Kraken + Ragman = Power 23 attacks

[chris_cryx]

Been looking at a fellow gamers copy of Colossals and I think we will be seeing a lot more of Ragman with the Kraken - Dark shrould over a huge area because of the Death Field on the large Kraken base and 4" melee range. Certainly gonna give this a go.

Thoughts?

[2LiveIs2Die]

It has been mentioned many times. It's not bad but that's 21 points for the kraken so you need to weigh the pros and cons of doing so.

[Lamoron]

Also the 4" Reach is during it's activation so it won't debuff within 4".

[PG_Dmark]

I'd rather take pSkarre. Pow 23 attacks, if I've understood the Kraken spoilers correctly and it is P+S 18.

[Gamingdevil]

I'd rather take pSkarre. Pow 23 attacks, if I've understood the Kraken spoilers correctly and it is P+S 18.

26 on full corpse tokens

[PG_Dmark]

26 on full corpse tokens

Now that just makes me a happy kitty.

[Canuberon]

Now that just makes me a happy kitty.

Welcome to Cryx happy kitty.

[Drakor]

Full Corpse Tokens + Ragman + Gorman + pGaspy/pSkarre/pDenny = Pow 30?

[Lamoron]

Full Corpse Tokens + Ragman + Gorman + pGaspy/pSkarre/pDenny = Pow 30?

Ha, that's funny stuff.

[Gamingdevil]

Full Corpse Tokens + Ragman + Gorman + pGaspy/pSkarre/pDenny = Pow 30?

I'm not sure if this would be allowed against another Colossal. Wouldn't owning him count as taking control?

[PG_Asa]

i'm not sure if this would be allowed against another colossal. Wouldn't owning him count as taking control?

yesss!!!!!

[PG_Tionas]

or you could replace Rag man with a single bane, and that might work. BUT! you also have Moar Banez, which I've heard is a trending topic here on the cryx boards

[theHman]

How about:

Ragman
Full corpse tokens
pDenny with parasite and feat up on target colossal

Kraken will effectively hit at PS 28!

Mmmmmm delicious!
I think I'll give this a try tonight.
*Cue evil lich lord laugh*

[Skell]

Its still amazing if you just include the easy to trigger buffs, like parasite/ragman ....

[Sanctjud]

Its still amazing if you just include the easy to trigger buffs, like parasite/ragman ....

That was a necro.
Anyway...anything is amazing with buffs and debuffs (which Parasite is technically a debuff).
The issue with Kraken one should worry about more is durability/delivery, Accuracy, and possibly attack generation.

[Sheer_Falacy]

That was a necro.
Anyway...anything is amazing with buffs and debuffs (which Parasite is technically a debuff).
The issue with Kraken one should worry about more is durability/delivery, Accuracy, and possibly attack generation.

And the full turn it probably takes to get it up to the same PS as every other colossal gets baseline.

[rocksalt]

And the full turn it probably takes to get it up to the same PS as every other colossal gets baseline.

I'm so tired of tokens in Cryx as a balancing mechanic.

I'm just glad we are getting the Kraken soon. With all the anti-infantry the other factions are getting we need a durable heavy hitter.

[Deo85]

Eh its a infantry clear model which does not impress me in the least. Any of our tools become amazing with so much debuff used the problem is getting them all in the right position with out having to clear out the models in front of your intended target. In the end its going to take time to get this to all work out and that time is going to cost us resources.

We got yet another model that is a melee monster at least this one has some guns to make up for the meh melee mechanics it spouts.

[Kallas]

I'm so tired of tokens in Cryx as a balancing mechanic.

I'm just glad we are getting the Kraken soon. With all the anti-infantry the other factions are getting we need a durable heavy hitter.

All but three of your Warcasters have damage buffs (either buffs or debuffs) and you have access to Ragman and Banes. The reason you have 'mediocre' base damage is because the majority of your lists (ie, the 10/13 warcasters) have damage buffs, plus the caster agnostic ones.

If you want, I'll trade you all of your damage buffs for my faction's (Ret) mighty two: the Arcanist (Jack melee only) and Ossyan's feat (ranged only)

Your token mechanic is fine.

[Sheer_Falacy]

All but three of your Warcasters have damage buffs (either buffs or debuffs) and you have access to Ragman and Banes. The reason you have 'mediocre' base damage is because the majority of your lists (ie, the 10/13 warcasters) have damage buffs, plus the caster agnostic ones.

