Trying to Choose a Warmachine Faction

[jvaran]

I've been thinking about which Warmachine faction I'd like to try (currently I use Legion in Hordes). My son uses Cygnar, so my thought was that in the interest of maximizing bang for my buck, I'd pick a different faction than him, and eventually fill it out with some Mercs. If possible, I'd like to get Mercs that would, for the most part, also work for Cygnar so he could use them as well. And perhaps with the investment of a few caster models, I could also run a pure Merc army. So my questions are 1) does this sound workable? and 2) which Warmachine faction might be best suited for this? Currently, I'm leaning toward Cryx because I like the different look of the models and the background fluff (especially the dragon connection to Legion), but I'm open to considering others since neither of those are actual gameplay reasons.

[Scottl1]

If you played mercs you can share some models. lol That's give you about as much variety as can be asked.

Things about Cryx just an fyi isn't strong in ranged game UNLESS they use mercs! lol I like cryx though a lot so yea and after playing them I'm starting to slowly get a collection of their solos and ranged units like nyss hunters. :/

[SteakAndSpirits]

Like you, I Play Legion in Hordes. Playing Protectorate provides an excellent change in playstye, and is probably worth consideration. Also, there's some overlap between Protectorate and Cygnar mercenary choices. I don't have hard data points in front of me, but my gut says that Cryx probably has the least amount of overlap in Merc choices with Cygnar.

But liking the look of the models and the background fluff goes a long way towards personal enjoyment. If a difference in playstyle isn't paramount, Cryx certainly is an alternative. For their similarities in some respects, there's definitely a larger emphasis on infantry in Cryx than there is in Legion.

That said, give the Protectorate a glance. It's a really refreshing breath of fresh air.

-s&s

[Scottl1]

Like you, I Play Legion in Hordes. Playing Protectorate provides an excellent change in playstye, and is probably worth consideration. Also, there's some overlap between Protectorate and Cygnar mercenary choices. I don't have hard data points in front of me, but my gut says that Cryx probably has the least amount of overlap in Merc choices with Cygnar.

But liking the look of the models and the background fluff goes a long way towards personal enjoyment. If a difference in playstyle isn't paramount, Cryx certainly is an alternative. For their similarities in some respects, there's definitely a larger emphasis on infantry in Cryx than there is in Legion.

That said, give the Protectorate a glance. It's a really refreshing breath of fresh air.

-s&s

Boomhowlers, nyss hunters, gorman, corbeau, steelhead, pirates etc all work for both. They actually have quite a few that cross over. Eiryss, rhupert, and reinholdt are the big cygnar ones that won't work for cryx too.

[jvaran]

Like you, I Play Legion in Hordes. Playing Protectorate provides an excellent change in playstye, and is probably worth consideration. Also, there's some overlap between Protectorate and Cygnar mercenary choices. I don't have hard data points in front of me, but my gut says that Cryx probably has the least amount of overlap in Merc choices with Cygnar.

But liking the look of the models and the background fluff goes a long way towards personal enjoyment. If a difference in playstyle isn't paramount, Cryx certainly is an alternative. For their similarities in some respects, there's definitely a larger emphasis on infantry in Cryx than there is in Legion.

That said, give the Protectorate a glance. It's a really refreshing breath of fresh air.

-s&s

Actually, Menoth is the other one I'm considering, so that's definitely a possibility. I've never played Menoth, but I've played against them quite a bit. They're a pain to fight...

As for Mercs and Cryx, I have several friends that suggested that if I go that route, I should absolutely focus on Pirates.

[SteakAndSpirits]

Boomhowlers, nyss hunters, gorman, corbeau, steelhead, pirates etc all work for both. They actually have quite a few that cross over. Eiryss, rhupert, and reinholdt are the big cygnar ones that won't work for cryx too.

Right-o. Nyss Hunters would likely be missed, and Boomhowler isn't too shabby.

Actually, Menoth is the other one I'm considering, so that's definitely a possibility. I've never played Menoth, but I've played against them quite a bit. They're a pain to fight...

As for Mercs and Cryx, I have several friends that suggested that if I go that route, I should absolutely focus on Pirates.

I think they're worth the price of admission. I've definitely enjoyed burninating the heathens.

Why not proxy a few matches with them, and see how you like it?

-s&s

[Scottl1]

Actually, Menoth is the other one I'm considering, so that's definitely a possibility. I've never played Menoth, but I've played against them quite a bit. They're a pain to fight...

As for Mercs and Cryx, I have several friends that suggested that if I go that route, I should absolutely focus on Pirates.

They suggest pirates since it's been a recent boom in the tournaments with the synergy with pirates and denny.

