Tharn heavy archers

[PG_LEJKaya]

They could always follow the example of our other tharn ranged unit...

[santospr]

I think weapon master would then screw with bloodtracker real estate. It would be awesome....kind of.

In the end, we aren't a ranged focused faction. I seriously doubt anything they could give us with these guys would be good enough to be seen regularly like bloodtrackers and/or woldstalkers.

On the plus side, plastic ravagers sounds cool, especially if they change around some of the poses.

[SillySod]

Armour piercing bodkins?

[Gladius]

The problems with this are:
a ) We already have a unit which is supposed to pop out of the trees and rain missiles on you: Reeves of Orboros. And we all know how that turned out.

b ) We already have a short ranged, hard-hitting unit - Tharn Bloodtrackers. It's really hard to replace those girls in terms of functionality.

I'd really love it if the Ravager Archers do something really different. Privateer Press seems to have painted themselves into a corner with Circle ranged options. On one hand, we've got a long ranged unit which is pretty bad. On the other hand, we have several short ranged options with good threat ranges which range from good to excellent. So giving us ranged support options (i.e. warlocks with ranged buff spells) isn't really going to fix Reeves and will most likely go to enhance our already good options.

So for Ravager Archers to stand out, they really need their own niche - something they can do that none of our existing options can. And it needs to be stand alone - because committing too many pieces / points waters down the unit's effectiveness (I'm looking at you, 17-point Reeves bundle).

So Beat Back seems reasonable. Treewalker / Camouflage / Bushwack might be an option too...but then we're already reliant on forests. Maybe give them bonuses vs warbeasts or medium / large based models so that they're more heavy-hunter models.

I agree with all of this, which is why I don't want to get my hopes up too much. I think the niche that they could fill would be some sort of board control, which reeves and blood trackers don't really do.

[Brandubh]

Armour piercing bodkins?

Does this look like the Cryx forum? We'd never get something that good. If we did they'd be RAT 4 and POW 7.

I've gone back through all of the Tharn lore in the books and NQ (don't have the IKRPG stuff...so there might be hints in there) and I can't find any mentions of Tharn using bows at all. So not hints from fluff, I'm afraid.

[kaneblaise]

I guess they could have Decapitation on their bows all Princess Mononke style.

[BLUTAXT]

I guess they could have Decapitation on their bows all Princess Mononke style.

...but only by riding something like eMorvahna

[Vicomte Athos]

If PP wants to give us a cool niche ability on the Tharn Archers it would be Smite. This way it does have to be good POW to do awesome damage and gives us control to boot. Won't happen, but it'd be fun.

[Jake the Dog]

Maybe give it the Nephilim Bolt Thrower's Ballista ability: Thunderbolt (on a hit, push d3 inches, on a crit, knockdown)?

[Katkiller 5]

I seriously doubt that they will have thunderbolt, given that we already have Druids with force bolt. I'm still pulling for a high pow / weapon master / brutal shot ability to give us access to a ranged unit cabable of softening up heavies or just smashing enemy cav/heavy infantry/light jacks.

[magi]

My guess. I'm imagining a unit designed to charge a unit and use the aquired hearts to deal heavy damage with their bows:

Tharn Ravager Stats

Tree Walker, Heart Eater, Quick Work

Bow (ranged) - Range 12", P 13
Bow (melee) - P+S 10

[ShoX]

I say armor piercing. let them be Rat 4 / P+S 7 Still hits on average dice at dice -2 or -3 dmg vs the heavier stuff. Then you get CoS on a target and they go nuts...

[Mystraca]

I am really hoping for an armor piercing ranged unit The other thing from very strong archer I could see is perhaps a bonus to range if they aim much in the same way long gunners get a second shot.

[Garbin]

I'm going to call it now. Just in case so I can gloat if I guess.

RAT6, RNG12, POW13 crit slam, point blank. No melee weapon. Rest as usual Ravagers.

[PG_LEJKaya]

Better than a 5 point light beast? The impaler isn't that good!

[Mercykiller]

True, but with no way to boost the shot (unlike the impaler) the crit chance goes down like a rock in a pond. I still doubt it myself, but hey, it could be balanced in that.

[Asdrubael]

I'm hoping they have a suite of options in terms of effects applied to their ranged attacks, not unlike bloodweavers and woldstalkers. Maybe an AOE option, a brutal shot option (odds are it'd be exclusive to living targets), or an effect applied on damage/to hit that somehow offers board control (crit stranglehold?). In the very least, I hope they're predominately centered around damaging/controlling opposing heavies/lights as opposed to offering even more infantry removal.

