Kaelyssa 35pt List - New Player

[Kyria]

So, as the title says, am a brand new player after being tempted in by some friends - and I've fallen victim to Elf Love, so with that in mind... am wanting to see about designing a decent list before I splash out on buying it all... any comments/suggestions would be much appreciated.
What I have in mind is...

[Tier 2]
Kaelyssa, Night's Whisper (*7pts)
* Aspis (4pts)
* Phoenix (10pts)
Mage Hunter Strikeforce (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Mage Hunter Commander (0pts)
Mage Hunter Strikeforce (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Mage Hunter Commander (2pts)
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios (3pts)
Ghost Sniper (2pts)
Ghost Sniper (2pts)
Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts)
Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts)

The above gets me to 30/35 pts...
For the remaining 5pts I can't decide between adding
* Gorgon (5pts)
~or~
Arcanist (1pts)
Arcanist (1pts)
Narn, Mage Hunter of Ios (3pts)
[note; this option gets me to Tier 3]

My local gaming clubs have players of every faction from warmachine and hordes, so there's little to no point tailoring it for specific builds... am looking for an all around list to use.
<3

[MMMMK]

Well, all of those models can work fine in different lists except maybe the Gorgon (but some people do like the 'jack). I wouldn't go crazy with the tier lists, particularly buying two MHSF boxes just to make the tier. The reason is that when you want to expand to play different lists, you will rarely want to field 2 MHSF units except at very large point levels. That said, if you are dead set on the tier then feel free to ignore my suggestions

So I'd buy a second unit to complement the MHSF (which are an amazing unit and really define our faction) instead of a second MHSF unit. Some good candidates include Sentinels and Halberdiers, both of which will allow you to build a drastically different kind of list from the one above. All three of those units work well with most of our other warcasters in different ways. So in brief: long term I think you'll be happier not going for the tier list. Buy a different unit for variety instead.

[joelker41]

I would honestly avoid the tier if you are just starting out. She doesn't do much to support her MHSF units and that can be a pain.

She really likes jamming infantry like Halbs or Sentinels. The MHSF by themselves can struggle to dish out consistent hits or damage when besides aiming they will never be above RAT 6. A banshee to knock things down with would be a solid option with phantom hunter.

My full thoughts on her are in my signature, pretty expansive article.

[Murkhadh]

I would honestly avoid the tier if you are just starting out. She doesn't do much to support her MHSF units and that can be a pain.

She really likes jamming infantry like Halbs or Sentinels. The MHSF by themselves can struggle to dish out consistent hits or damage when besides aiming they will never be above RAT 6. A banshee to knock things down with would be a solid option with phantom hunter.

My full thoughts on her are in my signature, pretty expansive article.

Yea this, get some melee, and the banshee with witchhound is sick.

[joelker41]

Yea this, get some melee, and the banshee with witchhound is sick.

*Marks calendar*

First time Murk and I agreed!

[Kyria]

Well, allow me to explain a bit...

The tier wasn't "by choice" i picked some stuff I liked and it just turned to match her tier.
The only thing about the Tier i liked was the fact it gave me a free UA, meaning that I can have 2 units both with UA's which gave my entire army (except jacks) advanced deployment.
-I chose MHSF's because of Stealth - I like the survivability that provides in the list.
-I took the Phoenix because of its Regening Shields and AoE horde control ability.
-Aspis because... well, its a cheap lightjack with Regening shields, the blocking power and beatback is a side bonus
-2 Ghosts+Eiryss for doing auto 9 dmg seems extremely helpfull for facing off high ARM Khador or various Hordes Warbeasts (plus Eiryss's other stuff)
-Assassins for taking out primary targets with massive damage output seems sensible, but am always of the oppinion "If you want to make sure you achieve what you need, dont try just once"

However... taking everyones suggestions in mind... what is your oppinion of:

Kaelyssa, Night's Whisper (*7pts)
* Aspis (4pts)
* Banshee (10pts)
Dawnguard Invictors (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Soulless Escort (1pts)
Mage Hunter Strikeforce (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Mage Hunter Commander (2pts)
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios (3pts)
Ghost Sniper (2pts)
Ghost Sniper (2pts)
Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts)
Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts)

[Murkhadh]

*Marks calendar*

First time Murk and I agreed!