+1 to menoth being a pain! lol

[jvaran]

They suggest pirates since it's been a recent boom in the tournaments with the synergy with pirates and denny.

Is there any place I can read more about this (I'm not really current on the tournament scene). I'm curious if this is more of a passing fad, or if this is a solid strategy.

[MagnustheJust]

Go Mercenaries man!!

You can double dip off the kid's Electric Chicken supplies and use the following in Highborne lists -

Blaize
Gallant
Gun Mages
Long Gunners
Precursor Knights

Not to mention about 50 other options from the Mercenary playbook!!


Not to mention, using Mags2 in a Bad Seeds theme force :
a Defender
Chargers
Sentinels
Sword Knights
Rangers

[scout's honor]

Is there any place I can read more about this (I'm not really current on the tournament scene). I'm curious if this is more of a passing fad, or if this is a solid strategy.

I'm sure you can find more info on the Cryx board, but it's definitely not just a passing fad IMO. You have very little need to bring the pirates into the faction with Cryx (as opposed to say, Khador) since Cryx tends to go for debuffing the opposing army more than buffing their own, which means there's no issue with the privateer solos that only buff privateer models so you really get the best of both for one; pirates are one of the very few possibilities Cryx has at the moment for a solid ranged element for another; finally, with Cull Soul it's always nice to have plenty of not too expensive models on the table.

That said, I'll endorse the Mercenary suggestion. Cygnar and Mercs go really well together, they even share a caster.

[jvaran]

Okay, I'm a little confused now. Originally I mentioned that friends had suggested I combine Merc Pirates with Cryx for a solid army. Someone above replied

They suggest pirates since it's been a recent boom in the tournaments with the synergy with pirates and denny.

Then I asked if this was a passing fad and got the reply:

I'm sure you can find more info on the Cryx board, but it's definitely not just a passing fad IMO. You have very little need to bring the pirates into the faction with Cryx...

which, to me, sounds like a recommendation to not use Merc Pirates with Cryx.

Did I miss something? :-/

[scout's honor]

Okay, I'm a little confused now. Originally I mentioned that friends had suggested I combine Merc Pirates with Cryx for a solid army. Someone above replied

Then I asked if this was a passing fad and got the reply:

which, to me, sounds like a recommendation to not use Merc Pirates with Cryx.

Did I miss something? :-/

Sorry, I made some assumptions there that I shouldn't have.

Pirates in general are good because they have a lot of support solos that make them great. Several of those only affect models in their faction though, and their factions is Mercs.

Some factions, Khador in particular, really want to bring merc units they use in their faction because of friendly faction only buffs and/or feats. This can be done via a ranking officer, but only for units. In that case the unit can benefit from the Khador buffs, but no longer from the buffs from the pirate solos.

Cryx has no such need to bring merc units in their faction, since they use debuffs - nothing friendly faction about it. So, pirates in Cryx benefit both from the Cryx debuffs and from the pirate solo buffs.

[moorg]

Eiryss, rhupert, and reinholdt are the big cygnar ones that won't work for cryx too.

No love for Forgeguard, Aiyana and Holt and the Devil Dogs?

Awww....

[Scottl1]

Um cryx has need of mercs if they want to make a good ranged list. Also there is mention of the cryx and pirates on museonminis and here. The thing is while yes denny pirates is a good list it does not share models with cygnar at all. lol

[Scottl1]

No love for Forgeguard, Aiyana and Holt and the Devil Dogs?

Awww....

lol why would cryx need forgeguard? lol They are neither ranged and would have to compete with banes, raiders, etc. lol

The devil dogs eh maybe because the jack marshal but as far as the fact that its a short range squad um no plenty that can do that.

The only thing I personally would like from a&h would be the magic weapons but idk if its worth the 4 pts.

[Scottl1]

double post

[SpiderBite]

to go Cryx and share Mercs with your son!

[scout's honor]

The thing is while yes denny pirates is a good list it does not share models with cygnar at all. lol

What's that? You've got Aiyana & Holt and Dirty Meg who work for Cygnar but not for Cryx, and you got Shae and the Commodore Cannon who don't work for either, but every other privateer model will work for Cygnar and Cryx both.

[Scottl1]

What's that? You've got Aiyana & Holt and Dirty Meg who work for Cygnar but not for Cryx, and you got Shae and the Commodore Cannon who don't work for either, but every other privateer model will work for Cygnar and Cryx both.

