How to shut down your opponent's Colossal - or, how to lose all your gaming friends

[theHman]

Played my first game with the Kraken last night vs my buddy's trolls and his Mtn King.





Now what I'm about to suggest is probably going to ruin the friendships you have with your gamer buddy's. Or at the very least, cause lots of complaints and whining. You may also have a hard time finding people to play against if you do this all the time.

It'll cost you 8 pts out of your total, but it'll be well worth it as you'll not only be able to completely remove your opponents colossal, but also his next big heavy hitter.

Simply take 2 Pistol Wraiths and Gorman.
Thanks to the PW's death chill ability and the dismal def of colossals, you can simply camp your PW 10" away from any colossal and repeatedly shoot them so they must forfeit both action and movement each turn.

[EDIT: Sorry, Death Chill doesn't stack. So 1 PW is all you need with Gorman. But a 2nd PW would make a great backup plan]

Use Gorman to blind your opponents next big heavy hitter and you should be able to walk all over everything.

Of course, you need to protect Gorman and the PW's, but that's what McThralls are for.

[Maddtrippin]

One problem with that...Pistol Wraiths cannot cause a model to forfeit both movement and action. It's one or the other.

[theHman]

One problem with that...Pistol Wraiths cannot cause a model to forfeit both movement and action. It's one or the other.

The first Pistol Wraith forces the opponent to forfeit either your move or action.
The second PW forces you to forfeit whatever you have left.
One of the most evil things in the game imo...

[Episkopos]

Blind makes them forfeit the other one. After that, all they can do is buy normal attacks at -4 Mat.
Don't know what the second Pistol Wraith is for, other than redundancy.

[ZombieWar]

if you can keep 3 inches of forest between the PW and the colossal you should be reasonably safe.

[Murkhadh]

Ayiana and holt with a long range unit = this combo broken

[SjoerdH]

And while mountain king might seriously be hampered by the death chill, Stormwall will just remain standing and shoot the **** out of everything

[Refyougee]

The first Pistol Wraith forces the opponent to forfeit either your move or action.
The second PW forces you to forfeit whatever you have left.
One of the most evil things in the game imo...

This is incorrect. A model cant suffer Death Chill twice in the same turn.

Gorman will do it, though.

[SjoerdH]

The first Pistol Wraith forces the opponent to forfeit either your move or action.
The second PW forces you to forfeit whatever you have left.

2 death chills don't stack

[Episkopos]

And while mountain king might seriously be hampered by the death chill, Stormwall will just remain standing and shoot the **** out of everything

Not while blinded it won't, unless colossals have a rule that lets them ignore that.

[ZombieWar]

yeah it doesnt seem like you can double up on special rules with the same name.

[Episkopos]

Can Stormwall still launch a stormtower to roast Gorman if it is missing its movement, action, and can not make ranged attacks?

[PG_The Captain]

Not while blinded it won't, unless colossals have a rule that lets them ignore that.

They do. It's called "Don't let Gorman get close enough".

Really. If an opponent has a wimpy solo that could potentially shut down your 19-point model, you protect your 19-point model from the wimpy solo.

Of course, Gorman can increase his potential threat range with lucky deviations. Might be hilarious to use Dougal MacNaile to deviate black oil better...

[solkan]

The "dual pistol wraiths" thing does not work because each Pistol Wraith applies Death Chill to the model. That effect sits on the model until it activates, and then the afflicted model has to forfeit, because the rules for forfeiting movement and action specify when a model can forfeit.

So Pistol Wraith A hits and applies Death Chill. Then Pistol Wraith B hits and applies Death Chill. The effects of the second Death Chill are completely ignored because it's an effect of the same name. End result: The afflicted model only ever forfeits one thing to Death Chill.

There are probably other ways to try to get the model to forfeit everything, but you're not going to do it by trying to get Death Chill to stack with itself or somehow resolve immediately.

[Rabid Bunny]

Or 4 points for an arc node, hit it with Crippling Grasp and watch it potter 2" a turn for the rest of the game.

[theHman]

2 death chills don't stack

Why did I think they do??
Oh well, still, hit them with death chill and then blind from Gorman.
Pretty much makes all colossal's useless at that point.
Plus, now you've got an extra 3 pts to play with!
Bane Thrall UA anyone? =)

[ZombieWar]

the best defense against colossals seems to be a fully incorporeal army Go go blackbanes!!

[AshenFang]

Can Stormwall still launch a stormtower to roast Gorman if it is missing its movement, action, and can not make ranged attacks?

