High Reclaimer Tier forces

[DougE]

Hey all,

Just wondering if anyone has ever tried any of the tier lists for the either the High Reclaimer or Testemant of Menoth (Epic High Reclaimer)?

If so,any suggestions on how the play the tier?

Thanks,

Doug

[maddermax]

HR tier list:

The High Reclaimer Tier list is... well, very messed up. It doesn't include the choir, always a bad start, and it doesn't include Wracks or a hierophant to supplement the HR's very low normal focus. It then requires 3 reclaimer solos. There's very little reason to have 3 reclaimers generally, but in this list they'll often just be stealing souls away from the HR. It also requires 2 units of cleansers, which aren't generally highly regarded.

The benefits of the list are 7pt Castigators, though some would say that's what they're normally worth anyway, advance deployment on cleansers, a free soul for the reclaimer solos, and the ability to place a 3" cloud on your half the board for each heavy jack, which disappears after the first round. So, you might end up with a couple of extra clouds on your first turn, and save a point on a jack (you wouldn't generally take more than one castigator).

Now, if you didn't take the Tier list, you'd probably take Wracks and a Heirophant, which would give you the extra 2 focus you need to put 2 extra clouds on the table every turn, rather than just the first. you can take a choir, which is worth waaaay more than saving a point on the castigator, especially as you'll never have more than one castigator, but all your jacks will benefit from the choir. You might miss out on the free reclaimer soul (which is nice), but you won't have to take 3 of them that only interferes with the HRs souls gathering - one might be useful to get souls from far away, but 3 is excessive.

Anyway, I'd suggest reading up on the High Reclaimer Chronicles, which talks about the High Reclaimers tier list a bit, and how to make it work for you, but generally it's considered one of the worst tier lists on one of our hardest to use casters, so only try it if you want a real challenge.

Testament's Tier List

The testaments lists aren't all that great eitiher. To take it up to Tier 4, you need 2 units of errants, 2 units of Idrians, and your tier one benefit is that units of Zealots gain advance deployment - so you'll probably want a unit of those. That's 5 units worth 26pts if you only take min units, and more like 35-40 if you take them with some max units and U/As. That means you're looking at usually 50pt lists at least, but that's ok. Once again you're missing out on the choir and Wracks to help make running jacks easier, even though they'll usually be the only anti-heavy guys you get (Zealots are POW14, Idrians CRAing a Prey'd target are POW15+, but you'll still have a hell of a time cracking hard targets) and they won't have the choir to help them do so.

You also don't have access to Testaments favourite units, you can't take Vengers, which tend to work extremely well for his feat and Revive, and you don't even get any heavy based infantry to make the most of revive.

Anyway, the benefits are Advance deployment Zealots, +1 to the start of the game, and saving 2pts on the two idrian units, and incorporeal on your first turn of the game. Now, 2pts are nice (but not really noteworthy in a 50pt tier list). +1 for the start of the game is nice, especially with the amount of advanced deployment you have, and should see your army on the centreline first turn if you want, pushing for a senario win. The problem is that Incorporeal only happens on your turn, not the whole round, so it's only benefit, as far as I can see, is to allow you to move through terrain... which most of your army already can, thanks to lots of pathfinder. Still, a unit of Zealots that can run into cover first turn, then minifeat the second, far up the board, could be useful. You'd be far ahead of the battlegroup though, which would mean any casualties first turn probably won't be collected by Testament.

Altogether, it's not terrible, but it really needs a full 50pt list, requires you to have 2 units of Idrians, doesn't include much to crack hard targets, and doesn't have the choir or Focus help, and doesn't allow the best units for his feat or his signature revive spell. In return, you get 2pts and the ability to be playing your army very far forward turn 1, which could be an interesting tactic with the right senario, but could also be a liability against a lot of opponents.

[Wulfy]

I have never played their theme lists. Now that Maddermax has written this VERY GOOD synopsis of them, I probably never will. I do not even have the models. I see no reason to have a third reclaimer and no reason to have two units if idrians. Oh well. Max, excellent rundown. Do some more.

[DougE]

Maddermax- that is an awesome reply, very informative. I was browsing through the Menoth book, looking at the Tier lists and in some ways, I think it would be fun to try out, but at the same time, very limited to what you can have in a force. I will take your info under advisement for sure, thanks.

