Ranking Officers

[quindraco]

So, uh, I feel really dumb for asking this, but I cannot find the rule for the life of me. Can anyone point me to where in Wrath or the Errata it indicates the base size of the units Ranking Officers can attach to? I'm dead certain I saw a rule back when they came out saying they could only attach to small or medium based units, but now I can't find the rule anywhere.

[OmegaLolrus]

I THINK it's just in their individual rules... like Murdoch is "Attachment [Small- or Medium-based Mercenary Unit]".

[solkan]

Are you sure that rule exists?

Each ranking officer is supposed to have any restrictions specified for itself, so if there is someone who can't attach to a specific base size, that would be specific to the particular model.

Edit: So, yeah, I agree with OmegaLolrus. And I'll add the example of the Protectorate Attendant Priest having Attachment [Small- or Medium-Based Mercenary].

I vaguely remember a kerfluffle about a theme giving free unit attachments and trying to argue that that overrode the attachment restrictions, but I think the Infernals vetoed that.

[quindraco]

Thanks, guys! But..... now I'm super confused. I was there for that kerfluffle, and the Infernals never posted in the thread (it was actually locked by a mod), I just double checked it to be sure. I'll use Valachev as an example.

Valachev has two special rules on his card germaine to this discussion.

1) Attachment[Small or Medium Based Mercenary]: This model can be attached to a small or medium based Mercenary unit.
2) Ranking Officer.

Please note these are SEPARATE rules! On page 17 of Wrath, it clearly says:

"Ranking Officers are unit attachments that can be added to any Mercenary unit in the army."

This is the same fundamental issue as Reznik's tier, but I didn't notice it at the time - and as I said, no Infernal ever posted about it. Summing up in brief: There is a rule allowing Valachev (or indeed any RO) to attach to Steelhead Cavalry; I just quoted it, and it is on page 17 of Wrath. There is no rule anywhere saying they cannot attach to the unit. Can I or can I not attach Valachev to Steelhead Cavalry?

Related: "Units" don't have base sizes; the terms "small-based unit" and "medium-based unit" aren't standard game terms that I'm aware of. In particular, there are units - such as Herne and Jonne, and Dannon Blythe and Bull - that contain models which are both sizes. Are Herne and Jonne a small-based unit? Are they a medium-based unit? If they're neither, can Valachev attach to them? His attachment rule explicitly refers only to those two aforementioned unit "types".

[solkan]

I direct you to the Attachments rules in Prime Mk II:

Each attachment's rules list the unit types to which it can be added.

That's what "Attachment[Small or Medium Based Mercenary]" is for. That's the types of units to which that attachment can be added.

As far as I know, the January 2012 Errata is the most current, and that doesn't seem to contain anything dealing with the text you quoted. But, I am absolutely certain that it should be something like
"Ranking Officers are unit attachments that can be added to any qualifying Mercenary unit in the army." because all of the ranking officers should list a restriction.

Edit: Counter point: Nothing in the rules defines the term "living unit" or "undead unit" either, and I'm fairly certain I can find references to those, too.

[Valander]

I am 98% confident on how this works. Checking for the 2%.

[quindraco]

Edit: Counter point: Nothing in the rules defines the term "living unit" or "undead unit" either, and I'm fairly certain I can find references to those, too.

This is a completely valid point, so I'll ask - is Prime Alexia a living unit or an undead unit? If the answer is neither, does that imply Valachev cannot attach to units of mixed base sizes?

[solkan]

This is a completely valid point, so I'll ask - is Prime Alexia a living unit or an undead unit? If the answer is neither, does that imply Valachev cannot attach to units of mixed base sizes?

Half way through my first response, I changed my mind. I'm pretty sure in Mk I the answer was that Prime Alexia's unit is neither a "living unit" nor an "undead unit" because the unit contains one or more models that lack the appropriate quality.
But that's probably a moot point, since Alexia's the case I was thinking about for a model having a rule affecting undead units.

I'm a bit confused whether "Small- or Medium-based Unit" is supposed to indicate "A unit containing models with small bases and/or models with medium bases". Since I certainly don't recall any "Living or dead unit" type rules.

[HellVenom]

basic boolean or statment would indicate as long as there isn't an illegal model(in this case a large model) in the unit than the officer can attach. xor usually doesn't show up in games with out some serious fanfare

[quindraco]

basic boolean or statment would indicate as long as there isn't an illegal model(in this case a large model) in the unit than the officer can attach. xor usually doesn't show up in games with out some serious fanfare

Check the wiki in my sig, sir; or is always xor in this game. Prime example: covering fire.

[HellVenom]

Not to be too much of a bad person here, but....

The "exclusive or" in the wiki is more like the nested or statment were the first true statment precludes any other following tests, in logic that is still an or statment.The xor that I am refering to the the "either, but not both" xor. Ie if a unit in ran into the template effect and ended its activation in covering fire it would not get shot if xor was used in the line, but we both know your "exclusive or" explanation is the one that is used. Basically our xor's aren't the same.

Back to the question at hand. With your "exclusive or" Valchev could still be taken with a mixed unit because of the presence of a small model in the unit would preclude any further conditions. In theory, you could have a small and large base mixed unit operate with Valachev
.

[quindraco]

ADDENDUM TO THREAD:

There was an Infernal post when I wasn't looking, here; Valander has added a rule to the Ranking Officers that actually exist (since all of them have the same attachment wording) saying that they cannot attach to Large or Huge based units, which I am including here for anyone who searches up this post in the future. I will be adding this to the wiki as soon as he gets back with the definition of unit bases (e.g. what Herne and Jonne are), with a full explanation of which units the three existing ROs can and can't attach to.

[MagnustheJust]

Hey Quindraco...

You most certainly can attach Valachev to Alexia & the Risen!! They are a Mercenary unit, and I just reread his listing - no restriction on the models being living impaired or not. The unit in question just must work for the intended faction. So the Risen themselves would count as friendly Khadoran models as long as Valachev lives.

Although, any Thrall Warriors Alexia made would still be Mercenary solos...

[Gamingdevil]

Hey Quindraco...

You most certainly can attach Valachev to Alexia & the Risen!! They are a Mercenary unit, and I just reread his listing - no restriction on the models being living impaired or not. The unit in question just must work for the intended faction. So the Risen themselves would count as friendly Khadoran models as long as Valachev lives.

Although, any Thrall Warriors Alexia made would still be Mercenary solos...

That wasn't the question though, the "what definition does a mixed unit fall under" was added later

[bitmatic]

This is a completely valid point, so I'll ask - is Prime Alexia a living unit or an undead unit? If the answer is neither, does that imply Valachev cannot attach to units of mixed base sizes?

Living/Undead is a property of a model - not a unit. I am 99% sure there is no such thing as a living/undead unit in the rules anywhere.

[vintersbastard]

Living/Undead is a property of a model - not a unit. I am 99% sure there is no such thing as a living/undead unit in the rules anywhere.

Well, Regrowth specifies a small-based living unit as its target. And I dare say it sets the precedent in case this ever gets important for anything else.

[bitmatic]

I stand corrected.... Good call.

[bitmatic]

It does complicate this discussion a bit actually, since if Maudlin's ruling still stands, then Herne & Jonne is neither a small- nor a medium-based unit, and so can not have Valachev attached

[Valander]

The Attachment rule tells you what you can attach to. If it is not mentioned, then you cannot attach to it, and per rule priority, cannot trumps can or must.

If a unit has multiple base sizes, it may be attached to as long as it does not contain an ineligible size. That was kind of a "second question," though, and should have been in another thread.