If you want, I'll trade you all of your damage buffs for my faction's (Ret) mighty two: the Arcanist (Jack melee only) and Ossyan's feat (ranged only)

Your token mechanic is fine.

Sadly, our two biggest jack casters have no damage buffs (eSkarre and Mortenebra). And in general, damage buffs encourage units over jacks because they get so many more attacks.

Our token mechanic is mostly irrelevant - the turn you need to hit hardest is the first strike, and unless you're going after shock troopers or skinwalkers or something, mat 6 PS 18 isn't best applied against infantry.

On the bright side, we will get the first strike, what with our enormous charge range.

[Kallas]

Sadly, our two biggest jack casters have no damage buffs (eSkarre and Mortenebra). And in general, damage buffs encourage units over jacks because they get so many more attacks.

You're lamenting the lack of damage buffs on your jack casters to the guy who plays a faction with no jack casters and very limited jack support full stop

But your point about buffs is fair: units do benefit much more, which is the problem with infantrymachine - volume is almost always better.

[Drzombieface]

Against another Colossal/Warjack:


pGaspy, Kraken, Gorman, Stray Bane Thrall.

p+s 18 to start, but let's factor in 3 corpse tokens, bringing the P+S up to 21.

Gaspy provides Scything Touch and Parasite for an effective net +5, --> P+S 26

Gorman tosses a Rust bomb, for another effective net +2, --> P+S 28

the stray bane thrall runs into position, providing another effective +2,


Total: Kraken waddles up with P+S 30 Claws, with a potential 5 attacks. If Gaspy upkeeps Scything Touch he can still allocate 3 focus to the Kraken and cast Parasite. You could pop his feat to be able to boost the hit...but come on, it's against a jack. Dice + 9 against the Behemoth, even rolling 1, 1 every time it's still dead. Dice + 10 against the Conquest (using as example because it has most HP with 62), with 5 attacks you only have to roll 12 additional damage with the dice, the Dice +10 is doing base 50 damage with 5 attacks anyway. Assuming average, even slightly below average rolls, the Conquest just went splat.

combo only goes up to effective P+S 28 against Hordes, because Gorman can't rust a beast. Would be funny though.


Nightmare can get an even higher P+S than this if you dump debuffs on one model until you can't even see its stats anymore.

[Mathai]

SO does everyone who keeps saying the base pow 18 on Kraken's 4 inch reach is under powered, also feel the same power issues for Deathjack? Does Nightmare vs. its prey now represent an underpowered killer as well?

[Drzombieface]

SO does everyone who keeps saying the base pow 18 on Kraken's 4 inch reach is under powered, also feel the same power issues for Deathjack? Does Nightmare vs. its prey now represent an underpowered killer as well?

If someone thinks a model in Cryx doesn't hit hard, they aren't debuffing enough.

[Sanctjud]

In the new world of Arcane Shielded Stormwall, ps 18 is pretty low, trololol

[Drzombieface]

In the new world of Arcane Shielded Stormwall, ps 18 is pretty low, trololol

Well, Gaspy 3 does have a way to get rid of AcS, and his tier list can start a Kraken off at P+S 19, with Scything Touch it's P+S 21 turn 1. With Gorman and a Bane Thrall, it's up to P+S 25. with 2 more corpse tokens, it's up to P+S 27. I'd say that's a fair trade for an AcS'ed Stormwall.

[rocksalt]

I wouldn't count corpse tokens in any calculations of the Kraken's hitting power. If it happens, great, but more than likely the turn after you get your corpse tokens you are going to lose your Kraken against a smart player. The Kraken needs to target something big when it is committed.

That being said, I think it is a great addition to Cryx. It isn't as easy to use as some of the other colossals but I think it fits nicely into the Cryx playing style of screening our heavy hitter, layering debuffs and then applying force at the right time.

I plan on getting at least one and playing the heck out of it.

[Drzombieface]

I wouldn't count corpse tokens in any calculations of the Kraken's hitting power. If it happens, great, but more than likely the turn after you get your corpse tokens you are going to lose your Kraken against a smart player. The Kraken needs to target something big when it is committed.

Or, now bear with me on this...


You could not leave it out in the open... With a 4" Reach during its activation, it could easily sit behind your main line and pick away at stray flesh bags for easy Corpse Tokens.

[Sanctjud]

Well, Gaspy 3 does have a way to get rid of AcS, and his tier list can start a Kraken off at P+S 19, with Scything Touch it's P+S 21 turn 1. With Gorman and a Bane Thrall, it's up to P+S 25. with 2 more corpse tokens, it's up to P+S 27. I'd say that's a fair trade for an AcS'ed Stormwall.