No, the Stormwall can only launch the pods at the end of it's movement, if it Forfiets it's movement, there is no 'end' of it, so can't toss out a pod.

That said, while this....can be done, it's very unlikely. Deathchills don't stack, and even if they did, Pistol Wraiths die easy enough that it wouldn't last too long. PW + Gorman means Gorman is pretty close, and even closer to a now desperate player's force that needs to take one of them out to free up their Gargantuan/Colossal. A single PW in range to shoot them, is in range of it's return fire, the Mountain King has a 10" Spray for the above example.

if you can keep 3 inches of forest between the PW and the colossal you should be reasonably safe.

An amusing use of forests here, as Colossals and Gargantuans can't hide behind forests, but everything else can hide behind them from then.. ...except of course the Archangel no doubt.

the best defense against colossals seems to be a fully incorporeal army Go go blackbanes!!

Along this line of conversation, you are most likely better off using your PW's to carefully position in a way to block off that massive 120mm base from getting within reach of your Kraken. =p

[ResurrectioN]

Or 4 points for an arc node, hit it with Crippling Grasp and watch it potter 2" a turn for the rest of the game.

You still haven't noticed that their biggest strength is ammount of ranged attacks?

[AshenFang]

You still haven't noticed that their biggest strength is ammount of ranged attacks?

Not the case with the Mountain king, it has a single 10" Spray, a respectable one no doubt, but still, compared to what we've seen from the Colossals, pretty tame. I'm hoping this is a theme with Gargantuans, the more boxes you add to the model, the more I believe it shows how much of an advantage the spiral system has over the Warjacks systems. I believe the Mountain King had 48 boxes, you leave it at 1, next turn it'll be fully function with minimal fuss, no need for any special unit to repair or heal it, where as Colossals simply get torn down over time if you don't dedicate points to things that repair them, and then hope those models survive, heh. (Nemo being the exception, as he can make a single jack more or less like Warbeasts with his one spell.)

[theHman]

You still haven't noticed that their biggest strength is ammount of ranged attacks?

That's what Gorman is for.
Even with boosts, it's going to be hard to hit anything with a rat of 2...
And if you're death chilled and forfeit your movement, AND you're blinded by Gorman on the same turn, then you aren't doing jack squat as you have to forfeit your actions from being blind.

[GreenJello]

Now what I'm about to suggest is probably going to ruin the friendships you have with your gamer buddy's. Or at the very least, cause lots of complaints and whining. You may also have a hard time finding people to play against if you do this all the time.

As a Cryx player I already don't have any "gamer buddies", just targets. I mean really there are two types of people who play this game: people who know that Cryx is OP and play accordingly, and losers.

It'll cost you 8 pts out of your total, but it'll be well worth it as you'll not only be able to completely remove your opponents colossal, but also his next big heavy hitter.

Simply take 2 Pistol Wraiths and Gorman.
Thanks to the PW's death chill ability and the dismal def of colossals, you can simply camp your PW 10" away from any colossal and repeatedly shoot them so they must forfeit both action and movement each turn.

Yes, which is why the immunity to Disruption seems like such a poke in the eye to Cygnar. Needless to say, I've been thinking about going in with a buddy or two, and attempting to buy up ALL the Gorman's in the game, at least until PP errata's his ability against Colossals.

[Rabid Bunny]

You still haven't noticed that their biggest strength is ammount of ranged attacks?

I have done, but a Mountain King's spray isn't its big point. Also, making a Colossal sacrifice movement or action still means those big guns fire, and the Stormwall can just Pod Gorman. I don't think there is a cut and dry way to deal with Collosals.

[theHman]

I have done, but a Mountain King's spray isn't its big point. Also, making a Colossal sacrifice movement or action still means those big guns fire, and the Stormwall can just Pod Gorman. I don't think there is a cut and dry way to deal with Collosals.

Isn't Gorman immune to electricity?

[ZombieWar]

nah, fire and corrosion.

[Iixil]

with coven + x2 pistol wriaths and x2 ripjaw. both are multi use utility models and if the situation presents itself then vicelock the colosal that had 5 inches LOS last turn and then death chill since it had no movment to sac it must sac action aswell unless they can kill you arc with somthing i would suggest using the second PW or a siren to shutdown anything that that could do this. and with feat+infernal machine+occultation youl have no problem getting them and the rest of your army there unmolested. this can also work with E.skarre quite well and you could even go for the ragman/gorman or a backlash+raiders feedback kill.

[Octavius_Maximus]

Gorman is so going to eat all of my conquests guns.

Or, you know, ANYTHING else.

