Polarity shield and charges questions

[revrandom]

If a warjack spends a focus to charge and targets a model with polarity shield what happens?

If a unit gives a charge/run order and targets a model with Polarity shield, what happens?

What happens if the models are moved before the players realize it was an illegal charge.

Do the charging models/units lose their activations or can they declare new charge targets after being denied by polarity shield?

Thanks!

[quindraco]

If a warjack spends a focus to charge and targets a model with polarity shield what happens?

If a unit gives a charge/run order and targets a model with Polarity shield, what happens?

What happens if the models are moved before the players realize it was an illegal charge.

Do the charging models/units lose their activations or can they declare new charge targets after being denied by polarity shield?

Thanks!

Declaring the Polarity Shielded model as your charge target is inherently illegal, so if you do it accidentally, rewind the game state back to before you did so. This includes if the models moved. If you're too far along for this to be feasible, you have two options:

1) In a casual game, come to an agreement with your opponent.
2) In a tournament, ask the TO what to do.

[jandrese]

If you declare a charge target at a model with Polarity shield, simply redeclare on something else. If there are no legal targets in LOS, then make a run instead.

[Nion]

If you declare a charge target at a model with Polarity shield, simply redeclare on something else.

Unless I missed something, the rulebook isn't clear if declaring the Charge and the target are part of the same step, or different steps. If they are different steps, then declaring an illegal Charge target means you pick a new, legal target. If they are one combined step, then declaring an illegal Charge means you choose a new action.

If there are no legal targets in LOS, then make a run instead.

This is only correct if a unit was Charging. Warcasters and Solos select Charge and Run separately.

[Crate123]

Unless I missed something, the rulebook isn't clear if declaring the Charge and the target are part of the same step, or different steps. If they are different steps, then declaring an illegal Charge target means you pick a new, legal target. If they are one combined step, then declaring an illegal Charge means you choose a new action.

This is only correct if a unit was Charging. Warcasters and Solos select Charge and Run separately.

Declaring an illegal charge doesnt mean you pick something else to do, you rewind to the last space in time where your game was legal and then you resume from there. In this case that would be when you say "I declare a charge" then you pick something else other than the model with polarity shield on it.

EDIT: You check what is legal to charge before you actually declare a charge. The above is a tad wrong.

[Driver]

So if you declare a charge on a polarity shield model and the only other models in Los are friendly, do you have to charge them?

[vintersbastard]

So if you declare a charge on a polarity shield model and the only other models in Los are friendly, do you have to charge them?

Remember, you cannot declare a charge against a model with Polarity Shield. It's simply not available.

Now, if you are forced to charge for some reason (e.g. a charge order while affected by Icy Grip, frenzy, etc.), then yes, you have to choose a friendly model as the target.

[solkan]

Now, if you are forced to charge for some reason (e.g. a charge order while affected by Icy Grip, frenzy, etc.), then yes, you have to choose a friendly model as the target.

That's not how "Icy Grip v. charge order" plays out.
Here's the ruling:

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...=1#post1203876

Issue charge order.
Model must pick run or charge.
Check for restrictions on chosen option, and follow what's in the rulebook for them.

Follow the link if you'd like to see Macalla confirm that the model really can choose the "impossible" option and then be subject to "must X" vs. "cannot X".

For the record, I had been completely convinced it couldn't possibly work this way, too.

If you declare an illegal charge, you apologize to your opponent for wasting time, rewind to the nearest legal game state, and try to do something allowable.

But illegal charge targets do not work like illegal spell targets. Spells are explicitly a multi-step process where you pay the cost well before declaring a target, putting the previous legal game state the point where you spend the focus to cast. Charges are simply "Declare a charge and its target before moving the model". Just like you do not separate the buying of an additional attack from the decision of which model to attack or which weapon to use.

[vintersbastard]

That's not how "Icy Grip v. charge order" plays out.

Thanks for the reminder; so the charge order example is out.

If you declare an illegal charge, you apologize to your opponent for wasting time, rewind to the nearest legal game state, and try to do something allowable.

But illegal charge targets do not work like illegal spell targets. Spells are explicitly a multi-step process where you pay the cost well before declaring a target, putting the previous legal game state the point where you spend the focus to cast. Charges are simply "Declare a charge and its target before moving the model". Just like you do not separate the buying of an additional attack from the decision of which model to attack or which weapon to use.

Well, I was thinking of effects that require a charge; I can't think of anything except for frenzying and Asphyxious2's feat that allow no other option.

[solkan]

Ah, yeah, I see your point there. If you're in a mandatory charge situation and you try to choose something with a "You cannot charge me" rule, then I agree that would fall under the "Rewind, and choose something that you can charge" scenario.

Although, personally, I wouldn't want to be quoted on the interaction of Frenzy and Polarity Shield without the chance to check for rulings. I'm pretty sure step 5 of the frenzy list's "If unable to charge," would apply if the model with Polarity Shield is the closest model in LOS of the warbeast. But the search is being a bit wonky at the moment.

[Driver]

So, if I am in a game and I declare a charge against a polarity shielded model, can I then trample towards him? Or do I have to charge something?

[Crate123]

You declaration of a charge was illegal, so rewind to the last stage of the game that was legal (right before you declared the charge presumebly). You could trample towards him yes since a trample isnt made at any model, its merely a direction.

[Gamingdevil]

Declaring an illegal charge doesnt mean you pick something else to do, you rewind to the last space in time where your game was legal and then you resume from there. In this case that would be when you say "I declare a charge" then you pick something else other than the model with polarity shield on it.

You declaration of a charge was illegal, so rewind to the last stage of the game that was legal (right before you declared the charge presumebly). You could trample towards him yes since a trample isnt made at any model, its merely a direction.

Crate, you're contradicting yourself, first you say that when you declare a charge, you are committed and must simply charge something else, then you say you can rewind to before declaring the charge.

I'm with your first interpretation, that declaring a charge and declaring its target are different steps and you must return to before you declared the target.

[Crate123]

Crate, you're contradicting yourself, first you say that when you declare a charge, you are committed and must simply charge something else, then you say you can rewind to before declaring the charge.

I'm with your first interpretation, that declaring a charge and declaring its target are different steps and you must return to before you declared the target.

Yeah, I reread the main attack sequence (page 245 of Prime) and noticed that you determine first what you can target and then after that you declare the charge.
So you would see that the enemy model has Polarity Shield on it, so you can not target it (with a charge) so you can not legally declare a charge on it.
In my first post I was of the assumption that you would go "I declare a charge!" and then "and I want to charge that guy over there.." this is wrong so I changed my answer in the next post.