Collosals and Meta

[Nefarious60]

So, a friend and I were debating on whether collosals will get rid of all infantry spam. His opinion was people will run a small unit of infantry and that is it. I disagreed, I said that I will still run what I run now, just run them more carefully. What about you guys? Will you stop bringing Menite infantry, bring more, or will your list building change much because of Collosals?

[chrisBatson]

They won't change a thing in my area. Everyone is so put off by them that most people (except mercs for some reason) aren't all that interested.

[Fenryx]

I think infantry will be remain extremely effective, as the ones that are good at taking down jacks will be good at taking down Colossals.

The only exception to this is the Stormwall. Those covering fire templates make it rather disgusting to deal with. You basically need to have heavy multiwound infantry (Trollkin Champs, Cavalry, Bastions, Man'O'Wars) to get through it's shield of Covering Fire.

[darisus]

I think infantry will be remain extremely effective, as the ones that are good at taking down jacks will be good at taking down Colossals.

The only exception to this is the Stormwall. Those covering fire templates make it rather disgusting to deal with. You basically need to have heavy multiwound infantry (Trollkin Champs, Cavalry, Bastions, Man'O'Wars) to get through it's shield of Covering Fire.

Pretty much right there is why i have Cinerators in alot of lists.... I like them anyways, but they do decent jobs on colassals, get a few buffs on them and they have no problem really hurting them.

[Gavriel]

They will definitely change the lists you see at high level events. The current conventional combos just don't work on them. My experience suggests that one of the main challenges of dealing with them is you have to assume you will lose the first set of models that charges one without crippling it. Whole units or heavy warjacks may need to be sacrificed just to reduce it to the point where it can be killed. Definitely a game changer.

[ArneB]

I think they will make upkeep removal even more important because dealing with stormwall with arcane shield just seems too tough. Can't for my life understand why they seem to have balanced the Judicator for Defenders ward but did'nt balance Stormwall with an arcane shield included. Still, this is pretty easy for Menoth. I play legion as well and now I guess I have to have eVayl as one of my warlocks in all lists.

[tzeentchling]

Honestly, our Colossal has the potential to be nastier than the others, specifically because of the choir. There are very few things that can stop a colossal outright, but spells like Crippling Grasp or Stranglehold are ways in which certain factions are thinking of. We can make ours immune to those. That leaves blind, which is limited to Gorman and eMorghoul, and Judi's rockets are likely not fire-based so we can carpet bomb the heck out of Gorman before he gets too close. Also things like Death Chill from Pistol Wraiths, but we have enough magic weapons in our arsenal that they can be dealt with.

[Jugrnot]

I agree, I've begun to field Cinnies more with amazing results. So I do not think it will affect what I take. But it may change how I play (hopefully��). There will be a definite increase in support for my armies for a little while just so I can see what the Judy's full potential can be. But it will mostly be for finding out what works and doesn't for my play style.

[jandrese]

Honestly, our Colossal has the potential to be nastier than the others, specifically because of the choir. There are very few things that can stop a colossal outright, but spells like Crippling Grasp or Stranglehold are ways in which certain factions are thinking of. We can make ours immune to those. That leaves blind, which is limited to Gorman and eMorghoul, and Judi's rockets are likely not fire-based so we can carpet bomb the heck out of Gorman before he gets too close. Also things like Death Chill from Pistol Wraiths, but we have enough magic weapons in our arsenal that they can be dealt with.

Death Chill isn't a huge concern for me, it's usually a bigger problem for melee only models. If you can park and fire your guns anyway, then the Pistol Wraith just wasted its activation. Blind is a concern, but Gorman has to get up to knife fighting range to use it, and honestly I just don't see that happening very often unless you have a lot of terrain on the board. Even if he does, it's a one turn deal, he's not going to live to do it again.