[solkan]

No, the Stormwall can only launch the pods at the end of it's movement, if it Forfiets it's movement, there is no 'end' of it, so can't toss out a pod.

From the rules for forfeiting movement:

When a model forfeits its movement, resolve the effect to which the movement is being forfeited, then the model ends its movement, triggering any relevant effects.

(Underlining added for emphasis).

When you forfeit movement, there's no "end of advance", but there is an "end of movement". If that pod thing says "When it ends its movement, ..." then it can forfeit movement and still throw a pod.

[deademon]

wow, ive been playing that wrong...the PWs....opps. meh, i dont think ive used it that much any ways...

[isawatsuke]

I still maintain that pistol wraiths are the best shooty solo in the game They just get better with colossals on the board.

The most common complaint I hear is "stormwall will just shoot". The answer is yes. But so what? All cygnar armies will use collosals from now on and for certain scenarios their strategy will be to put the colossal on the control point and just facetank with it. Giving up movement means they wont get there. Sure you will lose your pistol wraith next turn. But a game lasts 3-4 rounds. If I can sac my 3 point model to remove your 20 point one for one turn im good.

The gorman thing... i dont think will work. Too many things get arond stealth and he has too short range.

[AshenFang]

From the rules for forfeiting movement:

(Underlining added for emphasis).

When you forfeit movement, there's no "end of advance", but there is an "end of movement". If that pod thing says "When it ends its movement, ..." then it can forfeit movement and still throw a pod.

Hmm, interesting, will check on the wording of the pods now.. seems we've been playing it wrong. (Possibly.)
ALP states: "Once per activation, after it's normal movement, ..."

As for Gorman, he's out ranged by the Stormwall and his stealth doesn't help him at all. Unless you are going to rely on a lucky scatter on the lob, Gorman has a threat range of 12", a bit more if there is a model directly in front of the thing you really want to hit. Stormwall has a threat range of 15" on his Lightning pods which stealth doesn't help, and 13.5" range on two handed throws, which again, stealth does not help against.

On top of all of that, if you do get the blind off, the Stormwall can just give up it's action, continue still forward towards your forces/objectives, and then just place a pod behind Gorman, frying him. on a boostable roll needing 7 to kill.

[ChaosPhantom104]

A BLINDED MODEL CAN'T EVEN MAKE RANGED ATTACKS. that is all.

[MollyHatchet]

I think that pretty much Gorman is going to be a pretty big NON issue alot of times. Seriously, almost all factions have a way of dealing with him if you build right (And if your going to take a big guy, your going to have some protection.)

ATGM + UA
Stormcallers
Eliminators
Banes
Fairly sure SOMETHING in Ret...
Dont know enough about Hordes Armies...

Its all about target priority. Yes he is two points, but he is two points of annoying that when dead, I dont have to deal with and whatever it was that squashed him is still around (Which most of the list I would suppose would be) They can go after the next top. If its not on the other side of the board.

[Azuresun]

A BLINDED MODEL CAN'T EVEN MAKE RANGED ATTACKS. that is all.

Activate Lightning Pod isn't classed as an attack, you just place the pod and fzorch. Interestingly, I think it can also use covering fire while blinded.

[Happy Scrappy Hero Pup]

I don't think Gorman is EVER a non-factor. That guy is a jerk.

Personally, I'm thinking more and more that I need to get Blackbane and his boys painted. They don't seem to care about anything collosals bring to the table.

[PG_The Captain]

Activate Lightning Pod isn't classed as an attack, you just place the pod and fzorch. Interestingly, I think it can also use covering fire while blinded.

Covering fire is "instead of making attacks with this weapon", so it needs to be able to make attacks with the weapon.

[sleet01]

Or 4 points for an arc node, hit it with Crippling Grasp and watch it potter 2" a turn for the rest of the game.

Let me tell you, this sucks balls. -2 STR and ARM, plus no power attacks, hurts the worst.

[SjoerdH]

Fairly sure SOMETHING in Ret...
.

Kaelyssa is the only ret model that can reliably shoot stealt modelsl. Otherwise you have to scatter lucky

[MollyHatchet]

Kaelyssa is the only ret model that can reliably shoot stealt modelsl. Otherwise you have to scatter lucky

As often as I have played/seen Ret I really dont have a clue. Interesting to know at least... Need to get that Kayazy to use against them.

[Deo85]

nice trick the only problem is when you pull it off you better hope your PW and Gorman are in safe places because they will get fried the next turn. If I see a 2pnt solo that can make my 20pnt model useless you are damn sure I will fry that model asap. Granted if you go agents a player that does not know any better then cool your set and ok to launch.