When was the last time you saw cygnar pirates? I have never seen bosun, hawk, or any pirates in a cygnar list. The main reason denny works well is due to debuffs so the pirates hit harder. If the pirates die they become mcthralls. Cygnar uses the mercs like rhein, rhupert, steel heads, boom howlers, etc which ar not pirates last time I looked. lol Sure you could make a pirate cygnar list but just cause you can doesnt mean you should. lol

[scout's honor]

Sure you could make a pirate cygnar list but just cause you can doesnt mean you should. lol

Keith apparently plays pirates in Cygnar all the time, to good effect - and he's a very good player according to public opinion. If you take a look, you'll find that Cygnar has much less faction-only buffs than Khador, and they can sure make good use of the pirates' abilities - in fact pirates are pretty good for scenario play, which is something Cygnar infantry tends to be less suited for. Don't knock it 'til you try it.

[Scottl1]

Keith apparently plays pirates in Cygnar all the time, to good effect - and he's a very good player according to public opinion. If you take a look, you'll find that Cygnar has much less faction-only buffs than Khador, and they can sure make good use of the pirates' abilities - in fact pirates are pretty good for scenario play, which is something Cygnar infantry tends to be less suited for. Don't knock it 'til you try it.

I wouldn't base any choice purely on keith, flanzer, jamie, or any other good player like that. lol That's like saying hey I saw blake griffin jump a car better try it myself. I would proxy first if you go the pirate route. Thatd be an expensive flop if you didnt end up liking them. lol

[scout's honor]

I wouldn't base any choice purely on keith, flanzer, jamie, or any other good player like that. lol That's like saying hey I saw blake griffin jump a car better try it myself. I would proxy first if you go the pirate route. Thatd be an expensive flop if you didnt end up liking them. lol

Come on, I can say the same thing about so many models out there. Keith doesn't play pirates because he's challenging himself. From what I hear on the podcasts, he clearly plays them because they're darn good and they do synergize well enough with a number of Cygnar models. Pirates in Cryx is relatively new, sometimes it takes a while for things to be discovered.

[Deo85]

Sense your question is to see which faction would use the same mercs as Cygnar I found the chart of who works with who on battle college for you: http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/mkiiMercTab

From a quick glance it looks like Menoth is the closest to having the same mercs as Cygnar.

[Scottl1]

Come on, I can say the same thing about so many models out there. Keith doesn't play pirates because he's challenging himself. From what I hear on the podcasts, he clearly plays them because they're darn good and they do synergize well enough with a number of Cygnar models. Pirates in Cryx is relatively new, sometimes it takes a while for things to be discovered.

They are solid at 50 pts. At 35 you are really lacking since they want to take so many solos plus ways to keep em safe. The punch is kinda meh if piece like hawk die. The durability goes if doc and bosun go. Plus Keith has been playing them purely at 50 so again kinda a rough list to get goin if you didnt like them and why I said proxy.

[scout's honor]

They are solid at 50 pts. At 35 you are really lacking since they want to take so many solos plus ways to keep em safe. The punch is kinda meh if piece like hawk die. The durability goes if doc and bosun go. Plus Keith has been playing them purely at 50 so again kinda a rough list to get goin if you didnt like them and why I said proxy.

The same still goes for many other models, including in-faction Cygnar models. You started with "The thing is while yes denny pirates is a good list it does not share models with cygnar at all. lol", then amended to "When was the last time you saw cygnar pirates? ... Sure you could make a pirate cygnar list but just cause you can doesnt mean you should. lol" and now it's just proxy-before-you-buy? I encourage new players to proxy anything and everything before shelling out money - that has no bearing whatsoever on whether models are good or not.

[Scottl1]

The same still goes for many other models, including in-faction Cygnar models. You started with "The thing is while yes denny pirates is a good list it does not share models with cygnar at all. lol", then amended to "When was the last time you saw cygnar pirates? ... Sure you could make a pirate cygnar list but just cause you can doesnt mean you should. lol" and now it's just proxy-before-you-buy? I encourage new players to proxy anything and everything before shelling out money - that has no bearing whatsoever on whether models are good or not.

So then whats your point? I think cygnar pirates suck but Im not gonna say dont use em. Idc who uses them well. I didn't say that pirates couldnt be in a cygnar list. I said they dont use them because they require you to build a list around them. Aside from badgering the point I don't see what you are actually contributing. You could have let it go and just ignored it. If you want to discuss this then fine do it via pm not hijack the thread to nitpick any statement made and not actually do anything but point out that I dont like cygnar pirates.

[scout's honor]

I didn't say that pirates couldnt be in a cygnar list.

The thing is while yes denny pirates is a good list it does not share models with cygnar at all.

I interpret that second quote of yours as "you can't take any models of a Denny pirates list in Cygnar". That's not correct. That's all I'm saying.

Actually, there's more I could be saying but you're right in that we shouldn't derail this thread at least.

