Retribution's 'jacks make me depressed.

[Ivellis]

Warning, this will be a pointless rant.

I'd like to start by saying that Retribution is my favorite faction in the game, we have the coolest fluff, the best infantry models, some of the coolest warcasters and a really interesting playstyle. Plus even my favorite Cryx warcaster if from the Retribution and still is looking out for Ios in his own twisted way.

However, and this is a big thing: I do not like our 'jacks at all, the models don't interest me, way too much open space, strange heads (and the insanely large codpieces do nothing to help with that) and almost everyone of them feels at least a point overcosted, and then we don't even have a proper 'jack 'caster like every other faction has. I was really hoping the Vyre 'jacks would change that, and while I do like them more than the Shyeel 'jacks, they are still below any other factions 'jacks in my mind.

This is why I have yet to buy a single Retribution model, they're my favorite faction in the game and I don't own one model. I've proxied and played games in vassal many times. (I do own the books after all) But I can never bring myself to start an army because of those 'jacks. *sigh*

I'm not quite sure what the point in making this thread was, just wanted to get out my frustration over this. The instant PP releases a 'jack or two that I like for Retribution I'll buy up a whole army.

[Tol]

That's funny. My love for Retribution starts with the Jacks.

I love our armor, and everything you mentioned, but I especially love our Jacks.

[Dubstep]

WE HAVE A JACKCASTER NOW!!! check out every vyros2 thread u can find. At first we were like "he sucks" then after playing him "HE ROCKS!!!"

I love our jacks. The entire reason I play this faction is I love the fluff, I love the elven assasin look, and the myrms look so sleek.

Now, i dont know why you dont like them. Alot of ppl dont like their look, and some do. I am of the do catagory (especially that griffon... god its so sexy... I can just see it leaping over a unit of houseguard and slaming into the front line swinging that f****g spear around and beheading everyone).

Before vyros2, i shared your sentiments about how strong our jacks were. In my head it was "wow, these jacks have some great abilities on their weapons and they are really strong all round... if only they were a slight bit stronger". Rat 5 and low power melee was what our jacks featured, and it made me sad. I tried my best to make them viable, going as far as using ossyans teir list to get 4 arcanists to support them. Now with vyros2, i have the power I've been wanting for so long!! god it feels so GOOD to destroy things now.

In my opinion, all jacks look bad in their origional pose. Try seeing what your jacks would look like in a different position. For example...

Griffon low to the ground about to charge forth
A hyrda with its fist following through a punch (because vyros2 makes hyrdas good in melee)
A phyonix with his sword above his head, bringing a final blow to an enemy of Ios
A banshee, stabbing an opponents underbelly with his dagger

the list goes on

[Ivellis]

The Griffon is actually probably the only 'jack in Ret that I honestly like the look of, so I can agree with you there. However, I don't know if I'd call Vyros2 a 'jack caster, I've played a lot of Amon and synergy isn't all its cracked up to be once your opponent expects it. It is a good tool though and I can see taking more 'jacks with him than other casters.

I can see where you're coming from with posing them differently though, that might actually go a long way in making them look better to me. Thanks.

[Demeritus]

I like the jacks just fine, though they do put a lot of people off. As for eVyros, he is not a jack caster but he is definitely a caster that can help them and they go a lot better with him than pretty much all our other casters.

Also some of the aesthetics of the jacks can be fixed by changing the paint scheme or the poses, a friend of mine modified his Phoenix to have the Hydras gauntlets so it didn't look as frail as normal.

[joelker41]

Well it's Friday so one of these was bound to pop up.

Having played Khador, Cygnar, and Mercs I can honestly say I like Ret myrmidons the best. (They are myrmidons not jacks, maybe yours feel disrespected by constantly being called the wrong name)

Ret jacks are my favorite part of the faction by far. Banshee and Phoenix are crazy good and fun to play.

[Dubstep]

I call him a jack caster because he can run jacks more effectively than any other caster we have. Comparing him to other jack casters of course hes sub-par, but thats ret casters for you :S

Difference between Amon and Vyros2 with synergy is that

1. Vyros can get his jacks into melee quicker and more effectively with his feat and the natural quickness of our jacks

2. Unlike Amon, Vyros can survive in the frontlines for synergy to be effective. Amon often times cant take the heat, and must play farther back, making synergy alot weaker.

3. Menoth jacks are good by themselves without a jack caster. Our jacks just need that little +2 boost to make them very effective.

