Old Witch: Rifle Corps without Joe?

[Karl Eller]

I'm thinking about a two-list Steamroller event using eSorscha and Old Witch, but I'm running into a few issues with character restrictions, specifically Kovnik Joe. Great Bears are more-or-less replaceable with Demo Corps, and Old Witch doesn't need Saxon Orrik, but both 'casters kind of want to be running Winter Guard. eSorscha is the obvious choice with either WGDS (Iron Flesh) or WGRC (Shatter Storm), but Old Witch with Rifle Corps really tickles my fancy, however I'm not sure how well they'd work without Joe to boost their accuracy.

For reference, I'm thinking something along the lines of:
Points: 50/50
Zevanna Agha, the Old Witch of Khador (*3pts)
* Black Ivan (10pts)
Doom Reavers (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Greylord Escort (2pts)
Greylord Ternion (Leader and 2 Grunts) (4pts)
Iron Fang Pikemen (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Black Dragon Officer & Standard (2pts)
Man-o-war Demolition Corps (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (4pts)
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)

(I may swap the Doom Reavers for Kayazy Assassins + UA)

[scout's honor]

While I like the added area denial the RC offer to the Old Witch with Suppressing Fire, they feel quite acutely that Zevanna can boost neither their accuracy nor their damage output. Joe and to a lesser extent the Greylords can help them hit more easily, but outside the Suppressing Fire it's still just a bunch of unboostable POW 10s and the last handful of times I tried this out they just didn't get anywhere. The best use I got out of them was as a deterrent against solos, but 8 points (10 if with Joe) is a lot for that especially in an Old Witch list - I always fret about needing more oomph for my points when building OW lists. To be honest, I've pretty much given up on this setup unless I can bring Aiyana & Holt as well to help the RC with their damage output.

[The Buoyancy of Water]

What about replacing the rifle corps with a gun carriage for a similar effect? That's what I'd go with anyway

Cheers,
Dave

[Karl Eller]

What about replacing the rifle corps with a gun carriage for a similar effect? That's what I'd go with anyway

Cheers,
Dave

That's a good idea, although I don't have access to a Gun Carriage at the moment.

[The Buoyancy of Water]

If you weren't on the other side of the planet I'd give you a lend of mine

[swirly]

Actually I've been wondering the same thing about my butcher list.
I love using the Kayazy-WGRC combo with pButcher but using it means no WGDS in my other list.
Has anyone found a way around this or does it just have to be one or the other?

[The Buoyancy of Water]

You could take them with a caster that can boost accuracy such as Harkevich or the Vlads? Think they'll work nicely with Vlad3 because of Hand of Fate and Dash. Adding Joe to a list where the caster can boost accuracy just takes them from accurate to super-accurate. Generally, one buff or the other is fine

Cheers,
Dave

[Octavius_Maximus]

Well With the Old Witch, i think maximising your Control is the best.

If you combine Crows and Rifle Corps, you can get 11" across of denial (5" each + some room between them which no base could pass through well.

and on feat turn, you basically eliminate any infantry under those templates.

I use it and think its worth it. But i usually use Joe with it (my other caster is usually Artillery heavy Irusk), but if you use it for the templates then perhaps having only 1 min unit would be better for 5 points for a 4" template. OR for 10 points you could take 2 units of Rifle Corps. That means that for 10 points and 3 focus, you have around 15" of denial!

With that and scrapjack and the feat, you can usually kill off any and all light infantry. You just need to build the rest of your force around destroying the rest of his.

The Rifle corps are amazing.

[Natetehaggresar]

Another option would be to drop the UA from the doom reavers and the WGRC and go full nyss. You lose some control, but gain another melee threat, and CRA allows them to increase damage/accuracy at range to fit your needs. Also base def 15 is quite nice.

[SuperTheBoss]

Basically what it comes down to is what you want out of the unit. If you're looking for damage at range without using Joe, I would have to recommend nyss hunters (also good in melee) or steelhead rifles. I think either of those in addition to your widowmakers could do that. However, if you're looking at the WGRC for surpressing fire to supplement the OW's board control, definitely go for it because they can do that for you. If you have the models the suggestion of taking 2 min units is not a bad one at all.

[PG_Draxos]

I have them in my Old Witch list without Joe. The idea behind it for me is to be able to put out two 5 inch templates of no infantry as part of my denial attempts.

[osloco]

The WGRC range is very long, so after turn 1, I find I don't usually need to move them much. Aiming bonus makes them rat 7 which is good enough. I struggle with what to do with Joe in my lists as well. I ran them with pVlad yesterday and S&P makes them good even without joe.

[Smiles]

I've run 2 x min units of RC. It wasn't completely successful, as my opponent had more Jacks than anything, but managed to deny an objective from his infantry.

[PG_screamindaemon]

I run the witch with full nyss, deathstar, rifle corp, joe, behemoth, and the gun carriage.

I do not often have joe boosting the rifle corps. Not unless there is an overly aggressive solo/small unit. Most of the time the rifle corp is there to pair with Murder of crows and the guns from the carriage.
I'm putting down two 5" templates, and two 4" templates.
Not to mention a bunch of shooting from Nyss and joe-boosted sprays and behemoth shots if possible

It's not a cloud effect, so it doesn't block anything, but when you have the number of templates available to you as I do, you can pick your battles. low armour infantry will be blocked easily by it.