What DOES Mountain King have going for it?

[Crate123]

Happy on the downside you missed a 6 threshold.


BTW is the MK considered a Dire Troll? For eDoomy's free animus ability.

Not unless they errata it, he isnt listed as a diretroll.

[PG_Celedor]

I'm sorry to repeat myself. But the more I think about his decent threat range, his Kill Shot ability, and the potency of that spray attack, the more I like it.

While we've made clear the point that he can be killed in one turn, that won't necessarily always be the case. Assuming you neutralize opponent threats and they are unable to remove him immediately (which will more often be the case, think about how well we can protect Mulg for multiple rounds of smashing), it will be difficult for warnouns to avoid that crazy spray or mitigate it's reach and devastation to their forces. And if a warnoun is avoiding the spray, there's a good chance they're making themselves vulnerable to other vectors of attack.

[Invaderzahn]

Wouldn't the fact that he makes is own whelps means that you could theoretically max him out on fury every turn then have him eat a whelp to keep from frenzying making him 0 impact on the 'lock?

[PG_petegrrrr]

He would have to take damage to spawn those whelps, and the issue is, generally your opponent is going to have him damaged by something that can potentially kill him.

I think he will be at least a little useful for a month or two, as players won't be used to the threat range on a spray like that in trolls, but once they become familiar with him, MK will lose a lot of his potency.

The pureblood has almost the exact same spray (-2 pow but plus magical) and he is generally considered the least of all the warpwolves. And unlike the warpwolf, MK can't benefit from movement hijinks to position before his activation to aim.

[skurkious]

Positives: AWESOME MODEL!!
Pow 15 primal shock
kill shot is pretty sweet
He will definitely draw a lot of attention to himself, leaving room for others to slip around enemy lines(EBDT)

Negatives: Just too many points for what he can do. Plus to get him up to maximum potential you need to fill out the rest of your army with support models for him. Just seems like too many eggs in one basket and the basket is full of holes...

[themocaw]

Would you take MK if he had Assault instead of Kill Shot? How about Quick Work?

[FranzGrenstein]

Pros:
Gargantuan power attacks
Whelp factory
Primal shock is really good
8” inch two handed throw
Spray 10 pow 16 (pretty good)
Surefoot
Killshot –conditional but seem pretty good (If the MK is still in H2H does it still make the ranged attack?)
Amuck is not bad
Armor same as mulg
Terror is ok against non undead/ high command models

Cons:
slightly pillow fisted compared to Colossals (gargantuan?)
Mat -1 standard heavy!!!!!
Rat same rat that makes scat gunners, and cleansers; at least the units have quantity to make up for the rat.
Can’t goad
Threshold no good
20 points
Amuck: has limited use with troll beasts
The already expensive MK needs beasts and other support to perform on par with colossal.
Animus is beast centric, it does not help the caster.

[PG_LunarSol]

Killshot –conditional but seem pretty good (If the MK is still in H2H does it still make the ranged attack?)

Yes. Colossals and Gargantuans can always make ranged attacks, even when in melee. They don't have to target a model they are in melee with either.

[Cleavelander]

I'm liking The idea of Surefoot on MK with a bubble of fennblades & UA. Set defense puts them at def 16 against charge attacks.

Add in a bomber for girded and everyone can hitch a ride on the no blast damage train.

[Loki77515]

Would you take MK if he had Assault instead of Kill Shot? How about Quick Work?

I guess its early to be really talking about what he would need to be "fixed," but...

Were this a field test for Mk. III, or whatever, I would suggest 2 more circles of health in Spirit, MAT 6, Regeneration d3, PC 19 and Critical Stagger on his ranged attack.

Quick Work would allow him to make multiple shots per activation, wouldn't it? I think that is a bit much on a POW 16 SP 10.

He is really close to being solid, but just not there.

[jandrese]

Amuck is nice on beasts that want to trample over a Winterguard deathstar or something. I'm not sure how much use it will be on the Mountain King itself though. I've found sweep to be fairly hard to use since you can't make one on a charge.

[Loki77515]

Pros:
8” inch two handed throw

He would get 7.5" throw. You don't round up when calculating distances.

[PG_somnicide]

Wow, I can't believe I am about to say this, but I kind of like eGrissel's feat with him. Don't misconstrue that statement to mean she has a good feat by any stretch of the imagination. But the MK actually kind of likes it.

[ElCapitan28]

Wow, I can't believe I am about to say this, but I kind of like eGrissel's feat with him. Don't misconstrue that statement to mean she has a good feat by any stretch of the imagination. But the MK actually kind of likes it.

Even if he can't use half of it?

[PG_somnicide]

Nobody uses that half of it ;-) Hyperaggressive is a trap. Always*. +2 armor in melee was the thing I was referring to.

*Assumes your opponent knows the rule.

[Benopotomus]

The Mtn King really makes me appreciate the War Wagon a lot more. The WW's Line-Breaker/trample is just about as likely to occur as Sweep and hits more accurately and about as hard.

Also, the weapon battery allows him to always use both of his ranged attacks. The AOE 5 is just as powerful as the Mtn King spray (sans boosting) and he's got another spray for more carnage. The +2 SPD on the WW is like having the Mtn King have Rush at all times. All the knockdown potential really make the WW a threat.

