BoV, camping focus, Reinforcements and going toe to toe with Khador

[DaNDeMeNTo]

Hey everybody,

I'm still relatively new to the game and during my first months of WM/H a few questions have come up that I wanted your guys' opinions on:

1) How do you effectively use the Blessing of Vengeance? I've fielded the BoV a couple of times but it never felt it was worth the steep cost of 7pts. A few times I channeled a potentially juicy A2A through it but rolled really low on the additional hits (there's no way around that, right? Spending 4 focus in order to wipe out 2-3 troopers is frustrating...). Leaving that aside, how do you actually play it on the battlefield? Far away from Sevy in order to maximize the area to potentially cover with A2A / Immolation? Close to the opposing caster in order to pose a constant threat to them? Hunting juicy solos / units? Do you run it a lot of times (flanking maneuver?) to get into a better position but then leave it hanging to some degree?
This is the list (25 pts) I use currently:

pSevy
- BoV
- Reckoner
- Redeemer

full TFG
min Choir
Vassal

2) After learning the hard way not to become to cocky with my caster I've gotten a lot better in protecting them from assassinations by being extremely conscious of where to move them. One thing that has eluded me so far, however, is the concept of camping focus if there is a potential threat looming for my caster. It always feels like I need every single focus to fuel jacks / cast spells come crunch time... How do you effectively camp focus, ie how much do you camp on average? Do you only camp focus if there is a definite threat for them or do you prepare for surprises anyhow later on in the game? In short: when do you camp and how much? I'm looking for rules of thumb here...

3) What are - generally speaking - viable reinforcements for the Protectorate? I'm thinking Daughters or Vilmon and buddies... Am I completely off-track? Any other suggestions for current SR2012 play?

4) What are the top-tier / most frequently used Khador casters in SR2012 play to date? I'm gonna face a lot of Khador soon, so a heads up would be appreciated, if possible with a few suggestions on how to deal with the most annoying stuff from them.

Thanks!

[Charming]

I usually run BoV as something to lob immolations, A2A and vision through. He gets to hang out midfield and potentially charge in with his halberd if I desperately need it (MAT 11 on the charge with battle up!). Sure those rolls of 1 or 2 on ashes are frustrating but it's sweet when you get lucky and I'm somewhat of a gambling man! For more secure infantry clearing using a Vanquisher is better.

Sevvy loves using A LOT of focus, I usually hand a bunch out and throw a spell or two. I hardly ever play him without wracks and hierophant, you might want to consider a Reclaimer as well to help with fueling the jacks. He should really play far enough back for him to not need to camp focus. I generally thnk of it as "if they reach me I'm dead no matter if I camp these two focus". The thing about Severius is that you tend to get fooled by his feat. You hardly ever want to move up in order to feat on someone as that usually means Severius is too close and dies. If someone comes running towards you or you get to catch something like battle mages, Druids etc it might be worth it though.

At 35 I like having daughters and Rhupert if those fellers aren't already in my list/s. Vilmon and buddies is pretty nice as well, or Nicia. The problem with named models is that they can only be in that reinforcement so some people think you should get them in you regular list. At 25 points a unit of knights exemplar might wreck face.

[The Buoyancy of Water]

Can't really comment on the first three questions, but as a Khador player I'll have a stab at number four

General consensus is that our Iron Flesh casters are at the top of the pile for competitiveness. That would be: pIrusk, eSorscha, pButcher and Old Witch (don't think I've missed any...). I particular, pIrusk and Old Witch most likely. However, I don't agree with this need for Iron Flesh and with the meta-shift being started by Wrath and further pushed by Colossals I think this idea of the top casters will change. But generally, expect to see at least one of those lot in a multi list format.

After that, all the Vlads are strong, and eButcher is often taken to force bad match ups (Harkevich can do the same thing, but isn't as popular). I think eIrusk will start showing up more often too.