4. We have an exceptional synergy starter with the griffon. Built in pathfinder, Birds eye, a very long threat range and mat 8 on charge.

[Murkhadh]

I'm willing to call eVyros a jack caster, he lets me put 5 jacks in a list, that qualifies for me.

For the reasons stated above, we have griffons to start off the synergy chains and arcanists to help with focus and damage buffs.

[Rogue Sun]

I agree with Joelker. Try not to think of them as warjacks. They're not. Warjacks are slow lumbering monstrosities that belch smoke and breath steam. They grind and whir at you, stomping the earth, leaving a trail of destruction in their wake as ugly as the grime and blood coating their rusting Iron bodies.

Myrmidons are state of the art war engines, equipped with an array of firepower and hard hitting weaponry both of which are so advanced that they cannot even be described as mechanikal but in fact arcanikal. They are more efficient, more versatile and more elegantly designed.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

However, and this is a big thing: I do not like our 'jacks at all, the models don't interest me, way too much open space, strange heads (and the insanely large codpieces do nothing to help with that) and almost everyone of them feels at least a point overcosted, and then we don't even have a proper 'jack 'caster like every other faction has. I was really hoping the Vyre 'jacks would change that, and while I do like them more than the Shyeel 'jacks, they are still below any other factions 'jacks in my mind.

When your round ears are used to this:

of course this:

would seem like way too much open space, strange and a little pricey....

/saidasparochialelfincharacter

[PG_Dawnlord Ed]

Oh snap! Well played, good sir!

[Mordjinn]

I do agree that the studio pose myrmidons look static and bad. Also some of the heads look like ducks. Overall I didn't get the vibe of a vicious killing machine from them and so I did some modding. Maybe you like myrmidons more like this:

[Wutwut]

I agree to some extent with the OP, the heads in particular always remind me of "duckface", and although it strangely doesn't offend me, the cod pieces are very strange in that they don't seem to have a discernable purpose :\

At one point I really thought what was keeping the original shyeel myrs from being more detailed was the fact that their weapon / special action systems are supposed to be shield based, something impossible to directly sculp outside of a diorama like miniature (unfeasable) but Vyree followed somewhat closely apart from the physical ranged weapon systems.

Edit: love the moded myr posted up was going to attemp to do a demon/samurai mask head but having trouble finding a demon head that fits the bill and doesn't cost me an arm and a leg.

[Murkhadh]

The way the jacks "look" is a bit silly at times but as I've reposed them they have grown on me.

[joelker41]

I actually like the look of our myrmidons. Are they weird? Sure. But fluff wise these are incredibly unique machines with some drastic design elements and weapons. They are bound to look funny.

Except the Manticore/Hydra. Really don't like their heads.

[dragonforcehair]

okay yeah. i think all the ret 'jacks look weird and ugly if not painted right and/or reposed. and thus all 7 of mine are unpainted (but reposed - i'll get around to it).

I LOVE playing with them though. they all do some really cool stuff and though their melee punch is a bit weak we do have arcanists to give +2 damage (and they're easy enough to keep safe when doing this).
we also have 1 gun and 2 melee weapons on ALL our heavies! look at the other factions. they have to choose to have a gun or a fist (most of them).
we have 2 of the 3 heavy arcnodes in the game. and ours are faster than the other one. and they hit hard enough. and have AOE guns.

The only 'jack i dont like rules-wise is the gorgon but then i've never tested it either.

having tested eVyros i don't see him as a 'jack caster at all. i find bringing only aspis/griffons (3 or 4 of them) works fine to jam stuff up or shield guard him/the sentinel UA and then get synergy started for Vyros himself.
i've had Vyros kill 1 and a half wrastlers from full health with +2 from synergy. bring the 'jacks to do other stuff in his list. dawnguard infantry hits harder than the 'jacks for no focus. Aiyana helps with that too.

- dfh

(Also sorry for the grammar - my comma key is bust atm)

[Murkhadh]

okay yeah. i think all the ret 'jacks look weird and ugly if not painted right and/or reposed. and thus all 7 of mine are unpainted (but reposed - i'll get around to it).

I LOVE playing with them though. they all do some really cool stuff and though their melee punch is a bit weak we do have arcanists to give +2 damage (and they're easy enough to keep safe when doing this).
we also have 1 gun and 2 melee weapons on ALL our heavies! look at the other factions. they have to choose to have a gun or a fist (most of them).
we have 2 of the 3 heavy arcnodes in the game. and ours are faster than the other one. and they hit hard enough. and have AOE guns.

