A question from a Minions player

[Dan from Chicago]

Hey y'all,

I saw an assertion in the now locked Gators have trouble with Collosals thread. It was stated(more or less) that PP promised that each Pact of the Faction would be independently competitive.

Is this documented anywhere? Where and when did it happen? Was alcohol involved on either the part of the speaker or listener?

FTR, I've played pigs and own most models available to Thornfall.
Once I decided I to put together tournament lists for the faction, I bought a ton of gators.

Here's the thing. I seriously doubt anyone from PP did say that each Pact would be independently competitive. If anything they probably said the Faction as a whole would be competitive.

We've all got expectations around the game. We should base those expectations around reality as often as possible. Nerd rage ain't pretty folks*.

*I am not accusing the original poster of the locked thread of nerd rage.

[PG_carnage4u]

the only way to respond for many will be to rehash what was already said in the other thread about 20 times, and since that thread was locked for going in circles. I dont think this one will get too far.

[Dan from Chicago]

the only way to respond for many will be to rehash what was already said in the other thread about 20 times, and since that thread was locked for going in circles. I dont think this one will get too far.

Hey, I'm asking in case I'm wrong. If there's a quote on the forum from somebody with a PPS prefix, I'll gladly concede the point

[Vicomte Athos]

It was posted a long time ago when it was stated that Gators/Pigs would become contract in the minions book a long time ago on the old forum

[PG_malfred]

Old forum posts can be found. Please verify.

[PG_Neomorte]

In the long run, it doesn't matter if it was said or not. Each pact or contract is competitive. I can take my gators and own some of the top lists out there. I have seen the same thing happen with the Farrow. But this is highly dependent on the player, not the models' stats. The two pacts are top notch. They are cohesive and feel complete. They will expand and improve. The biggest issue that is giving the competitive nonsense any credence is the lack of choices and that will improve.

[TheLoki]

In the long run, it doesn't matter if it was said or not. Each pact or contract is competitive. I can take my gators and own some of the top lists out there. I have seen the same thing happen with the Farrow. But this is highly dependent on the player, not the models' stats. The two pacts are top notch. They are cohesive and feel complete. They will expand and improve. The biggest issue that is giving the competitive nonsense any credence is the lack of choices and that will improve.

Pretty much this exactly. Minions aren't competitive yet but should change in time

[PG_Devilsquid]

Minions are competitive. That doesn't mean you won't have to work harder to win, just means that you have the chance to win.

For a 'faction' that hasn't even been around two years yet, Minions are far better off than mercs ever were at that point in their evolution. But it's unfair to look at mercs as they are now and expect the same from Minions, because they're just not there yet.

I own all the Farrow stuff (two of everything, cause bacon is yummy), and while every battle is uphill, it's still possible.

People should be honest in what they're asking for. They don't want minions to be competitive, they want the same easy buttons that the factions have.

[TheLoki]

I have to respectfully disagree Devilsquid. While minions arent unplayable, or even close to it for that matter, they are not what i would consider competitive. However i do agree that minions will only get better as time goes on. Also i agree that doing a direct comparison to mercs is not the most fair of things to do. However it is the closest thing to minions (the whole not a faction thing) that we can draw a line to. I think its a bit harsh to accuse people of asking for easy buttons. Wanting tools is not a sin.

[Dan from Chicago]

Looks like folks are going to prove Carnage right. Oh well. Too much to hope for I guess

[TheLoki]

Your question was answered mate. Unfortunately a source was not linked ( i vaguely remember it being said as well). As for what carnage said. Well you posted this within hours of the previous thread being locked. Since the topics have a thematic tie in some spill over should be expected however undesired.

That being said i do believe that PP want minions to be competitive/viable as it would be pointless to releases minions as a faction otherwise. They have made great strides with mercenaries and i expect great things from minions in time.

[Dan from Chicago]

Assrting that there was a post, without a link, from forums that were shut down more than a year before the minions book came out? Forgive me for a little skepticism. Documentation please.

[TheLoki]

You have every right to be skeptical tbh. As i said i vaguely remember something along those lines being said tho for the life of me i cant remember when or by whom. So as far as anyone is concerned it may as well never been said. Hopefully Someone can locate the post.

Not sure anyone said anything about the old forums tho. Back then Minions used the merc forums so it may be buried somewhere in there.

[PG_Devilsquid]

I have to respectfully disagree Devilsquid. While minions arent unplayable, or even close to it for that matter, they are not what i would consider competitive. However i do agree that minions will only get better as time goes on. Also i agree that doing a direct comparison to mercs is not the most fair of things to do. However it is the closest thing to minions (the whole not a faction thing) that we can draw a line to. I think its a bit harsh to accuse people of asking for easy buttons. Wanting tools is not a sin.