I'm sure there had to be another time, I just didn't tell you.

[Lord Sessadore]

About Phoenix vs. Banshee, I think people were just pointing out the Banshee as a solid alternative option. The Phoenix is also one of our premiere jacks and our casters almost never regret having one. Kae can make really good use of its arc node, too. Taking a Phoenix with her is not a bad move by any means. That said, neither is taking a Banshee. Take both if you like!

For the rest of it, I think the second list is better for starting out simply because you're not doubling up on units. Doubling on solos is OK, since most of our solos are quite good and often work better in pairs anyway. With units, on the other hand, you're usually better served taking two different units (Stormfalls and Battle Mages are sometimes exceptions). The real reason why is because our UA's really make our units - they're solid on their own, they're amazing with the UA's. So on that note, I would try to get the Invictor UA in there if you want to play them.

Another solo to think about is the Arcanist, as well - I feel like I say this all the time, but Arcanists are awesome. I feel like I forgot my leg at home if I don't have one around, heh. Power Booster is great for focus efficiency when you're not going into melee, repair kind of speaks for itself, and Concentrated Power was our only melee damage buff for jacks until Vyros2 (and even then, he's only one caster and Synergy stacks with CP anyway).

[Kyria]

hrmm... in that case...

Kaelyssa, Night's Whisper (*7pts)
* Banshee (10pts)
* Phoenix (10pts)
Dawnguard Invictors (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
Mage Hunter Strikeforce (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Mage Hunter Commander (2pts)
Arcanist (1pts)
Ghost Sniper (2pts)
Ghost Sniper (2pts)
Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts)
Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts)

Unfortunately drops Eiryss, but makes it 2 heavies instead of 1 heavy 1 light and gets me the Arcanist.

[neathleanan]

Interesting. I'm looking at something very similar, however I've dropped the Invictors and Ghost Snipers, and gone for Stormfall Archers for crowd control instead.

With the spare five points I have an Artificer for his force barrier and to knock stuff about (his Mat 8 is great!) and Sylys.

Strangely, the Ghost Snipers and pEiryess will be used as reinforcements...

[MMMMK]

Your list is getting there, Kyria. I'd try to max out either the Vics or the MHSF (Or both, and lose some solos). The Invictors in particular really benefit from having more bodies, and their UA is very helpful too.

Personally, I try to have 2 Arcanists if I'm running two heavies. The arcanist is such a good, cheap support piece that I tend to run two in every list (although if you have just one heavy you might not need two) so I'd try to get the second one in there.

[Kyria]

Are there any immediate weaknesses/inherent things wrong that I should keep an eye out for or be trying to fix?

[Lord Sessadore]

The only real weakness I can see is that it's pretty focused on ranged with no melee specialist units. That's fine, though, especially since both Invictors and the MHSF can do melee if they need to.

Should be good. I might switch a couple things to 'optimize' it (involving maxing the invictors/adding their UA, if you're curious), but it's your list - play it, see how you like it, adjust if you feel it necessary.

[Kyria]

So... potentially final last attempt at tweaks before I finally stop... having discussed the list with friends who've been playing IRL a bit more and reading various other forum threads/other peoples lists a bit more and reading rules of things a bit more...
Decided to take advantage of the Jack Marshall rule on the Invictors, as well as realising how good the Combined Shot + UA is...
Still love the MHSF so I wanted to atleast keep a base unit of them in... (especially after play testing when they killed a Khador 'jack in a single round)
Can't bring myself not to take the solos, but with everyones advice and again play testing the Arcanist was quite usefull so I added him in... sadly no room for Eiryss, but the rest are there to play.
Lastly for the Jacks ... cant decide between Phoenix or Banshee - am gonna play test a bit before deciding which but both have been great.
Left me with 6pts... couldnt decide between Gorgon+Soulless Escort, Aspis+2pts (didnt know what to take), or a Chimera...