The only 'jack i dont like rules-wise is the gorgon but then i've never tested it either.

having tested eVyros i don't see him as a 'jack caster at all. i find bringing only aspis/griffons (3 or 4 of them) works fine to jam stuff up or shield guard him/the sentinel UA and then get synergy started for Vyros himself.
i've had Vyros kill 1 and a half wrastlers from full health with +2 from synergy. bring the 'jacks to do other stuff in his list. dawnguard infantry hits harder than the 'jacks for no focus. Aiyana helps with that too.

- dfh

(Also sorry for the grammar - my comma key is bust atm)

Amon is considered a jack caster in menoth and synergy is why, and we do it better than he does. Now he's no mortenebra or Nemo but I think he qualifies.

[Mastershake]

In general the times I've seen Ret jacks done in darker colors with a few exceptions I've found they look less good. The white tone actually goes well with the curves to make something that has a distinct and alien feel which is very appropriate for Iosan tech in general. TBH the studio scheme on the heavies is actually what first interested me in Ret. Cygnar had steambots, Khador had russian steambots, Menoth had cathedral steambots and Cryx had steambots that just dug their way out of a chaos warrior accessory sprue. Coming from 40k and WFB's visual aesthetic it was pretty bland up until I saw the new faction coming out with jacks that looked like a cross between wraithlords and battlesuits with an odd white color and teal glow. To put it simply the Ret jacks in the studio scheme are very eye-catching and after over two years, the little eccentricities of the design have a somewhat endeering quality.

[Xeurian]

I like the studio scheme as well when its done right. The white really doesn't bother me though I would prefer it to cover less of the model. I like the way they look with the faction symbols/interesting patterns on the large surfaces of myrmidon shoulder armour. I just painted them a different colour because its my first time painting models and I have heard that white is a nightmare...

[bouncymischa]

In general the times I've seen Ret jacks done in darker colors with a few exceptions I've found they look less good. The white tone actually goes well with the curves to make something that has a distinct and alien feel which is very appropriate for Iosan tech in general.

I'm rather fond of the studio scheme myself, but as I have absolutely no skill in painting miniatures, I rely on my brother's good graces (and occasionally paying him) to get my models painted, and even he struggles with large swathes of white. So I ended up deciding to go for an "olive drab" color scheme on most of my myrmidons, aiming for something similar to the dropship from Aliens. I suppose that could be described as an "alien feel"... :P(One of these days I'll actually get around to posting pictures of my army here...)

[Mastershake]

I'm rather fond of the studio scheme myself, but as I have absolutely no skill in painting miniatures, I rely on my brother's good graces (and occasionally paying him) to get my models painted, and even he struggles with large swathes of white. So I ended up deciding to go for an "olive drab" color scheme on most of my myrmidons, aiming for something similar to the dropship from Aliens. I suppose that could be described as an "alien feel"... :P(One of these days I'll actually get around to posting pictures of my army here...)

White Primer is a hell of a drug

[Wutwut]

Air-brushing helps imensily Myrm wise (and general Dawnguard model wise as well). Even though you can get away with primer shinenigans, to get anywhere near the studio paint scheme you need at least 3-4 passes with different mixed grades of blues/greys/whites. If you check any of the studios models in NQ where their backs are shown they almost look dark blue instead of white.

[Mastershake]

Air-brushing helps imensily Myrm wise (and general Dawnguard model wise as well). Even though you can get away with primer shinenigans, to get anywhere near the studio paint scheme you need at least 3-4 passes with different mixed grades of blues/greys/whites. If you check any of the studios models in NQ where their backs are shown they almost look dark blue instead of white.

*shrugs* worked fine for me.

[High Artificer]

I'm also a big fan of the studio color scheme and painted my Ret as such. White is a very difficult color to work with, but while my paint job isn't up to studio standards, I'm happy with how it looks. The real problem is that as I get better at it, the later additions to my army are going to look much better than my older stuff.

I do sometimes wish I had some of the cool "steampunk" stuff that other WM factions have, but Ret's look is unique and cool, which is a huge part of why I chose the faction. (and most of the infantry just looks great) If I ever get too envious, I'll just pick up another faction.

[Arractur]

Hmm... about elven jacks. I agree that heavy jacks look pretty lame, ESPECIALLY when there are many of them in the army - they all look too similar. But LIGHT jacks of Retribution are just awesome imho, they are just like the light jacks should look and feel, if you understand what I mean.
If I ever will try Ret army it will contain 1 heavy jack as a maximum, others only light.

