Bad Seeds Stories.

[Weezinggg]

I think Epic Magnus Bad Seeds list is a really great theme force but i dont hear about people using it that often.

You've got Renegade+Defender assassination threat.
Rangers+Ambushing Sword Knights are amazing tools for scenario play.
You get the chance to try out a bunch of anti-cygnar models with cygnar.

I was wondering how you guys use this list or what experiences you have had with or against it.

[pattison]

*Fires up the GlassJaw signal

Edit: I also own 50pts of Bad Seeds, and yes, it's great and fluffy. The only problematic part is high ARM.
But quite many of those models are wielding shields, and you have access to Manglers, so...

[OMM_Lukav]

*Fires up the GlassJaw signal

I was about to say the same thing. Glassjaw did a great write up on Bad Seeds. There are also a lot of threads about unit choices. I myself think i will be trying the BS with Galleon + Master Gunner combo.

[MagnustheJust]

There are about 147 different threads over in the List Discussion about Bad Seeds.

Part of me is torn... I like what the list does.

But I don't want to buy icky electric chicken stuff!!




At the same time, I may be adding Highborne options if a deal I am brokering goes through -

Ashlynn, 2 ARGM units, and one UA for dirt cheap.

[PG_ikildkenny]

I was about to say the same thing. Glassjaw did a great write up on Bad Seeds. There are also a lot of threads about unit choices. I myself think i will be trying the BS with Galleon + Master Gunner combo.

you are aware, that you cannot take Galleon and Master Gunner in Bad Seeds ... so only with eMagnus ... in a regular List

[LiamPiver]

I've run him successfully in tourneys and I think I've won all of them on turn 2 by assasination or turn 3 by scenario. Very good list.

I only run it at 50 though as I can't fit what I want in it at 35.

[MidnightFox0083]

you are aware, that you cannot take Galleon and Master Gunner in Bad Seeds ... so only with eMagnus ... in a regular List

He means the Trencher Master Gunner, not MacNaile.

However, you are correct that you can't bring the Galleon in Bad Seeds.

[Duke Lisle]

I will be running Tier 4 Bad Seeds in a tournament this weekend at 35 points, though I only have experience with Bad Seeds at the 15 point level. I will be ambushing Saxon and the max sword knights with UA, so my plan is to run up the side of the board (so long as it is not kill box) with my jacks (Renegade, Defender, and a Nomad and my solos and rangers, and wait for Magnus' Nomad and post shot renegade to engage; THEN ambush and get the flanking+ charge bonus. does that make sense?

Magnus' feat will be used to prevent assassination runs while he gets up there, since not a lot of my infantry will be on the board at the beginning. Also I will keep my eye out for the Renegade+defender assassination option.

Edit: Oh I should also mention that my reinforcement will be an additional Renegade jack, for that ranged shot goodness right out of the side board.

[Joasht]

I personally have a few issues trying to wrap my head around him, mainly because I've not played against him, or with him. Usually, most casters have some defined way of working, but he seems to have "a bit of this, a bit of that", but not in the same way as, say, Macbain who is clearly designed to be a toolbox. For example; does he really need three offensive spells?

In my head it feels like he's just there to keep up mobility and to use his feat at some point in time. If you are lucky you get to Backstab someone with an Obliteration, or even kill something with him (if you ever get him there) while keeping Bullet Dodger on himself to keep him alive. Maybe theres more to this, but it feels like.....its almost like having a PoM caster, kinda. Haha...

[OMM_Lukav]

He means the Trencher Master Gunner, not MacNaile.

However, you are correct that you can't bring the Galleon in Bad Seeds.

Yes I did mean Trencher Master Gunner. I don't have the rules in front of me, but I though he could take any merc warjack and a few Cygnar in Bad Seeds. Is that not the case?

[Ayrix]

Yes I did mean Trencher Master Gunner. I don't have the rules in front of me, but I though he could take any merc warjack and a few Cygnar in Bad Seeds. Is that not the case?

I'm fairly certain Bad Seeds allows specifically, Manglers, Nomads, Rovers, mules and one defender. I wish to my lucky stars that it said Mercenary Non-character warjacks. If I'm wrong please correct me, I'll be way happier.

[baronvonchaos]

Yes I did mean Trencher Master Gunner. I don't have the rules in front of me, but I though he could take any merc warjack and a few Cygnar in Bad Seeds. Is that not the case?

The only thing that semi-worries me is if the Galleon is not considered a "non-character warjack," Shae's pirates life is boned. I know 3Nemo's tier list specifically states the colossal "Stormwall," however, not seeing the actual PPS release of this it could be listed under Available Warjacks. It's so up in the air now. I want Galleon to work in tier lists. Bad Seeds, Most Wanted, and A pirates life NEED him.

