How do we deal with Retribution - Rahn + Mage Hunter Strike force?

[sazzlefrats]

I was playing 50pts last night.

I discovered the hard way that 10 mage hunter strike force + UA + Rahn's feat = boosted attacks was a very dead pKreoss before I could take my 2nd turn. They have phantom seeker, so no hiding behind models, they ignore my camped focus, and ignore my defenders ward on me. And with Kill box I can't hang back either.

My list was, not optimized, but not too bad. I know adding Roven is a requirement, but even still, there is no way to touch those magehunters if I get first turn. What do you do?

pKreoss

Errants min

pEiryrss

Max Delivers

Max Zealots w/ UA

Redeemer

Reckoner

Vessel of Judgement

2 x Vassal of Menoth

1 x Vassal Mechanic

1 x Wrack

Piper of Ord

Covenant

[Demeritus]

Ok I was confused at first, because it is Ravyn who gives the strike force boosted ranged attack rolls, not Rahn, he gives boosted attack and damage on spells.

You honestly have a lot of the tools to deal with them in that list, Redeemer deviations will kill them with ease needing only 4's (assuming choir infuses), also if you use Rhoven, you can have him give the stealth ignoring to the Vessel of Judgement and have it shoot at them and also wipe them out pretty well.

I think the main thing is you got caught off guard and some casters do have more trouble than others defending vs them. They are borderline death incarnate to any arm 14-16 casters (defense and dice depending). Another way to help protect yourself is to use elevation which they do not ignore and will mean that on average only half of them will hit Kreoss.

[PG_KestrelM1]

They don't ignore Stealth, so Thyra is a solid counter to their assassination run. Vindictus can pass off enough hits to Zealots to be completely Immune (with Greater Destiny) or simply very safe (with 3 or 4 Zealots within 3"). Harbinger can play back far enough to not be threatened, and her feat can keep them safely at bay. Both versions of Feora have natural stats high enough that they'll live most times, but they'll still drop to above average dice.

Playing pKreoss in a killbox is rough, for sure. I'd say just keep in mind that they have a 21" threat and stay as close to the edge of the kill box as you can. Honestly with as many Deliverer, Zealot, and Redeemer shots as your list is packing I can't see you having a huge problem taking them out if you really focus on them - they have crappy armor so any blast is a threat to them. Just make sure you hammer them and only them until either Ravyn pops her feat (after which their RAT6 isn't nearly as threatening) or you reduce them to 3 or fewer models. Tying them up in melee is a great way to shut them down as well.

Hope that helps!

[hausdorff space]

... there is no way to touch those magehunters if I get first turn. What do you do?

More importantly, what did you do?

[Raynzy]

Menoth has tons of AOES at there disposal, killing MHSF is a dream

[sazzlefrats]

More importantly, what did you do?

I had no elevation. I ran my deliverers to the left, ran my zealots up the center with the piper making them tough, and had defenders ward placed on them. I accidently crowded my jacks with the solos and infantry spam so I couldn't advance them up the center as quick as I wanted to. Since nothing in my army could tie them up, I knew I was going to lose a unit to the mage hunters. My errants went up the right side. My redeemer took an ancilliary shot, which scattered wildly and to no effect. Pkreoss measured out to 10 inches from my board edge and did nothing else.


His turn 1, those MHSF killed 7 of 10 deliverers. He did take a shot at my zealots, but, after killing one only to watch it make its tough roll, and then not even be knocked down thanks to my covenant he gave up on them. He advanced the rest of his army, now I was threatened with 2 x MHA and a solo on horseback, and his epic eiryss started plinking away at my errants, also, his archers with the special 3 types of arrows, plinked a couple errants away. And I lost a zealot for real. A character jack of his protected the MHSF with the no one takes blast damage in 3”. So now all of my templates were going to be useless against them.