[Menite Ninja]

Is it wise to compare (roughly) to other heavy ranged infantry? I'm still relatively new to privateer press. What other heavy ranged to we have in hordes? The skorn acuarri, the trolls loves their guns, legion have the warspears. I'm guessing that our heavy dudes won't be too far and away better than them. If anything we will be more movement shenanigans.

[Mercykiller]

It's not that easy in Warmahordes; some buffs are so universal or easily available to a faction that units have to be priced and built according to them (such as Arcane Shield being so prevalent in Cygnar; since they have a solo that can grant it and a few casters as well). That's why (hopefully) the Tharn archers end up being more powerful than you'd think, since there aren't a lot of ranged buffs in Circle. Then again, Reeves, so ....

[repentia]

my money is on if they they do have a buff it will be huntersmark, obv not what i want but also wouldnt be terrible if they where say p+S 12 hunters mark critical pierce im a realist

[Katkiller 5]

Expanding on the idea of them having high pow /and-or/ brutal shot / crit pierce

I hope, I severely hope, that they won't have to rely upon critical rolls for a special ability. Crits should be reserve for war-nouns, who are capable of boosting to enhance the chance, or on units that don't necessarily [i]need[i/] the crit to be effective.

I'm also still against the idea of them getting movement shenanigans. We already have such things as shifting stones, blackclads, warlocks with movement/place spells, druids, etc. Adding more to that category will simply continue to saturate it, and they would need additional rules to differentiate them and make them worth taking.

I also doubt that they will have individual AoE's (the arrows in the pic look just like normal arrows), but maybe they'll get the combined-fire type AoE, where they CRA for a 4" AoE or so? But I really hope that they aren't an anti-infantry unit first and foremost, we already have so much of that.. bloodtrackers, reeves, woldstalkers, even druids in a pinch, the fulcrum.. all of them can take out infantry at range, and virtually all of our melee infantry are dedicated towards taking out enemy infantry.

Its for those reasons that I really want them to be a dedicated anti-heavy infantry/jack unit. Something that can hang back and soften up the big targets for Ravagers/etc to take out. Hopefully with arcing fire so they can function as a pseduo-artillery unit, again hoping for a fourteen inch range. The pow will probably depend entirely upon the rules. Weapon master on the ranged weapon, or a brutal shot ammo type, would probably mean a pow of twelve or so, and if they don't, hopefully as high as fourteen.

I am a fan of the ammo types though. Maybe a poison shot to stick with the tharn anti-infantry theme, or brutal shot. Maybe a thunderbolt round for the second if they really want to give us more movement options. No idea on a third though.

Just me tossing out more thoughts.

[repentia]

id be happy enough with p+s12 tree walk, quick work, and gunmage like ammo and a form of internal boosting for hit (before u jump on me an say we need anti armour i know i was thinkin critical brutal shot, boosted hit would be a way of getting there)

[eliassmith27]

They are Tharn Ravagers. Don't get your hopes up to high.

We know they will have Heart Eater (or a similar rule) already as eKruger's first tier list lets them start with corps tokens.

I don't see them having better stats then the other ravagers. Maybe MAT and RAT switched.

[nverbe]

They are Tharn Ravagers. Don't get your hopes up to high.

We know they will have Heart Eater (or a similar rule) already as eKruger's first tier list lets them start with corps tokens.

I don't see them having better stats then the other ravagers. Maybe MAT and RAT switched.

We don't know they will have the ravager in their unit type at all. Tharn is about the only "typing" they will likely have, the ravager typing (Which I am hoping for, so they can make use of tactician) isn't really clear, i don't want to get my hopes up on that point. Where is it spoiled they will definitely have heart eater or anything similar? supposition based on krueger's theme isn't convincing at all, at least not enough to say "we know they will have", but i'm probably being nit-picky with your wording.

I can only hope they will have mat and rat switched cause rat 7 would be amaaaaaazing!!! but i don't think that will happen either :-(

[TheLoki]

Assault is not out of the question i would imagine.

[PG_cheddercaveman]

Assault is not out of the question i would imagine.

Its not out of the question, but I'd say that I don't expect this. You see people charge into battle firing the last shot of the gun before melee'ing. Or throwing a javelin, just feels more expected. If the bows are as large as implied this just doesn't quite "fit" with the idea of charging into battle with them.

[TheLoki]

Fair enough. Just bouncing ideas off a wall

[santospr]

I really hope they don't have armor piercing. It always seems like a great idea, even on paper, but without a consistent way to boost dmg, it kind of sucks against most targets. It would be great at killing other ravagers really. I hope for high powered shots (ravagers are P+S 13 so at least that).