The rest are all more corner-case, but all strong in the right hands. There are endless arguments about certain casters on the Khador forums, normally Zerkova and Strakov, but none of them are bad.

So basically, expect Iron Flesh casters for now, but that will most likely change as the remainder of Wrath and Colossals hits the tables...

Cheers,
Dave

[Gavriel]

I always keep BoV mid field, usually behind and just to one side of my tarpit unit, then I move into arcing range when a good target presents itself. Keep enliven on him as much as possible, and people will have a very hard time pinning him down (If someone runs some infantry around him to stop enliven, after the first attack hits, repel the model and it may become possible to move into the model that just attacked and deny attacks on the other side of him) The plus 2 damage for pow 13 ashes to ashes under EoM is definitely worth the extra point.

Sevvy really wants both a heirophant and a set of wracks when he runs BoV, you really do need 10+ focus to do everything he's going to want to do in a turn. I'd recommend dropping the redeemer from your list and throwing in those two and maybe a KE senneschal for some heavy hitting.

On the reinforcements front, PoM actually has some trouble at the 35 point level. Vilmon and friends are nice if you don't plan on using Vilmon in any of your other lists at a tourney (character restrictions and all that). I like a pair of KE Seneschals and a mechanik, or a pair of aleigants and a sunburster if you want to get really fancy.

At 50 points our reinforcement options really open up. 2 repenters and a min choir is an excellent reinforcement choice as repenters don't really need focus to be extremely effective. I also like Gravus and a unit of Knights exemplar (again if I haven't already put gravus in one of my lists.) You could even do a full unit of Zealots with the UA and a reclaimer, as having them pop in halfway up the board on turn two, then run and use Greater Destiny can really muck up your opponents day.

[Rinion]

On the subject of reinforcements at 35pts, i've had a a fair ammount of success with a min unit of Vengers! They have decent hitting power and threat range. I've never actually used reinforcements at 50. Unless its a tournament in which people are forced to, nobody uses the reinforcement rules when playing casual games. Those scenarios either get rerolled or they just dont use the extra points.

I actually need to use pSev and BoV a lot more, but he usually goes up a flank or around some other jacks. With Vision and his shield, he's pretty suriveable. A2A is of course always a gamble, but those games where you roll a 6 and kill 7 people from a WG Death Star are wonderful and usually worth past bad-rolling =p

[DaNDeMeNTo]

Thanks for the input so far.

I'll try to run BoV midfield then, behind and to one side of my tarpit (TFG). If the opportunity presents itself, I'll run it into arching position, put Vision and potentially enliven on it and hope It'll hang on. As to the focus strain on Sevy, I'll try to include a reclaimer (I just recently bought one, actually), possibly (at the 25pt level) at the expense of the vassal.

I'll give Vilmon and co. a shot as reinforcements, as they are not included in any other list so far.

I should add that the abovementioned pSevy list is just one of my lists, and that I was looking on general advice on the focus camping issue (which nobody has really commented on yet). My other casters as of yet are eFeora and pKreoss, and Harby will join the flock at some point this month.

[Wulfy]

There are a few subtleties with using BoV you need to get down. Then you will NEVER field Sevvy without him. First off your AtoA are boostable attacks. So, you pick targets where the arc can do some damage, kill solos, arc to a caster, support, etc. Also great for clearing charge lanes for a Senny or some other model. Then you boost the damage to insure you get the kill. This makes BoV a BIG threat to your opponent. It is this threat that brings the second subtlety. Opponents go after him. first he is really tough to kill, so it takes a ton of effort. This sucking of assets and focus drains him and makes BoV worth his points. In my meta, and in most tournaments I have played, opponents hate nodes. They go after him with a vengence. You can use this by drawing fire and predicting where your enemy will go, trap eyriss, or some other distrupter, etc. Next subtlety. His shield. Any model that hits him gets knocked back out of melee, unless they have reach. When you place him, keep that in mind. It is easy to forget at first. Opponents only get one hit. I find enliven unnecessary most of the time, I put it on my heavy. Defensive strike is not as great as it used to be, but can still take out troops easy and does a little damage to jacks. If you place him to block a charge lane and someone tries to run past, you get one strike for defensive strike and one for opportunity. Great for keeping in the middle and stopping models from penetration.

