Rhupert and Runewood questions.

[abysswalker711]

So I recently bought Runewood and finally assembled my Rhupert.

My main question is what do you bring them for? Is it the tough and stand up? I originally thought they would work well together because you can roll for tough from Rhupert then stand them up with Runewood.

It was mentioned in another thread that I might be overlapping a bit much with both models handing out pathfinder. But to be honest I was mainly planning on taking Rhupert for tough and Runewood for standing models up and the charge bonus. Am I looking at these models the wrong way?

[Nierak]

Nothing wrong with the pathfinder overlap as mostly piper will be doing tough.

Runewoods abilitys are pretty good and it also gives you 3pt solo with handcannon and charging weaponmaster. Useful for controlling flags or zones as well.

Still fairly new to cygnar but I've been running both to pretty good effect with stormblades.

[veragor1206]

EStryker and Connie like them both in their lists. Most other casters won't see much use for Runewood, but he is an excellent solo who can pack quite a punch on a charge.

[abysswalker711]

I bought him specifically for my eStryker list with SKs, so that is convenient .

When is it right to use the +1 def over tough from Rhupert?

[sleet01]

There was an analysis in one of the threads about when +1 DEF beats Tough. I want to say that anytime the +1 would push a 7-to-hit up to an 8, or 8-to-hit up to a 9, the difference in hit chances is significant enough to outweigh Tough, but don't quote me on that.

I generally don't take both Runewood and Carvolo in one list at 35 points just because I'm trying to wean myself off of the habit of taking too many support pieces, but which one I take generally depends on A) if I want to give Pathfinder to another solo or the 'caster, and B) if I foresee the need for auto-standing. Rhupert is my default support solo, but Runewood gets the nod from time to time even at 35 points. I have been taking both Runewood and Rhupert with my All-Cav pStryker list, though, because stacking Pathfinder, Tough, AS, and Invincibility on 5 Storm Lances is just brutal - yet I can have enough Pathfinder for the Lances *and* Laddermore if that's what I need. Pathfinder + Path to Victory are also very good, especially against high-DEF models behind some terrain.

I find that, whereas Rhupert has to play forward to support his unit, Runewood can generally play a bit further back. This makes it easier to keep him alive until the end game - distance, Sac Pawn['jack], and any defensive buffs make him pretty hardy - when a charging weaponmaster can make quite a bit of difference.

[Sanguinary Dan]

It's a question of when your opponent's MAT/RAT and POW are low enough to make that DEF/ARM hard to reach. Probably MAT or RAT of <5? So, basically? Almost never with our regular troops. But if you want to be certain no one can hit ATGM? Or if the other half of that power matters. Causing Terror can have major consequences.

On the other hand a Tough roll is a one in three chance of still having those troops next turn. So it's always a viable choice. Even against opponents with Anatomical Precision.

[abysswalker711]

Alright thanks guys. I have a better feel for the models now. One thing that kind of bugs me though if you take Rhupert without Runewood.. Tough without standing up. Not sure if it is just me but when I have a model succeed in a tough roll just to only advance the next turn while the rest of the unit runs or charges it feels like the model is dead anyway. Is that just me?

[sleet01]

We have some options there. eCaine can make a unit immune to KD with Heightened Reflexes; if you're not running Boomhowler & Co., you might as well put that on whatever Rhupert gives Tough to. Darius can stand up models within 2" of him using Crane. eStryker can give a 3" advance and melee attack with his feat, so you can either have mixed-ranged models stand and shoot, then advance 3" and swing, or have melee-only models stand and advance, then advance 3" and swing. Finally, Anastasia di Bray can be used to get almost a full activation out of models that stand and sacrifice their movement or action, although within some restrictions.

[abysswalker711]

Those are some good points. I unfortunately don't own Boomhowler & Co yet, so when I play eCaine I don't get much use out of that spell. I guess there are some ways around it. Thanks

[tankrandall]

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Cr...Effect%20Table

I wouldn't bring both unless it was a melee infantry spam list.

[abysswalker711]

Oh wow that chart is awesome thanks!

I was actually looking at infantry spam.. specifically eStryker with full SKs min SBs and I think the list had full SG. Don't remember exactly. Was thinking about it last night sort of. Didn't actually finish the list.

[drugfreeboy]

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Cr...Effect%20Table
the biggest to hit difference 1 point makes is like 20% tough is a 33% chance so tough always wins if all your worried about is living.

I don't think tough always wins, for instance...changing your opponent's to hit from from needing 10's to 11's would double the chance of them missing. I haven't done the math, but some point under the 10-11 mark it must balance out with the 33% tough gives. But then you get into wondering "well you can roll tough twice.." or "what about blast damage?" or "what about dodging debuffs?"... probably worth visiting the thread that actually talked about def vs tough rather than just writing it off :P


About bringing rupert and runewood in general...I bring them both in my eStryker list (he loves the melee infantry spam). It's super useful having two sources of pathfinder for my units. You can apply two buffs to one unit, or give pathfinder out to two separate units. If one or the other dies, you still have one. Runewood even works for stryker. The hand cannon has been useful for clearing charge lanes.

[tankrandall]

I don't think tough always wins, for instance...changing your opponent's to hit from from needing 10's to 11's would double the chance of them missing. I haven't done the math, but some point under the 10-11 mark it must balance out with the 33% tough gives. But then you get into wondering "well you can roll tough twice.." or "what about blast damage?" or "what about dodging debuffs?"... probably worth visiting the thread that actually talked about def vs tough rather than just writing it off :P

You are correct I was starving and didn't follow though the calculation. Either way they both have certain benefits. being KD sucks, blast damage, double or triple tough rolls.