I include myself when I say easy buttons. i look at the character jacks and support solos that factions have, then look at my pigs, and sigh a little.

You say that people want tools, and I agree. But what they need is patience. We have no idea what gators and farrow get in the next book (aside from casters), so raising a hubbub about needing tools when those very same tools may be coming in the next book is a bit silly. We want our tools NOW, because factions got new shiney, and it shows us just how limited on options we are.

Hell, I could complain that gators have three heavies, two lights, and awesome animi compared to the Farrow. Where's my balance there?

[TheLoki]

I include myself when I say easy buttons. i look at the character jacks and support solos that factions have, then look at my pigs, and sigh a little.

You say that people want tools, and I agree. But what they need is patience. We have no idea what gators and farrow get in the next book (aside from casters), so raising a hubbub about needing tools when those very same tools may be coming in the next book is a bit silly. We want our tools NOW, because factions got new shiney, and it shows us just how limited on options we are.

Hell, I could complain that gators have three heavies, two lights, and awesome animi compared to the Farrow. Where's my balance there?

Fair enough mate, fair enough. The only other thing i know about the gargant releases for Minions is that Shick said the Bogtrog Shamblers are similar in alot of ways to Alexia and the risen. Other then that everything including number of releases is up in the air. I have great faith in PP and i'm sure we will get some stellar stuff.

[PG_Devilsquid]

Besides, nothing lets you talk more smack than beating a faction with their toys using underdogs like minions. "Oh, cygnar is the most technologically advanced nation in the realm, and you're have this giant warjack shooting cannons? Too bad you lost to pigs with stolen guns and a mad-max fetish. Sucka."



Minions is playing the game on Hard mode.

[dboeren]

I don't remember any such quote. Even if it did exist, it's pretty much meaningless though. "Competitive" is about as loaded a term as you're likely to be able to find, everyone interprets it differently.

I'm happy with my Pigs, my only complaint is that there should be more of them. What we have is plenty competitive, and the same goes for Gators. We just don't have very many options yet.

[Yertle4]

There is someone on these forums that will tell you everything is competitive. Everything.

[Rosebriar]

I literally don't understand the Minions can't handle Colossals.

Carver v. Arc Shield Stormwall
Feat
Warhog+Aggression Dial 2 p+s 18 1 p+s 17 total damage 18.5
3 fury remaining for 3 more attacks at 6.5 damage each equals 19.5
that's 38 from one 8 point heavy.
Carver or another beast will do it easy.

Calaban v. Arc Shield Stormwall
Hex Blast-Parasite arm 22 goes to arm 16
Wrastler goes in
2 pow 14's 10 damage total
5 pow 17s for 40 more
Stormwall is at 2 boxes

Where's the issue?

[alchahest]

There is someone on these forums that will tell you everything is competitive. Everything.

And there's fifty more who will say everything is non competetive.

[PG_Duckboy]

I have faith in my minion pacts/alliances to be able to endure the power of a colossal.

[katadder]

I literally don't understand the Minions can't handle Colossals.

Carver v. Arc Shield Stormwall
Feat
Warhog+Aggression Dial 2 p+s 18 1 p+s 17 total damage 18.5
3 fury remaining for 3 more attacks at 6.5 damage each equals 19.5
that's 38 from one 8 point heavy.
Carver or another beast will do it easy.

Calaban v. Arc Shield Stormwall
Hex Blast-Parasite arm 22 goes to arm 16
Wrastler goes in
2 pow 14's 10 damage total
5 pow 17s for 40 more
Stormwall is at 2 boxes

Where's the issue?

the issue is calaban is within 8" of stormwall and so probably dies next turn either to stormwall or something else nearby him.

[Rosebriar]

So he's not running Gatormen?

Weird

[Wishing]

I agree with dboeren that it is ultimately meaningless to discuss whether or not minions/gators are "competitive" (and whether this was promised by PP or not) since there is no fixed definition of what "competitive" means and it will be entirely a question of subjective opinion.

The term is clearly supposed to be synonymous with "good" on most levels, since saying "Calaban is not competitive" is the same as saying "Calaban sucks". By extension, saying "PP promised us that the minion packs would be competitive" is the same as saying "PP promised us that the minion packs would not suck". But how can they promise something that is an entirely subjective evaluation?

[hausdorff space]

And there's fifty more who will say everything is non competitive.

Which only makes that someones opinion more competitive.