Heck, I'm starting to think 2 WW is our Colossal at this point. Two of them (18) have about as much HP and 4 shots. Also, being a construct is pretty awesome in the right circumstances.

I know the whelps and regen/fury/animus will make some people really excited, but I can already do all those things.

[PG_joedj]

Janissa and eGrissel behind EBDT/MK.

For a mild surprise I like eGrissel's Rift shot into my MK's back, after she's given him the EBDT's Transmute. Then if the EBDT is b2b with MK, both get +2 Spd for 2 Fury, and both have Pathfinder. A pseudo Seraph-animus effect.

[zor]

The sky is falling, the world is ending. The Mountain King is good, have no fear.

[cryptomancer]

As much as having to take an Axer is being lamented with this guy, I really do think they're meant to work together. Amuck helps the Axer fantastically (or at least that's my experience, since I tend to find myself forced to clear vast swathes of DEF:14 infantry every bloody game) and Rush helps the King get where he can actually make use of those power attacks. And correct me if I'm wrong (it would hardly be the first time) but the King can advance under Rush, cast Amuck (wiping out Rush), and then make his power attacks, yes? So that puts the things out to a 9" threat. Not too shabby.

-crypto

[Cannibalbob]

Even with Amuck he is going to have a tough time dealing with infantry that sports very high defense or gets defensive buffs such as Iron Flesh. Any infantry that hits 16+ def is going to be able to bog down the Mountain King and require you to send in something else to clear him out. Mat-5 is just ugh...

[FranzGrenstein]

As much as having to take an Axer is being lamented with this guy, I really do think they're meant to work together. Amuck helps the Axer fantastically (or at least that's my experience, since I tend to find myself forced to clear vast swathes of DEF:14 infantry every bloody game) and Rush helps the King get where he can actually make use of those power attacks. And correct me if I'm wrong (it would hardly be the first time) but the King can advance under Rush, cast Amuck (wiping out Rush), and then make his power attacks, yes? So that puts the things out to a 9" threat. Not too shabby.

-crypto

Yep, our skorne player puts rush on the BB charges, at the end of movement before attacks, he forces for trainwreck, and the tiny dancer dances around the board.

[PG_LunarSol]

In a lot of ways having Rush on MK and Amuck on the axer would work a lot better, but I'm very glad its the other way around.

[The Happy Anarchist]

Happy on the downside you missed a 6 threshold.

BTW is the MK considered a Dire Troll? For eDoomy's free animus ability.

Quoting to emphasize - the threshold is a huge problem. You can never afford to leave even one fury on him. Also, no he is not a Dire Troll.

I'm sorry to repeat myself. But the more I think about his decent threat range, his Kill Shot ability, and the potency of that spray attack, the more I like it.

While we've made clear the point that he can be killed in one turn, that won't necessarily always be the case. Assuming you neutralize opponent threats and they are unable to remove him immediately (which will more often be the case, think about how well we can protect Mulg for multiple rounds of smashing), it will be difficult for warnouns to avoid that crazy spray or mitigate it's reach and devastation to their forces. And if a warnoun is avoiding the spray, there's a good chance they're making themselves vulnerable to other vectors of attack.

Mulg is significantly easier to protect. You have extra points for screening infantry, the wall is actually able to be in front of him instead of to the side or behind - and even if the wall was in front of the MtK it doesn't protect as well and still leaves room for many things to get in. Mulg starts at Def 11 so going to 13/15/17 with the various buffs we can give matters a lot more.

That said, I think the spray is a key thing. Getting a bit of damage on a caster early can seriously change the way the game plays out. It is one of my favorite things to do.

I'm liking The idea of Surefoot on MK with a bubble of fennblades & UA. Set defense puts them at def 16 against charge attacks.

Add in a bomber for girded and everyone can hitch a ride on the no blast damage train.

I'll be trying the first part - the Bomber part is a trap. It is hard enough on order of activations and eyeballing distance to keep the Fenns in 3" of the base, trying to eyeball to get in base to base would be virtually impossible. I tried the surefoot bubble with the War Wagon and it did well enough, but I think it has much more potential with the MtK.

Since quotes aren't working anymore.

@Somnicide - I actually had the same thought myself. It is leagues better with her - and you are right. The Hyper Aggressive part is somewhat awful and it doesn't matter a little that he can't use that part. Moreover, Grissel can use the knockdown to let the spray hit easier, or let it get melee beats going on. Relying on knockdown has problems as I have mentioned, but it still works more often than not. Dash doesn't do much, and IG does as much/little as it always does. I'll give it a shot, but I imagine that we can do better.

@PG_joedj - You meant pGrissel right?

@cryptomancer - I agree. I get that they are nominally supposed to do the same thing, but frankly I have a hard time taking the Storm troll to deal with infantry. I am never taking a 20 point model to deal with infantry. That is not actually its job, its job must be to be immovable, beat on hard targets (which it needs help doing) and occasionally tag a solo/caster with the super spray. It also has the ability to clear infantry but that is 100% not why you would take it.

Letting the Axer boost all his attack rolls on the thresher for 1 fury? Solid gold - though keep in mind you cannot Rush the Axer and get Amuck, like you can with the MtK. Maybe best with eDoomy? I always had WA upkept on him and ended up activating the Axer first before feating, just to get the 3 Wild Aggression bounce, but with MtK you don't have that order of activation issue.