Iron fang kovnik speculation

[quindraco]

DOOM Post: How quickly you lot are forgetting our OTHER Kovnik. You know which one I mean. Maybe the IF Kovnik will increase FA by 1 and be a jack marshal and a weapon master and be able to power attack: slam and that's all of his tricks.

[Seventhprophet]

I think a part of me always assumes that poorly designed models dont get purchased as much as well designed models and This cuases PP to do a "lessons learned" look at the models in question. Its probably an irrational hope considering there's hundreds of models to examine like this.

[Trihnicus]

I like our Other Kovnik in theory... the big doom surrounding him being his speed which wouldn't be an issue for an Iron Fang Model. What would you say if that MOW kovnik were speed 6?

[quindraco]

I like our Other Kovnik in theory... the big doom surrounding him being his speed which wouldn't be an issue for an Iron Fang Model. What would you say if that MOW kovnik were speed 6?

He could be speed 10 and I'd still say he did just about nothing to buff other MoW, which is what we're looking for.

[mostholycerebus]

Keep in mind Russia invested heavily in the bardiche, aka, axe on a long stick.

I think a part of me always assumes that poorly designed models dont get purchased as much as well designed models and This cuases PP to do a "lessons learned" look at the models in question. Its probably an irrational hope considering there's hundreds of models to examine like this.

Like MoW don't sell? They'll prolly make another lame Kovnik and then stick him in a new battlebox so he gets sales.

Compare bastions to MoW and ask for a khador paladin of the wall with a straight face.

[Havock]

DOOM Post: How quickly you lot are forgetting our OTHER Kovnik. You know which one I mean. Maybe the IF Kovnik will increase FA by 1 and be a jack marshal and a weapon master and be able to power attack: slam and that's all of his tricks.

+1 FA on my iron Fangs? Ohyeah!

Oh...Wait...

[Nebo]

Desperate Pace would be too much to hope for, but I'll hope for it anyway. I have fond memories of MKI IFP.

[Karl Eller]

DOOM Post: How quickly you lot are forgetting our OTHER Kovnik. You know which one I mean. Maybe the IF Kovnik will increase FA by 1 and be a jack marshal and a weapon master and be able to power attack: slam and that's all of his tricks.

If he does that with a Great Bear stat line for 2 points, I honestly wouldn't complain too much.

[quindraco]

If he does that with a Great Bear stat line for 2 points, I honestly wouldn't complain too much.

Oh, I'd take him every time as a prime source of slams, but he wouldn't buff the Fangs, is my point.

[OrsusSmash]

DOOM Post: How quickly you lot are forgetting our OTHER Kovnik. You know which one I mean. Maybe the IF Kovnik will increase FA by 1 and be a jack marshal and a weapon master and be able to power attack: slam and that's all of his tricks.

In fairness, the last time I used the Kovnik it killed half of a Storm Lance unit over many counter-charges.

What's going to be really funny is when the Iron Fang Kovnik has Reach, and the MoW Kovnik does not (despite it's axe probably being the size of the Iron Fang Kovnik.)

[PG_StarmanTTLB]

I would love:

Commander
CMD 9-10
Reach
Weaponmaster OR Backswing (we won't see both)
Elite Cadre [Iron Fang models]: Set Defense
Battle Plans
- Stand up all KD'd FF models in his CMD
- Grant Tough to a FF unit within his CMD range
- Grant +2 to MAT to a FF unit within his CMD range
3pts

Other more silly desires:

Elite Cadre [IFP]: Vengeance

or even moreso:

Battle Plan
- Target FF unit gains an additional damage die versus KD'd models. (would synergize beautifully with Crit KD!)

[DemonCalibre]

All I want is Battle Plans.
Overcome
Press Forward
Path to Glory.

For any Khadoran unit, that would be beast for Man'o'War and Fangs.

[x3tsniper]

Battle Plan
- Target FF unit gains an additional damage die versus KD'd models. (would synergize beautifully with Crit KD!)

Not a fan of more stuff relying on critical hits.

All I want is Battle Plans.
Overcome
Press Forward
Path to Glory.

For any Khadoran unit, that would be beast for Man'o'War and Fangs.

What is Path to Glory? I know of the others but not this one.

[sjustus]

[dougal- mini-feat gives all mercs ranged attacks while in his command +2 RNG for turn

[tehhelios]

I would love it if he got battle plans. Free stand ups would make all the tough we have access to way more desirable. Doom Reavers, Winterguard, anything under eIrusks CMD.
From the tyrant commander.
Overcome - pathfinder
Press Forward - +2" on advance
Reveille - KD in cmd stand up
This would be pretty sick.