[Xeurian]

Hmm... about elven jacks. I agree that heavy jacks look pretty lame, ESPECIALLY when there are many of them in the army - they all look too similar. But LIGHT jacks of Retribution are just awesome imho, they are just like the light jacks should look and feel, if you understand what I mean.
If I ever will try Ret army it will contain 1 heavy jack as a maximum, others only light.

Personally I feel like the Phoenix's vents/sword look dissimilar enough to the Hydra and Manticore to separate it from them and that the Vyre chassis is different enough from the Shyeel ones to avoid confusion as well. So fielding a Phoenix, a Banshee and a Manticore might not look all that similar in that regard. I dunno, I actually like the Myrmidon look better than the Steampunk warjacks so my choices were narrowed down to Legion, Circle and Ret when I first started. I went with the Dawnguard Sentinels, a Destor Thane, a Phoenix and Kaelyssa in the end. The 'jacks I DON'T like the look of are the power fist 'jacks (Hydra/Daemon).

Mind you I find that other faction's 'jacks also look very similar to each other... It really is about looking at the weaponry and having experience with/against them to get to know what 'jack you are up against based on the head configuration alone (barring the character 'jacks they got that went on unique chassis').

[darkenn]

Honestly, RoS jacks look great, and are some of the best jacks out there!

[LoserX]

When i first started getting into Warmachine, because everyone at the LGS was picking it up and we were all sick of 40k and WFB, i only liked two armies Circle and Ret. The owner of the LGS (a great guy BTW) was playing circle and his army was the first i saw and LOVED the wolves and the armor they all had. I told him as much because the first step to picking an army for me is aesthetics as i have to enjoy looking at my army on the table, he promptly spent the next two hours talking me out of getting Circle for my first army since i was coming from Lizardmen and Space Marines (pretty straight forward armies) and Circle requires a lot of fineness and expertise to play correctly and win. Then i saw Retribution of Scyrah's Griffon model standing next to a Phoenix on some site and LOVED the look except for the paint scheme and arms on the phoenix as the tiny arms didn't look right under those amazing massive shoulder pads. So i picked up two heavy kits, a Griffon, and Kaelyssa. I made a Phoenix obviously but i instead used they hydra forearms to make it look more "armored" and reposed him to look less static. The second kit turned into a Hydra that i used the only head i like which is the Phoenix head and posed him into a "goku power up" stance as that's how i imagined them firing the shield cannon. I'm still trying to find a paint scheme that i like as i'm not a overly large fan of the white (from painting and aesthetics reasons) but thats just a process of imagination taking hold.

[Dubstep]

phoenix as the tiny arms didn't look right under those amazing massive shoulder pads.

Blasphemy!
We are the biggest shoulder pad faction, because shoulder pads = winning

[bouncymischa]

Blasphemy!
We are the biggest shoulder pad faction, because shoulder pads = winning

You know, Dubstep, I can't help but wonder if you've tried converting said shoulder pads to look like they've got speakers...?

EDIT: And now my train of thought has lead me to the idea of convering a Banshee's sonic cannon into a loudspeaker...

[Lord Sessadore]

You know, Dubstep, I can't help but wonder if you've tried converting said shoulder pads to look like they've got speakers...?

EDIT: And now my train of thought has lead me to the idea of convering a Banshee's sonic cannon into a loudspeaker...

Isn't the Sonic Pulse Cannon Discordia's? Amusing thought nonetheless :P

[bouncymischa]

Isn't the Sonic Pulse Cannon Discordia's? Amusing thought nonetheless :P

I can't remember the name of the Banshee's cannon off-hand, although I know it was one of the ones I found really interesting. (Hypnos' Phase Cannon still takes the cake, because it just sounds so sci-fi. :P) I vaguely recall it as being the source of the Banshee's command-disrupting wail, however, so the idea of replacing it with a loudspeaker that played music loud enough to interfere with its opponents (and even knock them off their feet!) amused me.

I'm still trying to think of a way to do up "Kaelyssa's Heroes", with loudspeaker-equipped Banshees to substitute for Oddball's music-playing tanks from Kelly's Heroes...

[Mastershake]

Isn't the Sonic Pulse Cannon Discordia's? Amusing thought nonetheless :P

Yes, but hilariously enough the Hydra and Banshee's guns have the same name...so basically it's the same gun...ha