Kraken + Blackspot

[Snarkie]

I'm having a bit of trouble understanding how the Kraken interacts with Black Spot after reading three different variations on it. Please confirm whether or not my understanding is correct.

Assuming that the Kraken is full up on corpses, every time it kills a model with black spot on it, it can also take a shot with it's Hellblaster. So potentially, if you give the Kraken 3 focus while it's full on corpses, it can make 5 melee attacks (2 initials plus 5 bought) that are each followed up with 5 ranged attacks from the Hellblaster (the big gun)? In addition, you would activate the kill shot which if used on a black spot target would generate another black spot attack? So therefore, a total of 12 attacks?

Moving on to using the flayer...

If you shoot a unit with black spot on it with your Flayer, you can potentially make up to 4 attacks (D3 + 1) plus another 4 melee and/or ranged attacks as long as you destroy a black spotted unit with each Flayer attack (the rules of black spot say that you can make one additional ranged OR melee attack so I'm assuming that you can pick any combination of them). Is this correct? Additionally, if you do choose to use one of your black spot generated attacks as a melee attack and kill the model would that generate a kill shot from the Hellblaster that in turn could possibly generate another black spot attack? So potentially 10 attacks?

Thanks everyone!

[Saraminss]

No sure... Without the virtuoso rule they still should have to choose to make melee or ranged attacks not both (kill shot being the exception).

[drachenfels]

I'm having a bit of trouble understanding how the Kraken interacts with Black Spot after reading three different variations on it. Please confirm whether or not my understanding is correct.

we'll be able to confirm when the book and the models rules are available to the general public.

until then it would be all speculation

[tuttleboy]

Just a heads up that any attack that generates a black spot attack must be of the same type. INFERNAL RULING Attack generating abilities only give one attack no matter how many abilities are triggered per attack. Much like Gerlack with black spot on him only gets one attack when he makes a kill, not two. Black spot does not stack with Gerlak Slaughterborn's Killing Spree ability. He will only gain one additional attack after killing a model under black spot, not two. This is because they are resolved separately and as soon as one is resolved it negates the conditions on the other. See appendix A of Prime.

[Snarkie]

Just a heads up that any attack that generates a black spot attack must be of the same type. INFERNAL RULING Attack generating abilities only give one attack no matter how many abilities are triggered per attack. Much like Gerlack with black spot on him only gets one attack when he makes a kill, not two. Black spot does not stack with Gerlak Slaughterborn's Killing Spree ability. He will only gain one additional attack after killing a model under black spot, not two. This is because they are resolved separately and as soon as one is resolved it negates the conditions on the other. See appendix A of Prime.

Thanks! That's helpful. So all black spot generated attacks must be of the same type.

The follow-up question I have would be whether or not Kill Shot can activate along with Black Spot. Black Spot states that Black Spot attacks cannot generate additional Black Spot attacks. Kill Shot states that once per activation when a model is killed via a melee attack from this model during its activation, immediatly after it's resolved you can make a normal ranged attack (keeping the wording non-exact so the post doesn't get deleted. If you want the exact wording of Kill Shot, you can find it on the Mountain King card at Breaking The Format). To me, this would mean that if kill an enemy with a black spot attack, you are eligible for the kill shot since Black Spot only states that "attacks gained black spot can't generate additional attacks from black spot" and the Kill Shot only has to be a melee attack that occurred within this models activation. So here's what I see potentially happening.

Initial Melee 1: Black spot 1
Initial Melee 2: Black Spot 2
Bought Melee 1: Black Spot 3
Bought Melee 2: Black Spot 4
Bought Melee 3: Black Spot 5
Kill Shot (this can occur any time after a black spot attack kills an enemy unit).

So 11 attacks total.

[drachenfels]

Just a heads up that any attack that generates a black spot attack must be of the same type.

actually the blackspot attack must be the same type of attack as the initial attack type chosen for that activation (which is why the harpoon->drag->free attack kills->harpoon from blackspot->loop works)
so if the kraken chooses to make initial melee attacks for that activation then black spot will only generate additional melee attacks.

[IAvian]

Here's how I read it:

Scenario #1: Kraken makes melee attacks against a Black Spotted unit. Assuming a hit and a kill for each swing.

1. Makes initial melee attack.
1a. Black Spot generates an additional melee attack (which need not be in the same arc)
2. Makes second melee attack
2a. Black Spot generates an additional melee attack (which need not be in the same arc)
and so on for up to 3 focus worth of additional attacks.

This generates 10 attacks in total with 3 focus. On the last attack (generated by Black Spot) you may then trigger Kill Shot for a Unicorn Gun Attack, for a total of 10 melee attacks and a shot.

(After each of those attacks, Kill Shot may trigger. However, if you trigger Kill Shot off a non Black Spot generated attack, it would replace the Black Spot attack as only one effect may grant an additional attack from any given attack.)

Scenario #2: Kraken Shoots at a Black Spotted unit (also assuming best dice ever)

1. Rolls 3 on the D3 for Flayer Shots.
2. Flayer Shot 1
2a. Black Spot generates another Ranged Attack (Which can be Unicorn Gun)
3. Flayer Shot 2
3a. Black Spot generates another Ranged Attack (Which can be Unicorn Gun)
4. Flayer Shot 3
4a. Black Spot generates another Ranged Attack (Which can be Unicorn Gun)
5. Flayer Shot 4
5a. Black Spot generates another Ranged Attack (Which can be Unicorn Gun)
6. Fire Unicorn Gun
6a. Black Spot generates another Ranged Attack (Which can be Unicorn Gun)

For 4 Flayer Shots and 6 Unicorn Gun Shots. Proceed to Watch opponents cry.

Also worth noting is that the Black Spot attacks don't have to target the Black Spot affected unit.

(Aside - I don't think you'll ever be Not Shooting with the Kraken except for when you need to load up on meat.)

[Rynth]

Here's how I read it:

Scenario #1: Kraken makes melee attacks against a Black Spotted unit. Assuming a hit and a kill for each swing.

1. Makes initial melee attack.
1a. Black Spot generates an additional melee attack (which need not be in the same arc)
2. Makes second melee attack
2a. Black Spot generates an additional melee attack (which need not be in the same arc)
and so on for up to 3 focus worth of additional attacks.

This generates 10 attacks in total with 3 focus. On the last attack (generated by Black Spot) you may then trigger Kill Shot for a Unicorn Gun Attack, for a total of 10 melee attacks and a shot.

Keep in mind the Kraken RFPs instead of destroys if it has fewer than 3 corpse tokens and RFP-ing doesn't trigger Black Spot.
Also, if the Kill Shot is against a Black Spotted target and kills it then that would trigger another Black Spot attack. This would still have to be a melee attack.