:Gunfighter: buying attacks after combat.

[FiddyBucks]

I was reading about the Gatecrasher eCain Assassination thread.

Basically, Example 1: eCaine charges a model (friendly or enemy) attacks that model with his charge attack, then casts Gatecrasher, and buys ranged attacks at the enemy Warnoun (0.6" -12" away)

or

Example 2: eCaine charges a model (friendly or enemy) then casts Gatecrasher (after charge move, before charge attack) engaging the Warnoun, uses charge attack and buys ranged attacks at the enemy Warnoun (0.5" away)


I believe example 1 breaks the rules.
I believe example 2 is within the rules.

Quoting from prime:

GUNFIGHTER :gunfighter:
A model with the Gunfighter advantage has a melee range of 0.5 ˝ and can make ranged attacks targeting models in its melee range. ...

Remember that Gunfighter does not allow this model to make melee and ranged attacks during the same activation.


CHARGE

A charging model that ends its charge movement with its charge target in its melee range has made a successful
charge. It must use its action to make a combat action, choosing to make either initial melee attacks or (if it can
make a special attack with a melee weapon) a melee special attack.

After making a charge attack during its activation, the charging model completes its combat action normally. If the charging model cannot make its first melee attack against the charge target, the charging model can make its first melee attack against another eligible target, but this is not a charge attack. It does not lose its first attack.

Focus: Additional Attack
This model can spend focus to make additional melee or ranged attacks as part of its combat action (see "Combat
Actions," p. 28). It can make one additional attack for each focus point spent.

Combat Actions
Unless noted otherwise, a model cannot make both melee and ranged attacks in the same combat action. A model can make additional attacks after a special attack or power attack.

[Starweaver]

As far as i can see example 1 is legal (though keep in mind your making a gunfighter attack so dont actually get the charge die on damage iirc).
Example 2 is somewhat legal. you charge, then gatecrash to your next target. Your charge target was in range when you ended your charge movement so its a successfull charge, but when making the first attacks its not in range so you get to pick a new target. It will however not be a charge attack against the new target (so no extra die, not that you'd get it on a ranged attack anyway).

[Crate123]

1 is definately illegal, gatecrasher says you can only make gunfighter attacks.
2 is legal.

Remember eCaine has no melee weapons so his charge is by default a Gunfighter charge.

[FiddyBucks]

Gun fighter never gets an extra die on charges anyways, after reading it I think I see how example 1 is legal. Because you are only making ranged attacks you can buy ranged attacks, gunfighter and regular ranged attacks.

[Crate123]

Gun fighter never gets an extra die on charges anyways, after reading it I think I see how example 1 is legal. Because you are only making ranged attacks you can buy ranged attacks, gunfighter and regular ranged attacks.

Except Gatecrasher says you can only make Gunfighter attacks for the rest of the activation

[Mod_Redphantasm]

Gun fighter never gets an extra die on charges anyways, after reading it I think I see how example 1 is legal. Because you are only making ranged attacks you can buy ranged attacks, gunfighter and regular ranged attacks.

After casting gate crasher you may only make gunfighter attacks. Gunfighter attacks are defined by the gunfighter rule as ranged attacks against models with 0.5". You cannot make ranged attacks beyond this range after casting gatecrasher.

[Starweaver]

Ah crack, target is out of melee range, i missed that part. yeah, 1 is illegal.

[Hug a Gorax]

If a charge must be followed by mêlée initial attacks or a special mêlée attack and your only weapon is a gunfighter one (ranged attacks in mêlée range, not mêlée attacks), surely you won't get a charge attack either way?

[SageofLodoss]

If a charge must be followed by mêlée initial attacks or a special mêlée attack and your only weapon is a gunfighter one (ranged attacks in mêlée range, not mêlée attacks), surely you won't get a charge attack either way?

Gunfighter advantage has a specific rule for 'gunfighter charges' which are not "charge attacks," but let you perform a charge movement with the +3 inches and make a gunfighter attack against your target afterward. But since its not a "charge attack" it is neither melee or auto-boosted.

[Hug a Gorax]

Exactly, it's an initial attack not a charge attack. The original post was confusingly referencing charge attacks.

[FiddyBucks]

Thanks for the replies. I don't have eCain's card on me so I didn't know the exact wording. Good to know example one is illegal as it is a huge threat range lol.

[sleet01]

Fiddy, I think you misunderstood the tactic you're trying to describe in #1. Nobody ever suggests doing #1 as you wrote it because it's illegal. What they suggest is:

1) eCaine charges a friendly model in the back for +3" move. His total threat range is 7" + 3" + 12" = 22".
2) eCaine makes a Gunfighter ranged attack against the friendly model in lieu of an actual Charge attack, because he has no melee weapons and Gunfighter lets him do that.
3) eCaine takes his other initial and bought attacks at an enemy model within 0.6" ~ 12" of his current position, possibly in conjunction with his feat. This is legal because A) he is not considered to be in melee with the friendly model, and B) he has not made any melee attacks this activation, only a ranged one in lieu of his Charge attack.
4) eCaine casts Gate Crasher to GTFO, possibly also taking the opportunity to take out another enemy model by getting within 0.5" of it with Gate Crasher and making the mandated attacks only within his 0.5" melee range.

I've seen this one discussed recently a couple of times; perhaps is that what you were thinking of?

[PG_Mr. Golden Deal]

Fiddy, I think you misunderstood the tactic you're trying to describe in #1. Nobody ever suggests doing #1 as you wrote it because it's illegal. What they suggest is:

1) eCaine charges a friendly model in the back for +3" move. His total threat range is 7" + 3" + 12" = 22".
2) eCaine makes a Gunfighter ranged attack against the friendly model in lieu of an actual Charge attack, because he has no melee weapons and Gunfighter lets him do that.
3) eCaine takes his other initial and bought attacks at an enemy model within 0.6" ~ 12" of his current position, possibly in conjunction with his feat. This is legal because A) he is not considered to be in melee with the friendly model, and B) he has not made any melee attacks this activation, only a ranged one in lieu of his Charge attack.
4) eCaine casts Gate Crasher to GTFO, possibly also taking the opportunity to take out another enemy model by getting within 0.5" of it with Gate Crasher and making the mandated attacks only within his 0.5" melee range.

I've seen this one discussed recently a couple of times; perhaps is that what you were thinking of?

The other way that this works is:

1) Caine2 charges friendly model, for extra 3" of threat (7" + 3" = 10")
2) Caine2 casts Gatecrasher after movement, but before making attacks, placing him in melee range with the enemy warnoun (if enemy models were screening, for example)
3) Caine2 then makes his initial attacks, and then may purchase additional Gunfighter attacks.

[Valander]

Getting a bit too far into tactical discussion for the rules forum, now. Questions seem answered; if you have unanswered questions related, please feel free to ask in a new thread.