I would want this too, maybe grant circular vision over press forward since i dont expect us to get it with all the other movement buffs(feats) we have.

[Karl Eller]

Am I pretty much the only person who kind of wants him to be more like an Exemplar Seneshal instead of like Joe or TyCo? Basically a solid 2-3 pt melee beatstick (think Great Bear) with a Tactics [Iron Fang Units] or [Iron Fang Pikemen] or two?

[rivenwyrm]

Am I pretty much the only person who kind of wants him to be more like an Exemplar Seneshal instead of like Joe or TyCo? Basically a solid 2-3 pt melee beatstick (think Great Bear) with a Tactics [Iron Fang Units] or [Iron Fang Pikemen] or two?

Yes, basically.

[x3tsniper]

Am I pretty much the only person who kind of wants him to be more like an Exemplar Seneshal instead of like Joe or TyCo? Basically a solid 2-3 pt melee beatstick (think Great Bear) with a Tactics [Iron Fang Units] or [Iron Fang Pikemen] or two?

The last thing we need is just a melee beat stick, but I really want some buff for something, and if it comes in the form of tactics then I won't mind.

[Marth]

He could be like the KE Seneshall in that he does not die... I wouldn't mind that at all.

[PG_Draxos]

Am I pretty much the only person who kind of wants him to be more like an Exemplar Seneshal instead of like Joe or TyCo? Basically a solid 2-3 pt melee beatstick (think Great Bear) with a Tactics [Iron Fang Units] or [Iron Fang Pikemen] or two?

I'd be fine with something like the Errant Seneshal but not the regular one.

[PG_StarmanTTLB]

Yea, I don't want more things in the 2-3pt "beatface" category. And making him killy like the Great Bears... may as well make it a UA for the Bears in that situation.

Give me movement and activation shenanigans! Grant (dare I say it) Vengeance! Give us Reville. Make it silly good!

[DemonCalibre]

Not a fan of more stuff relying on critical hits.
What is Path to Glory? I know of the others but not this one.

+2 to hit on charge attack rolls, and Fearless

Alain Runewood has it

[MathPasta]

Maybe hes a Jack marshal?

[PG_Draxos]

+2 to hit on charge attack rolls, and Fearless

Alain Runewood has it

That would be retardedly good on IFP. I want it now.

[quindraco]

That would be retardedly good on IFP. I want it now.

The fearless would be very close to worthless on stock IFP (improving them from failing 1/144 of the time to never) and completely worthless on BDIFP. I would much rather see something like HoF on charge attack rolls - has about the same effect on accuracy, but improves crit chances (which is what I'm buying when I sell off the fearless).

[<Archangel>]

The fearless would be very close to worthless on stock IFP (improving them from failing 1/144 of the time to never) and completely worthless on BDIFP. I would much rather see something like HoF on charge attack rolls - has about the same effect on accuracy, but improves crit chances (which is what I'm buying when I sell off the fearless).

Ooh HoF stacked with SnP would be sweet.

[<Archangel>]

Double post

[Shyndaar]

if he's character, he'll be good, and similar to Joe.

If he isnt, he'll be awful. A bunch of useless things. He'd probably grant the pikemen Snipe or something.

Set defense would be nice. So would a def/mat/speed buff (one of those at a time).

[PG_StarmanTTLB]

if he's character, he'll be good, and similar to Joe.

If he isnt, he'll be awful. A bunch of useless things. He'd probably grant the pikemen Snipe or something.

Tyrant Commander, Fell Caller, Warwitch Siren, Koldun Lord, Arcanist, Vassal, etc. All do awesome things (other than just killing stuff), and all are non-character and in the 1-3pt window.

[Fuchikoma]

He'd probably grant the pikemen Snipe or something.

HA!!! This man is truly an insider!!!

[tehhelios]

Really want him to make people stand people up and give pathfinder. would make my doomies happy!

[rivenwyrm]

As he's an Iron Fang Kovnik, he may only be able to effect Iron Fang units. But I would salivate for Reveille. I would be quite surprised by any sort of MAT buff, but it would also make me tremendously happy, and seriously improve the performance of that aspect of our faction. They were hinting that we might see more axe-wielding IFP units at the L&L preview, so we can probably look forward to that. Perhaps the Great Bears had a moment between momentous battles to train their peers.

[Tico Love]

From reading the ideas on this thread I was thinking that powerful charge and set defense would be ideal advantages for the Kovnik to give the Iron Fang Pikemen. But when Rivenwyrm stated that he would be surprised by a MAT buff it made me realize how unlikely that is. I can't help but wonder how much Privateer Press takes into account the Mercenaries that are available to a Faction when they create new units and rules for that faction. With a powerful charge and set defense the IFP would eliminate any reason to field Steelhead Halberdiers in Khador. Do you guys think that we are unlikely to see these kinds of advantages on the IFP for this reason?