Kaelyssa, Night's Whisper (*7pts)
* Phoenix (10pts)
Dawnguard Invictors (Leader and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
* Aspis (4pts)
* Dawnguard Invictor Officer & Standard (2pts)
Heavy Rifle Team (Leader and Grunts) (2pts)
Mage Hunter Strikeforce (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Arcanist (1pts)
Ghost Sniper (2pts)
Ghost Sniper (2pts)
Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts)
Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts)

[Xeurian]

Lastly for the Jacks ... cant decide between Phoenix or Banshee - am gonna play test a bit before deciding which but both have been great. Left me with 6pts... couldnt decide between Gorgon+Soulless Escort, Aspis+2pts (didnt know what to take), or a Chimera...

Kaelyssa, Night's Whisper (*7pts)
* Phoenix (10pts)
Dawnguard Invictors (Leader and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
* Aspis (4pts)
* Dawnguard Invictor Officer & Standard (2pts)
Heavy Rifle Team (Leader and Grunts) (2pts)
Mage Hunter Strikeforce (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Arcanist (1pts)
Ghost Sniper (2pts)
Ghost Sniper (2pts)
Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts)
Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts)

Although you are dead set on the solos, are you certain about the heavy rifle team? With those two points you could be using the UA for the Mage Hunter Strikeforce which I think is a better option as the Dawnguard Invictors (using combined ranged attacks) and the Ghost Snipers should be more than enough to fire at heavier targets (not to mention some help from a Mage Hunter Assassin from time to time). I feel as though you were considering heavy armor in your thought process by adding the Heavy Rifle Team. Though I can't argue against their effectiveness, I can't count the amount of times people have told me to put them back on the shelf (but they look so cool!). Otherwise as long as that Aspis being marshaled under the Invictors is a typo (is there a benefit I'm not seeing here? Kaelyssa can manage a heavy and a light on her own 7 focus not to mention with the assistance of the arcanist) I think you have a pretty good list.

[Kyria]

So, in the end went for Sylys instead of the Heavy Rifle Team.
Aspis was turned into a Griffon.

[Kyria]

Have played a few games now using the list and it works beautifully....

Played against Legion x2, Skorne, Khador and Menoth... 4 wins, 1 loss.

The list is doing exemplary at taking out warbeasts and warjacks, or softening them up at range - then when stuff gets close Kaelyssa's feat is buying me an extra turn to shoot or charge or retreat as needed...

-Invictors to date have sniped pLylyth, eSeverius and 2 Warbeasts
(Griffon was usefull to kill 1 warbeast with Flank - and the Marshal saving me focus has been very usefull)
-MHSF to date have cleaved through 2 Heavyjacks and 2 Warbeasts (Killed in 1 turn every time)
-Assassins have taken out more solo's than I can count with their 4" melee range <3
-Snipers have been usefull for taking off final wounds/systems or sniping enemy UA's
-I want to marry the Phoenix... its killed so many infantry and Light jacks/beasts I should paint it blood red.
-Kaelyssa being used as an offensive spell/shooting caster has been wonderful and I've been using her for dealing with infantry... her Energy Siphon has been critical in dealing with Hordes players... (stupid damage transfering *fist shake*)

Anyways... with those notes, thank you everyone for helping tweak the list... love you all ^^

[Murkhadh]

Have played a few games now using the list and it works beautifully....

Played against Legion x2, Skorne, Khador and Menoth... 4 wins, 1 loss.

The list is doing exemplary at taking out warbeasts and warjacks, or softening them up at range - then when stuff gets close Kaelyssa's feat is buying me an extra turn to shoot or charge or retreat as needed...

-Invictors to date have sniped pLylyth, eSeverius and 2 Warbeasts
(Griffon was usefull to kill 1 warbeast with Flank - and the Marshal saving me focus has been very usefull)
-MHSF to date have cleaved through 2 Heavyjacks and 2 Warbeasts (Killed in 1 turn every time)
-Assassins have taken out more solo's than I can count with their 4" melee range <3
-Snipers have been usefull for taking off final wounds/systems or sniping enemy UA's
-I want to marry the Phoenix... its killed so many infantry and Light jacks/beasts I should paint it blood red.
-Kaelyssa being used as an offensive spell/shooting caster has been wonderful and I've been using her for dealing with infantry... her Energy Siphon has been critical in dealing with Hordes players... (stupid damage transfering *fist shake*)

Anyways... with those notes, thank you everyone for helping tweak the list... love you all ^^

Congratz, glad its going well for you. Keep Murdering those evil magic users!