This is a pretty great community...

[Seventhprophet]

I was talking to a friend The other day (who doesn't play warmachine) about a unit I finished painting up. I pulled up the forums to show him my work and he was more awestruck by the forums themselves than the painting.

He said "wait, you posted up your work... For The Internet to judge. You have balls.".

I never really thought about this until just then. But he's right. Any other site or forum would be rife with people gleefully tearing down others with annonamous glee, but this is a place where people get good feedback and helpfull advice without fear of that. I've never once seen any one go haywire and troll other posters. I've never felt apprehension about showing my progress. It's a pretty nice feeling.

Just thought I would share. Carry on

[anthonicus]

Yea I find that in general the WM/H community is very positive and encouraging from the painting/modeling to the gaming side!

[HeadHunter]

I never worry about people critiquing my paint work - I'm not the best, but the naysayers usually can't walk the walk.

[ForestZ]

Personally, I think the forum offers a little too many butt pats and not enough honest criticism to help people improve, but I suppose this is more of a "show what you did" type of community than a "people striving to be the best painters they can be" type. There's a place for all types of communities though, so I don't mind.

[anthonicus]

haha...forestZ, if you have honest criticism for me please do lay it on (: I do agree with your sentiments though.

I find that most painters are looking for someone to validate their work rather than seek constructive criticism though...so its difficult to offer that up without seeming like a troll sometimes.

[MidnightFox0083]

I find that most painters are looking for someone to validate their work rather than seek constructive criticism though...

I have a wife to validate my work, I need honest criticism online.

[Kegtapper]

Plenty of people ask for comments to improve. Those of use that have put the best we can do on the forums and its table top quality at best,
are just glad to have place to show what we have done and not get flamed.

[Crate123]

Personally, I think the forum offers a little too many butt pats and not enough honest criticism to help people improve, but I suppose this is more of a "show what you did" type of community than a "people striving to be the best painters they can be" type. There's a place for all types of communities though, so I don't mind.

It depends what type of people it is.
If its a new guy or someone who isnt striving to be the best yeah then the community is really friendly and dont offer too much criticism.
But if its one of the good ones such as Ghool or Snauzerface then they will get criticism (if there is actually any to be had, which is rare) or if its someone who clearly wants to be good and he honestly asks for criticism then he will get it.

[Seventhprophet]

This is what I mean. I've seen post from very new painters and probably some very young painters that get needed encouragement to continue. I've also seen amazing artist have their art tore down on request because that's what was needed at their level. But I've never seen malice. It's all been very positive.

[stonet13]

I have a wife to validate my work, I need honest criticism online.

Actually I'm in the exact opposite boat. My with gives me the honest criticism, I NEED the internet to validate my work and my ego!!!

Honestly, though, my wife looks as my work (especially color selection), then looks at my friends armies, and states "why are all of yours so dark and his are colorful". This is why we don't host games at my house anymore.

[MOZZ]

This forum has been great to me so I'm deliberate about how I contribute. The best advice I ever heard about talking/posting/life-in-general is this:

If you can shut up, shut up.

With that in mind, two things make me comment: a post with good execution (like this), good concept (like this), or excellent effort or improvement (like this); or a question or request for critique.

I don't reply unless a post impresses me in the first category or asks me a good question I feel I can usefully answer in the second category. This prevents the "butt-pats" as ForetZ so elegantly put it and means I am usually careful to make sure I have something to add to the thread before I reply.

I hate to admit it but I've typed many paragraphs long and emphatic replies that I ultimately deleted because I was just talking to hear myself speak or to get things off my chest. Overall, I'd say that the majority of posters on the painting forum seem to share this mindset.

[anthonicus]

alright...HeadHunter, ForestZ, Midnightfox, MOZZ...if I see some threads of your work I'll do my best to give good constructive critiques. :P I would appreciate the same...honestly I feel like good critiques are hard to come by and I usually have to solicit them personally from other artists.

[MOZZ]

Hey, I thought I recognized your name so I clicked through to your WIP thread. You did the Turquoise haired tharn and the Circle beast reposes! Man, you're one of the primary guys that inspired me to purchase into Circle! I'm currently stealing the vines idea for my Megalith repose. If I was half as good at painting hair and flesh I would attempt some Tharn. Major props on the reposes.

And, since you've asked for critique so nicely, I'd go purchase a basic anatomy book if you intend to keep resculpting. You're lightyears ahead of me but something's not quite right about the stalker's shoulders.

[anthonicus]

Haha Thanks MOZZ...I'm gonna PM you so this thread doesnt get hijacked :P

[ForestZ]

By all means, crit away! And I will happily do the same when and where I feel confident in the advice I'm giving.

I firmly believe that a) you don't need to be a master to critique one and b) critiquing others work forces you to think critically about what it is you feel could use improvement and thus also improves your own work. When I used to be working towards fantasy illustration I was never afraid to voice my opinion on professionals works, and most of them respected me for it. True masters are always striving to learn and won't care who provides the advice if it's sound.

But now I think I've gone off on a tangent myself.

[anthonicus]

I think your response is pretty right on! Looks like this thread is morphing into one on how and why one should offer/take constructive criticism.

My thoughts are that it is super important to take in constructive criticism. I think its very natural for people to want their work validated. The issue comes in when being praised is their main desire. By focusing on receiving praise for what has been accomplished the mind is less receptive to what can be accomplished. Thats how I think about it anyways...

