'm not arguing this). But this pretty well snuffs out the idea of Hordes "catching up."

This is only true if you're looking at where the systems stand on December 31st 2012 and 2013. If you look at how much the systems get in a calendar year, Warmachine comes out ahead in 2012 and they'll be about the same in 2013. But if you think about it in terms of how much variety players have at any given time, a smaller Colossals release actually increases parity in the long run. Gargantuans will increase the size of Hordes relative to warmachine, giving them more equality until the next WM expansion is out. In that period, the systems will probably be closer than at any other point in the past. If Hordes didn't get a 2012 release, then Warmachine got their summer expansion, and Hordes had to wait until Fall/Winter 2013 to see their next release then you would be right that a small Collosals release wouldn't result in any catch-up.

[WarpedWolf]

Wow, isn't this a, um lively debate.

As a beginning Circle player, I will say that what I'd like to see is more light warbeasts. Maybe another construct or two, or a character beastie. We've only got two character beasties, Megalith and Ghetorix.

[bouncymischa]

I always end up rolling my eyes when other Ret players start talking about wanting PP to catch us up as a faction. Honestly, other than Warcasters, and I suppose a 3 man character unit, what are we really missing?

Ret has more UAs than most of the other factions, so shouldn't they be caught up to us?

While yes, I'd love more options, we really don't NEED to be caught up in order to be competative. Recent tournaments have shown that. As a faction, we have intentionally designed weaknesses, but we pretty much have our bases covered as far as different types of units.

I think variety is an aspect of competitiveness, though. Sure, the Retribution can make competitive lists with its current lineup of models. Arguably, so can either of the Minions pacts -- but with only 3 warlocks each, they're going to be pretty cookie-cutter and predictable. Most Retribution tournament lists are the same, with little variety in playstyle.

On the other hand, take any of the big four Warmachine factions, and you see a huge potential diversity in lists. If I'm facing a Cygnar player, am I looking at a Kraye list with lots of mobile warjacks, or a Nemo list with heavy warjack armor? A Styker2 list that beats down hard in melee, or a Haley gunline list?

Retribution may well be competitive, but it's still highly predictably and lacking in variety, which is what I think a lot of Retribution players want. Even then, they could likely be satisfied with what they've got, if Privateer hadn't come out and said that "yes, factions lacking in models need to be caught up to the rest" at Lock and Load.

Either factions that lack in models are fine, as you say -- in which case, Hordes players have nothing to complain about. Or, it's like Privateer says and factions with less diversity need to be caught up -- in which case Retribution has just as much right to complain as any Hordes faction does.

[magi]

Well, if they continue to release one faction from Colossals a month, we'll probably start seeing stuff from Gargantuans releasing around November, give or take. Unless they want to start releasing some of the Gargantuans while they're also releasing the Colossals.

I'd say more like September. The MK is already set for production, and with one release per month, they'd have to start in September to have all of the Gargantuans released by the end of the year.

My guess based on what we've seen:

Sep. - Mountain King (limited pre-release means the molds are set and ready for mass production, probably just days before L&L)
Oct. - Woldwrath (the green is finished; Simon was hoping to play one at L&L, meaning they may be close to making pre-production prototypes)
Nov. - Archangel (the green has been seen, but it is only about 1/2 finished)
Dec. - Mammoth (only concept art has been shown)

[PG_Sobek]

I'd say more like September. The MK is already set for production, and with one release per month, they'd have to start in September to have all of the Gargantuans released by the end of the year.

If that's their goal....

[PG_vengence88]

Why does Warmachine always release its book at the start of that books' releases and Hordes always has to wait several months in?

[SteakAndSpirits]

...but I want an Oompa Loompa nooooOoooOOooOOOooow!

-s&s

[Crate123]

Why does Warmachine always release its book at the start of that books' releases and Hordes always has to wait several months in?

Because otherwise Hordes would get 2 books in a row and A LOT of people would be pissed.

[PG_vengence88]

Because otherwise Hordes would get 2 books in a row and A LOT of people would be pissed.

I think u misunderstand me. Warmachine got the Stormwall a month after the first colossal release, whereas hordes will have several months of releases before they get their book. I think its easier to wait on models when u actually know which ones you'll actually play/buy.

[bouncymischa]

Why does Warmachine always release its book at the start of that books' releases and Hordes always has to wait several months in?

Huh? Normally Warmachine books release midway through their release cycle. Look at Wrath -- when did the first Battle Engines start appearing? January. When did the book come out? Summer of 2011?

Colossals is just an aberration in the process... if anything, I'm guessing that the Colossals started hitting the shelves late, seeing as most Warmachine books release during the summer.