Subtlety is keeping him in range to charge or move forward and allow you to get that AtoA in the right spot or cast vision in front of your daughters or KEs.

I find if I take BoV, I do not take another light. If you get to end game and have BoV against a heavy, you lose. Sevvy, is great for taking out infantry, end game with just infantry on the opponents side is a win for you. You need to concentrate on taking out his Heavies first, Sevvy does not do that well alone. Once you get his heavies gone, you can clean up with BoV and Sevvy.

[Craaag]

BOV has become an auto include for me with pSevvy. I almost always take 2 heavies except with pSevvy and that's because 1 is replaced by BOV and I find a Redeemer to be so valuable when combined with choir and EOM. You have to protect BOV just like all our other jacks too. It's strange but we need a meat shield in this game for our heavy armour pieces, seems kind of a$$ backwards but true for us. BOV needs to have that, hanging out just beyond them or off to the flank of them a bit out of range of any charges from reach opponents.

The +2 to damage is so important on A2A or even an Immolation attack that I could never justify not bringing BOV and just simply using a Revenger to save 1 point. Sometimes you will roll poorly on the A2A but sometimes you'll roll good too. At least with the +2 extra damage you are almost guaranteeing that those targets will get removed from the spell too. You can always elect not to use the +2 to damage before rolling for the damage, so if you only roll 1 extra target and they were not the most optimal targets (and you have Wracks and heirophant) you can always elect to cast again. This was a recent Infernal ruling.

As far as Camping goes I find it rather difficult to camp with pSevvy, he has so much he can do that it feels like you've got a hand tied behind your back in a boxing match. I find it much easier with a caster like pFeora. Alot of it does matter on knowing your opponent and how they can threaten you. If you see those potential threats before they happen then you will know to restrain your spell slinging and play it safe.

[vvp]

you can decide to activate the +2 damage after you roll the number of targets you hit with A2A.

[koreandog]

1) BoV is a great light jack. I have rarely used his bushwhack ability, bu the +2 dmg is amazing. When I run pSevvy, I tend to use both BoV and another revenger to gain a better board position for arcing spells. As for targets that I would use BoV for, it depends on the situation. Annoying solos, such as Lord of the Feast, I tend to arc a spell if I'm in range. For infantry clearing, I'll most definitely would arc A2A with BoV.
(For eSevvy though, I feel the BoV is not as strong with him, since he lacks A2A.)
pSevvy's strength relies on using his army to win the game with some support from his spells. eSevvy's strength (for me) seems to use his jacks for winning.

2) I usually camp focus and cast DW on pSevvy if there are threats near me. But most of the time, I will blow thru his focus.

3) I think Nicia, Vengers, and Daughters are prime choices, due to their speed. Personally, I like KE and Delivers b/c they are not the one's people expect as much, but are much more difficult to get up the field from their position.

4) (inb4 Great Bears, eVlad, Beast 09) EVlad seems really nasty, especially on feat turn. However, I find that pIrusk with Inhospitable Ground as the most annoying caster, due to our lack of pathfinder on our jacks and many of our units(which are really slow). Vinny curbs this though...

[fishfleas]

I actually use bushwack quite a bit. It basically just allows you to get an attack off in cases wehre you wouldn't normally. For example Ihave him up field, but they engaged me so that i can't use my arc node. I use bushwack ability if I can't kill the engaged model to still allow me to get an attack off and then move into a position to arc more spells. this has occassionally won me games.

[FearMeMortals]

Power 15 immolates are pretty strong. A second ranged attack to go with your Reckoner can be pretty useful. Yes it's fire damage, but so its the Reckoner's gun.