[baronvonchaos]

I'm 2 models and a unit short of T4 50pts Bad Seeds.

I did a 15pt Mangled Metal and I took eMags, Charger, Defender, and a Mangler. Could have swapped the Mangler and charger for 2 nomads or 2 renegades, but the skull cracking was what I wanted to go for. Defender and Charger did great in blasting 1-2 jack/beast while the mangler positioned itself for the charge during eMags' feat turn. . It was cool. It was a little bit gruesome though. "Yeah this is what's going to happen to you and you can't do a thing about it. Feat Turn."

[JamesDiGriz]

Lets see:

My Saxton Orric has many notches on his rifle from following the SK on then killing all sorts of support.
I have used SK + Feat to take objectives from behind his lines
SK in general are fun to throw behind his lines and watch him turn around to deal with.
Super accurate Oblits are fun .

[OMM_Lukav]

I know 3Nemo's tier list specifically states the colossal "Stormwall," however, not seeing the actual PPS release of this it could be listed under Available Warjacks. It's so up in the air now. I want Galleon to work in tier lists. Bad Seeds, Most Wanted, and A pirates life NEED him.

While this is true there is no section on his, or any other caster's tier, that says colossals. Just Warjacks, Units, Solos, Battle Engines. It also does not specifically mention stormwalls in the warjack listing.

EDIT:
I have the book so I can verify it 100%.

[MagnustheJust]

I can definitely see Bart above all other Merc casters having access to Galleon in his theme force.

MacBain!! is a maybe, as well as both Mags and Shae.

Everyone else, not so much...

[MidnightFox0083]

While this is true there is no section on his, or any other caster's tier, that says colossals. Just Warjacks, Units, Solos, Battle Engines. It also does not specifically mention stormwalls in the warjack listing.

EDIT:
I have the book so I can verify it 100%.

And regardless of that, Bad Seeds doesn't say "non-Character Mercenary Warjacks", it only names the specific Merc Jacks he can take. So, while eMags will most likely have access to Galleon in Agenda, there's no way(barring an errata) for him to bring Galleon in Bad Seeds.

[MagnustheJust]

I'm fairly certain Bad Seeds allows specifically, Manglers, Nomads, Rovers, mules and one defender. I wish to my lucky stars that it said Mercenary Non-character warjacks. If I'm wrong please correct me, I'll be way happier.

It's Renegades, Talons, Manglers, Mules, Rovers, and Nomads.

Tier 1 grants access to : Chargers, Sentinels, and one Defender.


And while on the subject of Mags2 theme forces, I still say that his original theme - The Magnus Agenda - would be completely playable if tier 3 required Saxon Orrik, not TWO UNITSof Idrian Skirmishers!!

But I digress, as that is a separate thread entirely...

[Weezinggg]

You guys said glassjaw had a tactica on the forums? I was looking around and cant find it.
As for dealing with high armor we do have mangler/nomad and you could always take trenchers for CMA, on feat turn they basically get a free turn to fire and then next turn assault

[Weezinggg]

usuallu i bring Min Commandos with 3 scattergunners and 2 Ranger units or Max Trenchers With UA, 1 Grenadier and 1 Ranger unit.

Commandos deal with infantry better and having dual Rangers is as awesome as it sounds.

Trenchers can dish out more damage to bigger targets and protect EMags on his feat turn (and every other turn actually)

[MagnustheJust]

You guys said glassjaw had a tactica on the forums? I was looking around and cant find it.
As for dealing with high armor we do have mangler/nomad and you could always take trenchers for CMA, on feat turn they basically get a free turn to fire and then next turn assault

Dunno if this is the thing-a-mah-jigger you wanted, but give this a whirl :

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...ighlight=Seeds

[Weezinggg]

Thanks for that link MagnusTheJust and thank you GlassJaw for the great info.

[JoeGuardsman]

I think my favorite experience with the list so far has been Saxon killing a bane thrall standard to take out the tough rolls. Down side is that the sword knights failed a terror test on tartarus and I didn't kill anything else.

[Weezinggg]

The Sword knight standard could help mitigate that problem, but i understand your feelings. I had full unit of bog trogs charge a seether and slayer on ambush turn and just ran away scared...wish they had a UA or something that could easily reach them to give fearless

[Duke Lisle]

Anyone have any opinions on using the sentinel vs. the charger? It seems like the charger really needs 3 focus on him to be effective. The sentinel, on the other hand, doesn't need any since he no longer needs to boost to hit with the rangers+ trencher master gunner. I figure with Calamity from Magnus on the enemy/unit he's hitting just as hard as the charger would be (plus a bonus to hit!), with just as many shots, if not more. Same points cost.

Opinions?