My turn 2, I didn't run my zealots into combat only a few would have made it anyhow, he was sniping his MHSF, so they were shooting at max range or close to it. I got a few lucky scatters to kill a few MHSF, I think I killed 1 of them. My errants got close enough to put the beat down on both eiryss, and my redeemer thought better of the MHSF and killed the horse solo. My reckoner missed his jack that was doing the 3” no blast damage, but my vessel shot that jack and killed 1 MHSF, big returns eh? Lol. Kreoss ran to the right, hugging the 10” kill box limit.


His turn 2, the MHSF, nearly killed kreoss, I was down to 4hp., I lost another errant, I lost my vessel of judgement, and I lost another zealot. Really not a huge loss considering I should have had my caster assassinated.


My turn 3, I popped my feat, pushed everyone forward, killed nearly his entire army.
His turn 3... I was assassinated, though I was nearly not killed he had one shot, and it was an easy shot, just I if I had more left I could have screened my caster, he had nothing left with phanton seeker bolt. In the end he had 6 nyss archers, 1 other model from another kind of archer unit, the warjack and his caster. I had most of my army left.


Rough game, I felt like I was losing the entire time, even when I popped my feat and toasted his army. I knew I was going to leave his warcaster in a reasonable spot to attempt a shot at mine.

[jandrese]

The only thing I would have considered is putting Tough and Fearless on the Deliverers. The Zealots get +4 ARM after one of them dies, which might save them from a couple of blasts, but the Deliverers have nothing. If they're hit (and they have crap DEF), they will die. Plus, CMD 7 is terrible and it's very easy for them to break. Tough could help a lot, and he clearly feared the Deliverers because he put so many shots into them.

Beyond that, on turn 1 I might have popped the Zealot minifeat and had them run. On turn 2, they can run again to engage the MHSF or at least keep them from getting too cheeky. Zealots will kill the MHSF dead if they get to throw their bombs, so you can basically for them to deal with the threat right in front instead of going after your caster, especially if you keep a 16" or so range between Kreoss and the Zealots. Once the Zealots have +4 ARM, you don't have to worry about Deliverer blasts killing them, especially if you put Defenders Ward on them. The MHSF hates anything that can get up in their face quickly. Don't forget that if a Zealot dies, in range of the Vessel, you can have it walk over and chuck a bomb at nearly point blank range against the MHSF as well.

[Crimzzen]

eFeora. Light your 11 zealots on fire while under greater-destiny (vanquisher, castigator, bonded redeemer, your choice). Feat and pass 11 minimum auto fire to the MHSF. She's got a decent enough statline that if you camp a few you'll probably be ok, assuming you can get all the MHSF with the feat and maybe their caster.

vanquisher + Vassal is tossing out 2 4" a turn for zero focus. He should be able to kill them between blast dmg and auto-fire.

[shady]

Menoth has tons of AOES at there disposal, killing MHSF is a dream

your right menoth has a ton of aoe's its more like a fart kill the mage hunters their squishy enough from any blast if it hits of course cheers

[Jay563]

I always include daughters to help bring a lvl of annoyance, def ward on them and a +1 def from the piper and just run them into they're faces, arcane assasin does ignore the def ward but they're so lame in melee it doesn't much matter, the def ward helps other units from removing them easily and then allowing the mage hunters free rain. tie them up and then move up the rest of your forces to deal with them.

[Gaston]

Not as lame in melee as you'd think, with CMA. But if they're doing that they're not shooting, which is a blessing in and of itself.

[FearMeMortals]

I would play either Feora against this list. 15/17 will give the MHSF a run for their money. However I'd be going for these two mostly for the fire. Continuous fire on a Bonded Redeemer or Vanquisher is amazing especially against models that think they're safe from blast damage because they tend to bunch up nicely for you so you can set the whole unit on fire with a single 4" AoE.

Failing that I'd try to shove Feora1 down their throats and feat before they could kill her with some quick units to get into the MHSF (daughters / zealots / TFG / SHH / Exemplar Errants).