I did "trololol ".
Also, PP has stated we won't need to do Colossals vs. Colossals, so your example of seriousness would replace Kraken with Deathjack or Nightmare for best results

[rocksalt]

Or, now bear with me on this...


You could not leave it out in the open... With a 4" Reach during its activation, it could easily sit behind your main line and pick away at stray flesh bags for easy Corpse Tokens.

True and that is going to be fun times but I've found with tokens, best not to count on them and just treat them as a bonus (in this case a very nice bonus). In my meta, the non-Cryx infantry played have such high defense that the Kraken is not going to be collecting very many unless I'm playing Skarre or Gaspy3. That being said, it really only needs 3 to get to max and then hang on to them so that is very nice.

[ColdYinTiger]

It has been mentioned many times. It's not bad but that's 21 points for the kraken so you need to weigh the pros and cons of doing so.

Considering the Mountain King is 20 points without any support that it normally requires, 21 is pretty nice.

[Drzombieface]

True and that is going to be fun times but I've found with tokens, best not to count on them and just treat them as a bonus (in this case a very nice bonus). In my meta, the non-Cryx infantry played have such high defense that the Kraken is not going to be collecting very many unless I'm playing Skarre or Gaspy3. That being said, it really only needs 3 to get to max and then hang on to them so that is very nice.

Dark Guidance, 3 dice to hit on meaty flesh bags and everything else.

Terminal Velocity, 3 dice to hit on meaty flesh bags.

Carnage, MAT 8 on everything.

Crippling Grasp + The Withering, effective MAT 10 against affected models.

Infernal Machine, MAT 8, SPD 7.

Icy Grip + Feast of Worms, effective MAT 8/ base P+S 20.


The only casters we have that don't have a way to buff the MAT and/or effective P+S of the Kraken are eSkarre, Terminus, and Venethrax.

Considering the Mountain King is 20 points without any support that it normally requires, 21 is pretty nice.

The upside to this is that the support the MK would be receiving would be models you would already be taking anyway, e.g., The KSB, your warlock, extra whelps, animi of other beasts, etc.

[Ulli]

Terminus could use his Malediction-spell to help the Kraken, but that's a tricky one.

[Gamingdevil]

The only casters we have that don't have a way to buff the MAT and/or effective P+S of the Kraken are eSkarre

Black Spot doesn't count?

[PG_Vezinas Ghost]

Yes, clearly the Kraken can be a very effective Troop eating machine, but who is going to send their Troops up the field after it? Any decent player is going to launch Warjacks (hello Hunter) after it to smash the hell out of it. Kraken does not have a Speed, Defense, or Armor respectable enough to survive a smart Warmachine player's army.

[Drzombieface]

Black Spot doesn't count?

Black Spot is used more often as a supplement to RAT than MAT. Shoot it in the face, kill something, shoot something else in the face, kill more stuff. With a high POW gun and 4" AoE, it could take out half or more of a light/med infantry unit in one activation.

[Gamingdevil]

Black Spot is used more often as a supplement to RAT than MAT. Shoot it in the face, kill something, shoot something else in the face, kill more stuff. With a high POW gun and 4" AoE, it could take out half or more of a light/med infantry unit in one activation.

Yes of course, I agree using it for ranged attacks is more efficient in this case. But it is a way to boost MAT and 4" Reach measured from a huge base and Kill Shot can kill quite a lot as well, when benefiting from BS.

[Drzombieface]

Yes of course, I agree using it for ranged attacks is more efficient in this case. But it is a way to boost MAT and 4" Reach measured from a huge base and Kill Shot can kill quite a lot as well, when benefiting from BS.

Since eSkarre only has one solid way to defend the Kraken (Death Ward), throwing it up that far just to melee some infantry when it could sit safely 16" away is kind of dumb.

Yes, she can use her feat to shut down enemy models near it, but that's kind of a waste that early.

[Sanctjud]

Yes, she can use her feat to shut down enemy models near it, but that's kind of a waste that early.

Technically it's not a waste if it's shutting down enemy models from killing your Kraken
But, I get what you are saying, though that kind of mentality really depends on who your opponent it and what scenario you are playing. Sometimes, you really need to force your way forward against like eKrugger/Harbie/Old Witch so you have ground to give up instead of giving ground you don't have.