[MagnustheJust]

Most of the lists I have seen to this point, have not had either. The bulk have had 2 Renegades, a Defender, and a Nomad. Several lists have had two units of Sword Kuhniggets - one with UA for ambush, and one with a Talon for extra whoop-arse.

If you have a buddy who {Ewwwwwwwww!!} plays Squignar, ask to borrow a few warjacks and see what works better for you...

[pattison]

I don't see the Charger as something worth taking in Bad Seeds, the Sentinel though may save Magnus' butt on his feat turn when he's most threatened by ranged attacks typically.

[LiamPiver]

Yep, Sentinels are good with Magnus. The problem is that you can run two or a Mangler. That's a tough decision at times.

And don't forget about power attacks with that little guy. I find I never use them with the Charger, but I will with the Sentinel.

[PG_ikildkenny]

I've been testing BadSeeds recently as my second list (first is a inf-heavy gorten) ... which has to be Jack Heavy ...

after some testing this is my momentary list:

eMag
-Renegade
-Renegade
-Defender
-Mule
-Mangler (bonded)
Rangers
Trencher Master gunner
Orin
Kell
Saxon
max Swordknights + UA

so far I lost the majority of my games - mainly because I was standing completely allone for my feat (got to gready and hasty) and simply got shot/circle-stoneport-kill [I ALLWAYS miss those]..

BUT ... it works amazingly well ... in Turn 1 you can RUN your jacks 14" up the bord ... for zone-based szenarios this is simply horrifying for most opponent ... your right in there face
in case you go second you imediatly have a ranged thread @ 21/23" (mobility) with your renegades and the defender and their free focus ...

my "earlier drafts" hat a sentinel and to nomads in exchange for the Mangler and the Mule - I missed the crowd controll options though - midwinter and Kell are simply not enough to deal with swarms and since the sentinel's job is to shield magnus he rarely comes up front far enough to make use of his strafe ability ... so I exchanged a bit of safety and bodies for the multikill options the mule and the Mangler present

as a sidenote... @ 50 pts NOTHING can escape a ambushing unit ... and a nasty one at that ...

things I consider atm:

dropping the mule for sentinel and talon (safer option with less crownd controll + a focus saving option more (Stall vs. boost to hit) and as a bonus a potential 16"+2" Run + Reach model to give the swordknights reach ...

I'd appreciate any comments on the list and the ideas ... but mainly I'm just posting this FYI

[LiamPiver]

I run the exact same list but with two Manglers instead of a Mangler and a Mule. I've had great success with it. Lots of lockdown when you run the Manglers about 4 inches apart down the board. That's a rather large line of you shall not pass.

[Ayrix]

One option to keep in mind with Bad Seeds is to NOT ambush your sword knights and instead marshal a talon to them.

Its a 4 point, speed 6 jack with reach and a shield which is something Cygnar completely lacks. I cannot tell you how much I love pronto'ing a talon into range and getting an easy flank.

Along with calamity these boys can hit hard and make an excellent screening unit for Magnus, and the whole package is only 12 points. His feat can prevent retaliation if you charge your sword knights at a big target that the enemy over extended.

[JoeGuardsman]

I feel the Sentinel is necessary. You'll lose a lot of ability to run the feat aggressively (which is the way I prefer) if you don't have a shield guard to shrug off the one big shot that will make you killable.

Maybe other people don't play eMags on the 36" line though trying to catch every necessary model in the feat.

[SpiralingCadaver]

I love the list, it's the only way I regularly field eMagnus. Playing the combination of commandoes and rangers is brutal in ways I can only begin to describe. Unfortunately, I hardly ever get any use out of eMagnus, himself, outside of a feat and focus battery. I find his spells are just silly expensive, or not too useful.

I've got a fair number of notes in my sig link, if interested...

[Dakkaface]

I personally love Bad Seeds - I use it more than any other Merc tier, and it's really fun. A note on Sentinels - I find them incredibly useful. Shield Guard allows you to safeguard your Renegades so you don't lose the rockets before firing, or Magnus himself during the feat turn. They're pretty much hands off - use Calamity or Rangers to provide passive buffs and they'll have no problem hitting.

I have actually used a Sentinel as my bonded jack several times. People tend to ignore the 4-point jack with a Pow 10 gun. The first time a heavy turns it's back to it and you annihilate it in one turn tends to make people sit up and pay attention though. d6 shots with +2, +4 or +6 to hit, that get 3d6(+2 if the target's Calamity'd) apiece before boosting is nothing to sneeze at - I took an Earthborn Dire Troll from full health to down to two boxes with one set of backstabbing shots.

[Rustoof]

I think bad seeds sucks.

The double renegade + defender assasination is ridiculously focus hungry and ties up a lot of your points.