Ok ForestZ, I'm off to critique your icy khador!

[The Antipope]

I think this is a nice, friendly and vocal community that is surprisingly weak when giving out painting criticism. There's some stunning stuff on the boards and people rightfully give out the GRATZ, but then when... less than stunning work is put out people still give the GRATZ.

I also notice a fear of criticising an established name here, or maybe even better to say a taboo. For example, the recent Masters winner by Ghool. Lovely Eiryss, great work really, but it could stand to improve. So amid all the WOWZ just one person said 'I think it could be better' and it caused a brief ripple in the thread like he'd done or said something wrong.

Of course, what I'm talking about is constructive criticism. To just be rude or blindly say 'I don't like it' is useless. But then I believe in a P&M forum something like 'WOWZ GR8 WRK M8!!!' is equally as useless.

Like I said, great community, but in terms of M&P I prefer the communities which pick apart peoples work, because that's how people improve. That's how people improve at anything in fact.

[Ogrob]

I disagree (with Antipope), I think positive response can be extremely important for newer painters, for those insecure in their ability to paint. I percieve a rather large portion of players in this game to not be painters at all, and for those who take this first step, there should be encouragement, and some helpful advice, not picking apart work.

There's a time for harsh criticism, but it should probably only be offered when asked for.

[Wishing]

Personally, I don't post pictures here to get suggestions or tips on how to improve. This probably sounds amazingly arrogant, but I'm quite happy with my painting style and quality and I don't strive to win painting contests, I strive to make models that appeal to my own personal aesthetic sensibilities, which aren't always in line with most others. I have actually gotten a really great piece of advice once, about how to change the custom base on my Makeda to make the composition look dramatic. When it happens it is wonderful, but I don't expect it when I post.

The reason I post is, I guess, to get that ego boost that you get when people say they like your work. But it's not really just that in itself that I think is the reason I like painting forums. To me, the point of painting forums is mutual inspiration. So many times, I click on a thread and see something that makes me go "wow, I totally want to try and do that too". An example is a recent thread by a poster who turned an extreme warpwolf into Ghetorix. I thought it looked utterly amazing and posted to that effect, and even though I will never make one myself, I *wanted* to make one, and it inspired me to want to work on my current Circle projects. The poster then explained that he himself had been inspired by other similar projects posted in this forum. So really, I post in order to try and inspire people, because I myself get inspired by others on here.

When I comment on people's posts, usually it is just to say that I really like it, because I know that I like it when others say that to me. When someone asks for suggestions, I will try and provide them as best I can, but my priority is usually to compliment first and criticize later.

[Adurot]

Not just this forum really though. Never had a problem anywhere I've posted my stuff. Here. Dakka. Even the F&F forums that tend to show pride in their D Baggery sometimes has always been good to people posting models that I've seen.

[The Antipope]

I disagree (with Antipope), I think positive response can be extremely important for newer painters, for those insecure in their ability to paint. I percieve a rather large portion of players in this game to not be painters at all, and for those who take this first step, there should be encouragement, and some helpful advice, not picking apart work.

There's a time for harsh criticism, but it should probably only be offered when asked for.

You misunderstand me. Of course we are a broad bunch. Some paint to play and don't aim for any higher level and that's fine. Some are new and maybe need a more gentle hand. I support and agree with that. I was talking about those that ask for it. Then again, some of them ask and don't want it. If you delve enough into the P&M section you can find a few dummies being thrown out of prams.

[anthonicus]

Ogrob, Wishing, Antipope, your points are all very well taken. I think that this post has been extremely encouraging for me since I find it difficult to get good constructive critiques on my work in general and you all seem to be up for offering it.

Encouraging remarks can definitely be as helpful as critiques if the poster expands more on why he/she likes the mini. That way the painter/sculptor knows what is working well and to keep doing it.

[The Antipope]

Just speaking from a personal point of view, on the rare occasion I paint something I love it to get ripped. I don't need an ego boost. My ego is already over inflated, I don't want it to pop. Everything I have learned about painting has been from the internet. Things like 'How to paint Citadel Miniatures' never taught me a thing.

Ah, not just the internet, also the Miniature Mentor videos. But I got those from the Internet, so yeh, still the Internet.

[HeadHunter]

alright...HeadHunter,if I see some threads of your work I'll do my best to give good constructive critiques.

I always welcome constructive feedback. Currently, I don't have any pics of the few PP models I've painted. Just did the Khador battlebox and a War Dog so far. They're not quite up to the caliber of my Space Wolves - but then again, I've been doing that faction for years and the schemes are so different.

I think I'm capable of painting my Warmachine army to a decent tabletop quality - so at least I'm not embarrassed to play with them - but they're nothing I'm ready to show off just yet.

[PG_Ghool]

I have a wife to validate my work, I need honest criticism online.

I have a wife to offer honest criticism. I need validation online.
The amount of people telling me I suck makes me want to cry.

Seriously, if some one asks for honest critique, I'll certainly give them some.
I wouldn't post in my threads that comments and critique are welcome if my ego would get bruised. I can take it, and it's the only way you can improve your painting....if you want to win competitions, that is.

[The Antipope]

Mr Ghool, you accept your critique like a true gentleman. I admire you.

However, your devotees are like direwolves in their desire to protect you from teh bad menz of teh webz.