[Scottl1]

Im putting you on ignore now since you can't seem to let this go and trying to get the last word. Yes cygnar can take them rule wise BUT I don't like them. Better? Is that clear enough for you? Nevermind don't answer that. lol You are on ignore.

[moorg]

lol why would cryx need forgeguard? lol They are neither ranged and would have to compete with banes, raiders, etc. lol

No dude... they're stuff you left off the Protectorate/Cygnar shared Mercs list that are worth owning if you've got both in the house.

And I didn't even mention Taryn. Everyone loves MORE GUN MAGES!

[Scottl1]

No dude... they're stuff you left off the Protectorate/Cygnar shared Mercs list that are worth owning if you've got both in the house.

And I didn't even mention Taryn. Everyone loves MORE GUN MAGES!

Hhmm if you say so. Also as to more gun mages never seen anyone but mercs or cygnar em so guess not everyone. lol

Also when you mentioned the no love it wasnt during a menoth cygnar post you said cryx and cygnar.

No love for Forgeguard, Aiyana and Holt and the Devil Dogs?

Awww....

Originally Posted by Scottl1
Eiryss, rhupert, and reinholdt are the big cygnar ones that won't work for cryx too.

[MagnustheJust]

Go Mercenaries...

It's the most fun you will ever have getting your butt kicked!!

[Mustakrakish]

Im a local player with OP and I was one of the ones suggestion Pirates. I poo poo on pure merc army because its just damned expensive to start up. Lots of metal, no battle box = lots of money and time. Cryx doesnt really need Steelheads, so Pirates was the other choice.

[MagnustheJust]

Im a local player with OP and I was one of the ones suggestion Pirates. I poo poo on pure merc army because its just damned expensive to start up. Lots of metal, no battle box = lots of money and time. Cryx doesnt really need Steelheads, so Pirates was the other choice.

COUNTER ARGUMENT :

As the Op stated, his son plays Cygnar. And as I stated, using the Highborne Covenant contract would allow the OP to use a substantial chunk of his son's army - provided the kid was not playing them!!

He would only need to grab a warcaster, two warjacks, and a solo or three. Not really that expensive for a start up - maybe $100.00 with pesky sales tax. And if he did go Highborne, those solos could also be used by the son...

It really is a logical choice.

And if even I can see that, what's your excuse???

[scout's honor]

And if even I can see that, what's your excuse???

The OP's trying to choose a Warmachine faction.

Mercs aren't really a faction, are they?

[ducks]

[Scottl1]

Too bad cryx couldn't use the renegades. lol

Pow 21 missiles on dennys feat turn! They'd replace the pistol wraiths! lol Plus being arcnodes AND pow 13 sustained attack? yes please. lol

[jvaran]

The OP's trying to choose a Warmachine faction.

Mercs aren't really a faction, are they?

[ducks]

Well, I used "faction" loosely...I'm willing to consider Mercs as my faction.

I'd just like to say you guys are doing a great job of convincing me to go with Cryx, Highborne Covenant, AND the Pirates.

[scout's honor]

I'd just like to say you guys are doing a great job of convincing me to go with Cryx, Highborne Covenant, AND the Pirates.

I see it's dawning on you that in the long run, no matter how many factions you have, it's never enough...

[Scottl1]

Well, I used "faction" loosely...I'm willing to consider Mercs as my faction.

I'd just like to say you guys are doing a great job of convincing me to go with Cryx, Highborne Covenant, AND the Pirates.

If you play mercs long enough you'll almost have a cygnar army AND the starts to any other faction. lol Kayazy can lead to khador, pirates can lead to menoth cygnar and cryx. skies the limit if you play long enough.

[jvaran]

I see it's dawning on you that in the long run, no matter how many factions you have, it's never enough...

Yeah, unfortunately finances (and wives!) don't always allow for that. In addition to this, my daughter plays Trollbloods and I'm doing something similar on that end. Planning on getting some Minions (gators) to work with both my Legion and her Trolls, and then maybe grab Barnabas to be able to field a Minion army as well. It's much simpler on that side though, because most of the gators tend to work with Legion and Trolls, so it's an easy fit.

[MagnustheJust]

If you play mercs long enough you'll almost have a cygnar army AND the starts to any other faction. lol Kayazy can lead to khador, pirates can lead to menoth cygnar and cryx. skies the limit if you play long enough.

I have been playing Mercenaries for over 7 years, and I do not play with electric chickens, thank you very much!!

I did put together a 50 point army for Big Red, but I am going to be getting rid of them soon - I don't play them all that much.


I do have the Kayazy Suite - max Assassins with UA & 3 Eliminator units - for use with my Four-Star Syndicate shenanigans...