Doug

[Gaston]

I actually think that the HR's tier is doable, you just have to be willing to take a challenging tier on top of a challenging caster (and also have multiples of models that no one likes...but that's what ebay and bartertown are for). I'm def not done with his tier, just been waiting for the plastic kit to come out so that I'm not proxying jacks. Basically, look at the tier and build into it's benefits. The Reclaimer solos aren't as bad as it sounds, bc generally you're not losing too many guys on the way in anyway thanks to the clouds.

What you really, really have to do is figure out your exact first and second turns well beforehand, so that you can create the exact cloudwall you need since you can only drop 4 a turn. I borked my first outing pretty badly with it, but didn't really crash and burn hard at all, and I think my list was suboptimal.

[paradox]

Maddermax is correct. In sum, those tiers are pretty much poop. Now, I'm all about playing creatively and trying to find ways to make the underdog work, but then you look at, say, Cryx or Legion tiers and see how real tier lists are supposed to look.

It's like some sadistic sod at PP decided that HR/ToM needed to be HARDER to play in tier....
Or, that was just the first way they found to clear out extra inventory (IMO, the animus behind many of the tier lists requirements, especially the earlier books).

I don't own enough required pieces to do either. I have zero motivation to even try. Complete fail IMO. I generally ignore the tier lists. Harbie and Thyra (especially Thyra) being the exception, but that's because Thyra has a tier that is a real tier list, and I so happened to own 5 paladins for Harbie.

Even if the others are good, I don't care to own/assemble/paint/store/transport MOAR TFG/cleansers/reclaimers/monks/EE/cinerators/idrians.

Also, playing without choir is enough of a punishment when you do it voluntarily. I see no reason to mandate it to allow you to play a crappy tier.

[Gaston]

I'd like to straight disagree with you with joyful optimism; unfortunately I've had pretty much all of those thoughts at one point or another myself.

Best I can say is that we have to work with what we've got (at least until the NQ blesses HR with another, hopefully better tier), and while I don't think the tier is highly competitive, I do feel that it's worth taking out for a drive every now and then and can be made to work.

[DougE]

Thanks for the replies. I may look into trying out the tier list for him.

[wazatdingder]

I use to take Testament as my backup list to tier tournaments. Not that I felt it was overly great, but I figured if I came across a list that eKreoss could not deal with I would jam 3 full units of zealots in their face with Testy camping focus and souls until he could feat and charge caster. It was just fun to play.

[PG_gdaybloke]

I'm with Gaston on this one. I made a point of putting together the High Reclaimer's theme force, getting it lal pretty and painted up, and spending a few months kicking the tires. Honestly, it's one of my favourite to play. it *is* prone to bad matchups - As with any HR list, if your opponent can mitigate the wall of smoke you're in for an uphill battle - but just wait until your opponent's Goreshade list tries to send Bane Thralls into your smokewall to beat on your cleansers, when there's multiple Soulstorms lurking in the massed ranks.

It turns into a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't process for most lists, who have to look at the smokewall (yes, eyeless sight ignores it, blah blah blah). They can't shoot your stuff through it, they can't cast spells at your stuff through it, so they have to engage you in melee. They have two choices here.

1. Advance to the point where you can just advance into the smokewall and attack cleansers
2. Run into the cleansers, whose melee capacity is pretty substandard, and then beat them up

If you opt for the first, you're going to be sitting within range for the Cleansers to drop a couple of massive Incinerates on you, or shots from Sunbursts or Rocket Volleys or whatever the jacks are bringing - and yes, the Avatar's lurking in there too.

If you opt for the second, and you survive the Soulstorms from the Reclaimers hiding in the ranks, the second rank of Cleansers can spray through the first to burn you down, Castigators can combust without fear of setting Cleansers on fire to clear you off, and again - there's the Avatar, and whatever other jacks the High Reclaimer's brought with him.

It's a slow moving list, it's a defensive list, but I've found it to be effective.

HR's theme force will NOT give you the stereotypical round where HR has collected a bajillion souls, but if you can let that concept go and try it out, you might find that it has its place. I've enjoyed it.

[Gaston]

I'm with Gaston on this one. I made a point of putting together the High Reclaimer's theme force, getting it lal pretty and painted up, and spending a few months kicking the tires. Honestly, it's one of my favourite to play. it *is* prone to bad matchups - As with any HR list, if your opponent can mitigate the wall of smoke you're in for an uphill battle - but just wait until your opponent's Goreshade list tries to send Bane Thralls into your smokewall to beat on your cleansers, when there's multiple Soulstorms lurking in the massed ranks.

Funny you mention that, I was actually re-reading your blog earlier this week for some ideas.