To use magnus' feat you leave him very vulnerable to ranged assasination.

Swordknights? Cygnar players ***** that our infantry is so much better. why you want sword knights? Talons? You mean 4 points of waste?

Seriously, I have yet to figure out why bad seeds is better than an average merc list.

With that said if i was dead set on running emagnus (imo possibly our worst caster) i would run bad seeds.

[MagnustheJust]

I think bad seeds sucks.

The double renegade + defender assasination is ridiculously focus hungry and ties up a lot of your points.

To use magnus' feat you leave him very vulnerable to ranged assasination.

Swordknights? Cygnar players ***** that our infantry is so much better. why you want sword knights? Talons? You mean 4 points of waste?

Seriously, I have yet to figure out why bad seeds is better than an average merc list.

With that said if i was dead set on running emagnus (imo possibly our worst caster) i would run bad seeds.

Read your cards, and then re-read your cards. Then read them backwards. The read them sideways, alternating forwards and backwards from the middle!!

Then you might see the very potent combos that are present in this list.

Also, it has been proven many times over, that Electric Chicken units are far more effective as Mercenary units...

[DocMerc]

I think bad seeds sucks.

The double renegade + defender assasination is ridiculously focus hungry and ties up a lot of your points.

To use magnus' feat you leave him very vulnerable to ranged assasination.

Swordknights? Cygnar players ***** that our infantry is so much better. why you want sword knights? Talons? You mean 4 points of waste?

Seriously, I have yet to figure out why bad seeds is better than an average merc list.

With that said if i was dead set on running emagnus (imo possibly our worst caster) i would run bad seeds.

Is there anything about the mercs that you like?
So far this morning:
Bad seeds sucks
Ossrum is the worst caster ever and "his feat blows"
and Gallion is junk

Should you be playing Mercs, or would you be happier with another faction?
I am seriously asking dude, 'cause there is a lot of negativity from you toward the mercs

[Weezinggg]

I think bad seeds sucks.

The double renegade + defender assasination is ridiculously focus hungry and ties up a lot of your points.

To use magnus' feat you leave him very vulnerable to ranged assasination.

Swordknights? Cygnar players ***** that our infantry is so much better. why you want sword knights? Talons? You mean 4 points of waste?

Seriously, I have yet to figure out why bad seeds is better than an average merc list.

With that said if i was dead set on running emagnus (imo possibly our worst caster) i would run bad seeds.

TROLL ALERT!
Haha Renegade+Defender Combo is worth any amount of points, Ive won a handful of games by walking up turn 1 and shooting caster turn 2 with this combo.

Bullet Dodger+Sentinels are a good way to avoid ranged assasination, plus Magnus isnt exactly a squishy warcaster. Plus his feat is well worth the risk if you know how to use it.

Sword knights may not be that impressive by them selves, but factor in the ability to ambush, the fact that they ambush with saxon orrik, and how cheap our reach jacks are.

Average merc list? i find it impossible to compare any two merc warcasters, theyre just so diverse in playstyle. (Maybe MacBain because he's well rounded?)

[Dakkaface]

I think bad seeds sucks.

The double renegade + defender assasination is ridiculously focus hungry and ties up a lot of your points.

To use magnus' feat you leave him very vulnerable to ranged assasination.

Swordknights? Cygnar players ***** that our infantry is so much better. why you want sword knights? Talons? You mean 4 points of waste?

Seriously, I have yet to figure out why bad seeds is better than an average merc list.

With that said if i was dead set on running emagnus (imo possibly our worst caster) i would run bad seeds.

These are the Merc forums, not the Trollblood forums. As pointed out, perhaps this isn't the faction for you?

That said - Double Renegade + Defender isn't as focus hungry as you make it out to be. Rangers, Calamity and aiming can give you up to +6 to hit, and the Master Gunner can push a Renegade to +8. You only need hand out 3 focus on the assassination run, and possibly use one for upkeeping Calamity. Yeah, it costs you a fair number of points, but the list is heavily weighted on the ranged side anyway.

Magnus is meant to use his feat with Bullet Dodger up and preferably standing in cover/concealment or behind a jack/terrain. Of course he'll die if you just plunk him out there and rely on the fact that he probably won't be charged to protect him, but good placement will force him to shoot at you through very high DEF - I had DEF 20 on Magnus when he was behind a low obstacle and had Bullet Dodger up - and a missed shot allows him to reposition to prevent further shooting.

I only go to T3 on Bad Seeds, so I can't comment on the knights.

Bad Seeds is a heavily ranged focused list with a lot of speed for first turn jamming, and lots of passive buffs and access to some of Cygnar's jacks that don't require too much focus, which is perfect for eMags as he is ALWAYS starved for focus to hand out.