[tzeentchling]

Death Chill isn't a huge concern for me, it's usually a bigger problem for melee only models. If you can park and fire your guns anyway, then the Pistol Wraith just wasted its activation. Blind is a concern, but Gorman has to get up to knife fighting range to use it, and honestly I just don't see that happening very often unless you have a lot of terrain on the board. Even if he does, it's a one turn deal, he's not going to live to do it again.

Right. My point is, those spells and such can shut down other Colossals, or at least make them less useful. Ours is going to have advantages in that respect, forcing the opponent to engage it and try to destroy it. DefWard/Inviolable Resolve and no-spells on Judi is going to be pretty nasty and give them less ways to deal with it.

[Zhil]

One of the biggest combo's right now seems to be coming from PHaley + Stormwall + Stormstrider. PHaley to stop spells and put up Temporal barrier so no charges. Stormstrider to fire on the lightning pod (amogst other little tricks) to help devastate infantry.

With the anti charge, anti infantry and disruption effects (and we lack Power Booster), what are our viable options to dealing with this list?

[Spyde]

One of the biggest combo's right now seems to be coming from PHaley + Stormwall + Stormstrider. PHaley to stop spells and put up Temporal barrier so no charges. Stormstrider to fire on the lightning pod (amogst other little tricks) to help devastate infantry.

With the anti charge, anti infantry and disruption effects (and we lack Power Booster), what are our viable options to dealing with this list?

This pretty much goes for most armies against phaley

[Wulfy]

We have many mechanisms to either block LOS or stopping them from shooting at us. The brick is very effective against Cygnar. I suspect it will be very effective against this. Neither Judy or Avatar are subject to disruption. Personally I think a couple reckoners and a vanquisher can clean up against that army. Have choir sing passage instead of battle. Then shoot stuff and make them come to you. By the time Stormwall gets to you it should be damaged enough two reckoners can walk up and take it down. Mean time our jacks should be in pretty good shape. Reckoner is there to take out troops. Save your infantry behind the brick to go forward and stop charges when you get close. I have rarely been out gunned by Cygnar. I think Judy with 2 reckoners + 2 vassals, is the ultimate gunline. with help of passage, you will take out one of their jacks before you are ever damaged and your army is safely behind your jack line. I regularly hear Cygnar players at my LGS complain about Menoth being too shooty.

[Oniwasabi]

One of the biggest combo's right now seems to be coming from PHaley + Stormwall + Stormstrider. PHaley to stop spells and put up Temporal barrier so no charges. Stormstrider to fire on the lightning pod (amogst other little tricks) to help devastate infantry.

With the anti charge, anti infantry and disruption effects (and we lack Power Booster), what are our viable options to dealing with this list?

Choir makes things untargettable by ranged attacks. Cygnar does not have access to THAT many things that can grant Magic Weapon. Any jack spam with the choir trumps this nicely, Stormwall is a beatstick, but it cannot take on that many Protectorate jacks in one go, and with the Choir (and a lot of potential upkeep removal to make sure there is no Arcane shield to deal with) the survivors should do more than sufficient damage to take it out in retaliation. The only disruption effect if you position well will be against a single warjack each turn that the Cygnar player will have to boost the damage roll on (lightning pod only disrupts if it DAMAGES warjacks) so it should be a relatively simple game at that point. Stormwall + Stormstrider is 28 points, so pick your favorite 3 heavies and the choir and you should be set to deal with this all day long.

This is assuming you don't want to counter using Judicators, which basically will do the same thing except the Stormwall unbuffed (and I am reasonable certain that Haley does not have any damage buffs) doesn't hit hard enough to take out a Judicator in one turn of melee combat (particularly if say, Defender's Ward is available) whereas with upkeep removal and the choir Judi should have no trouble reducing a Stormwall to a wreck marker in one go.

[Kej]

@PG On

Just remember to not be anywhere near his pod as protection from shooting does not apply to e-leaps. His original target is his own pod and from there he dumps a hefty amount of e-leaps every turn