On an unrelated note, I've noticed that people are locked onto this idea that there will be an Iron Fang Unit with axes. In the video that I saw the quote is "Iron Fangs are not limited to pikes". Do you guys think that there is still a possibity that we will see Iron Fangs with ranged weapons like Longbows or Crossbows? I just can't get excited over yet ANOTHER unit of melee oriented Iron Fangs. I was hoping for more diversity.

Oh, and Starman; the idea of IFP with vengeance is giving me an erection as I type this.

[Shyndaar]

Tyrant Commander, Fell Caller, Warwitch Siren, Koldun Lord, Arcanist, Vassal, etc. All do awesome things (other than just killing stuff), and all are non-character and in the 1-3pt window.

True enough. But in this given instance itll be one or the other, imo.

[Octavius_Maximus]

A list of things which it would be cool to have:

- Possible rules for the Kovnik.
- Granted: Set Defence
- Brutal Charge
> Granted: Brutal Charge
- Vengeance
> Granted: Vengeance
- Tactics:
> Reveille- (Stand Up)
> War Cry (+2 to attack rolls)
- Unyeilding (+2 to Arm when engaging)
> Granted: Unyeilding
- Granted: Trash (Extra Die against Knocked Down targets)


I would love Vengeance, Unyeilding or Trash if i could choose. They would make IFP beyond amazing.

[Revamp]

I'd happily pay 4 for him if he had 5 wounds, tough, and had something like... "Master at Arms: Iron fang Units in this models command area gain beat back when charging a warrior model in this models command area." Just that alone would be amazing for positioning and would be something the likes of which we really don't have.

[ScottEBJJ]

I'd happily pay 4 for him if he had 5 wounds, tough, and had something like... "Master at Arms: Iron fang Units in this models command area gain beat back when charging a warrior model in this models command area." Just that alone would be amazing for positioning and would be something the likes of which we really don't have.

You would not pay 4 points for that ability. A short range super situational ability that is not synergistic for the units it benefits, on a 5 would frame. No way in hell would that model see play time.

[ScottEBJJ]

A list of things which it would be cool to have:

- Possible rules for the Kovnik.
- Granted: Set Defence
- Brutal Charge
> Granted: Brutal Charge
- Vengeance
> Granted: Vengeance
- Tactics:
> Reveille- (Stand Up)
> War Cry (+2 to attack rolls)
- Unyeilding (+2 to Arm when engaging)
> Granted: Unyeilding
- Granted: Trash (Extra Die against Knocked Down targets)


I would love Vengeance, Unyeilding or Trash if i could choose. They would make IFP beyond amazing.

Unyielding would be a but meh, even at ARM 20 they'd die to most charges since they are single wound. Now Defensive Line would be nice since it works against shooting.

As far as vanilla rules go I'd love Set Defense and Brutal Charge. I hope for a unique rule though.

[Revamp]

You would not pay 4 points for that ability. A short range super situational ability that is not synergistic for the units it benefits, on a 5 would frame. No way in hell would that model see play time.

You say that, but it would make them superb at dealing with shield walls, staggered tar pits,, and it'd make charge lanes appear through the tar pits. For example, if the enemy were skorne and you were charging a unit of capharact Cetrati in shield wall, you could not only push them out of shield wall but if the guy was stupid enough to leave them all in a straight line you could push a few back and bull doze through. Plus, its not a character so you wouldn't be limited to just one, it'd probably be FA:2 so you could over lap the command areas. If the Command was a measly 8 that'd still be a 32 inch coverage area where you could beat back your opponent, however Iron fangs range to the high side of command ranges. He'd probably get as high as 10, since the Pikemen Officer has a 10 and the regulars don't go below 9. So thats instead an 18 to 20 inch coverage on one of them, 36 to 40 inch on 2. That's damn wide.

As for the 4 points, maybe bring it to 3 then. It'd still be more useful than the MOW Kovnik at 3. As for it not being synergistic, it wouldn't be for just the pikemen. It says "Iron Fang Unit" so that'd mean it would work with any future types of Iron fang they release. It'd work for the Uhlans, Pikemen, BDPIkemen, and Great Bears, because even they say "Iron Fang Character Unit". And since it works on all of them, rather than just the one type, it'd have lots of different ways of using it.

Maybe its just me, but i'd pay for that.

[Havock]

Beat back on the bears?

Yeah....