The white man will have great synergy with the unit, giving them ranked attacks and giving them some protection against enemies who decide to engage, assuming that these guys aren't great in melee. Add in a woldwarden as back up, or mannikens, and suddenly they always have treewalker up and are rocking DEF 15 in combat. A range unit would benefit more from it, especially to receive charges, more so than the melee focused counterpart.

[nverbe]

maybe not assault... but maybe assault and battery!

[ringsnake]

So long as they're better than Reeves, I'm good with whatever they end up with. Like most, I'm not getting my hopes up.

[PG_Killface]

So I normally dont post alot but id like to throw my 2 cents in. What if they were like Mage Hunter Strikeforce but instead had rules for dealing with beasts? I had this discussion with a friend of mine back when Ret first came out.

[kaneblaise]

So I normally dont post alot but id like to throw my 2 cents in. What if they were like Mage Hunter Strikeforce but instead had rules for dealing with beasts? I had this discussion with a friend of mine back when Ret first came out.

It's certainly possible I guess. Though that will certainly put them into the same category as Pendrake, Alten Ashley, Sentry Stone, etc. in that their worth is completely dependent on what your opponent brings, which means I'll be far less interested.

[PG_circletakesthesquare]

Poison would be saweet... And the most likely thing in my opinion.. rat 5 combined range.. point blank mat 7

[Brandubh]

Poison doesn't seem very Tharn-y. It's likely they're planning on eating whatever they're shooting. I'm still thinking Beat Back is a possibility...maybe some lightning synergy?

I do expect them to be P+S 13 on the bows and here's why. Why bother transforming into your Devourer aspect to give you the strength bonus if you're just going to shoot a bow? Wouldn't the Bloodtrackers / Wolf Riders be better in this case? So if you're going to transform, your bow should reflect your additional strength. So I'm gunning for the Hordes equivalent of D&D's Bow Strength.

[ringsnake]

I don't know why I bother, but here's my guess/hope:

Same as Ravagers except:

Drop Heart Eater
Drop axes (duh)

Range: 12" POW:11 bows
Bow blades for some pitiful melee attack damage. POW:11 probably.
Conditional boost to damage. I'd hope for finisher, but that's probably too much to expect.

I'd hope for more, but that's what I expect. If they really did get finisher that would make them worth 6-9 points at an uneducated guess.

[George Spiggott]

All these guys need is to be a Tharn Ravager unit for purposes of theme lists.

Everything else is gravy.

[PG_fildrigar]

Let's see what the other factions have for ranged medium based infantry:

Skorne Arcuarii cost 6/9 for 4/6 models
CRA, Fearless
ARM 15 ( probably the main reason you don't see them more often )
Range 8, pow 12 Harpoon with Drag
Reach/Weaponmaster on their melee weapon.

Not bad, not bad at all. As expensive as their brothers in arms are, ( for the simple addition of Shieldwall ) I'm surprised these guys aren't taken more often.

Legion Warspears cost 5/8 for 3/5
Fearless/Terror/Assault
ARM 16
Range 8, P+S 13
Reach/Set defense on their melee weapons

Not nearly as good as the Arcuarii, and I don't see them played very often at all.

Merc Ogrun Assault Corps cost 6/9 for 3/5
ARM 15
Range 12, POW 12
CRA+CMA

Not too shabby, and the only one with a longer range.

[YabaBaga]

The Arcuarii unit has 4/6 models in the unit, like Ravagers and Cetrati.

There's also the Trollkin Sluggers for 5/8 for 3/5
ARM 14
Range 10, pow 13 with conditional Rapid Fire

The chance for them to be labelled as Ravagers is somewhere between "nil" and "highly unlikely". It would open up questions as to whether you could attach the Shaman or Cheiftain to the unit, which would be cool but unlikely as something Privateer Press would do.

I imagine that they will have typical Ravager stats with the MAT/RAT to be evened out to be 6/6 at a cost of 6/9 for a unit of 4/6. Range will most likely be 10 with a POW of 12-13, maybe with some sort of damage bonus, Finisher or Crit Brutal Damage being most likely.

[PG_fildrigar]

The chance for them to be labelled as Ravagers is somewhere between "nil" and "highly unlikely". It would open up questions as to whether you could attach the Shaman or Cheiftain to the unit, which would be cool but unlikely as something Privateer Press would do.

They could be "Tharn Bow Users: Circle Tharn Ravager Unit" which would allow them to be used in tier lists and let them use the White Mane's Tactician, while disallowing the use of the UA and WA.

[stupidmonkey]

If I was going to eat something in the middle of combat, that I was shooting at, I would have a rope on the end of the arrow (lowish P+S) and have drag, with a tharn mele attack at the end. If I were a tharn that is.