Advantages of The Daemon?

[CaptainCake]

I am currently planning out my future purchases and have done quite a lot of extensive reading into different Heavy 'Jacks and Units. During my search I fell upon the 'Jack know as The Daemon, from what I understand, it seems to be a very good model, with decent weaponry in a combination with good stats. What I really want to know is whether the 'Jack is any good on the table (pro's and con's) and what 'Caster would compliment them best on the battlefield. Any advice will be very useful

[Demeritus]

I have run the Daemon a couple of times and it has done some work. So far, I have run it with Vyros and Ossyan and I found the positioning effect of the gun was definitely not something to dismiss. It makes a great infantry clearing tool, so far I have yet to attempt to use it in melee. In terms of its weakness, it is fairly weak in melee and the gun is only range 10 but it has done some work for me. I know others have had success with marshaling it to the Sentinels in order to benefit from Pronto for a bit of a yo-yo effect.

[Mastershake]

I have run the Daemon a couple of times and it has done some work. So far, I have run it with Vyros and Ossyan and I found the positioning effect of the gun was definitely not something to dismiss. It makes a great infantry clearing tool, so far I have yet to attempt to use it in melee. In terms of its weakness, it is fairly weak in melee and the gun is only range 10 but it has done some work for me. I know others have had success with marshaling it to the Sentinels in order to benefit from Pronto for a bit of a yo-yo effect.

The yo-yo is partial, the other effect is that you get the threat up to 20" (5" drive, 5" walk, 10" range) instead of the normal 15", or can allow it to aim more easily and while marshalled it's almost impossible to stop if from boosting a shot every turn unless you scrap it completely or kill the entire unit.

In general, Daemons should always be marshalled to Sentinels, it's just better.

[Lord Sessadore]

In general, Daemons should always be marshalled to Sentinels, it's just better.

Given the qualifier of 'in general', I agree.

The only exceptions I can think of: if you want to take advantage of Phantom Hunter with Kaelyssa, Bird's Eye/Mobility with Vyros, or if you don't have Sentinels in your list.

I think the main weaknesses of the Daemon in a vacuum are low melee potential, low-ish range, and the combination of RAT 5 and needing a direct hit for the gun to do anything. Marshaling to Sentinels solves those last two problems pretty handily with Pronto and the free boost every turn, as Mastershake explained.

[MMMMK]

In general, Daemons should always be marshalled to Sentinels, it's just better.

This has by my experience with it too, although I've also been pleased with the Scyir as a Daemon marshall when I wasn't running Sents.

In general I find it to be a solid anti-infantry option that, if marshalled, is also totally focus efficient. Depending on the rest of your list I could see it as a replacement for a shooty unit. The downside to the Daemon is that models in some small units can spread out more than 2" from each other, making the gun fairly useless. The 'jack is also lacking against infantry light lists. I'd say it's a safe bet to take at 50 points and higher, but at 35 point games it runs the risk of just not having any good targets (or annihilating whatever target it had and then being only a mild melee threat for the rest of the game).

[Vicarious]

Ehh, Honestly it's better to stick with "always". The Daemon is REALLY strong when marshalled to Sentinels for the reasons listed above. While it's still good in some Battlegroups, there's always going to be better options. If you want to bring one in your list, bring the Sentinels along and tear things up, otherwise look for other options available.

[PG_Sobek]

This has by my experience with it too, although I've also been pleased with the Scyir as a Daemon marshall when I wasn't running Sents.

The main reason I dislike Marshalling it to the Scyer is because he's only one model. If your opponent really sets his mind to taking him out, it's rather easy to take that one free boost away from the Daemon. It's much harder to do that to a full unit of Sentinels.

[Vicarious]

Double Post

[joelker41]

The main reason I dislike Marshalling it to the Scyer is because he's only one model. If your opponent really sets his mind to taking him out, it's rather easy to take that one free boost away from the Daemon. It's much harder to do that to a full unit of Sentinels.

Same reason I always tell new Khador players to not marshal with the koldun lord.

[Xarian]

A Griffon, Gorgon, or even a Sphinx, sure. I wouldn't have him marshal a Daemon, though. The re-roll doesn't make up for the loss of the yo-yo (with Sentinels) or the damage boosts on tougher models (with Warcaster).

[MMMMK]

The reroll makes it just as offensively powerful as with the Sentinels (with a shorter threat range), but it is a lot worse defensively. If you have the Sentinels and want a Daemon, then I'd always marshall it to the Sents. But if you don't have Sents in your list, I still think the Daemon is worth it with a Scyir if you're looking for something to murder infantry.

[joelker41]

Plus 10" command may be the same but that standard bearer reroll is money on drives!

[Syfer22]

From my experience lots of players use their warjacks/heavies as bastions or mobile firebases, using those heavies to screen support models/important solos. The Daemon turns that tactic into a liability, instead using those heavies as anchorpoints to drag enemy lines out of position and kill them. Solos' places of safety hunkering behind a heavy suddenly become traps, ensnaring them.

[DesertSpiral]

I love the Saemon, I feel though that Evyros with the addition of synergy As well as his feat has the ability to put those blessed fists to work in a way that no one else can.I wouldn't dismiss an EVyros Daemon even with sents on the table.

[DesertSpiral]

One more thing in the scyirs favour is acrobatics, and he's a commander. Because I hate Mha fleeing from the avatar .

[Demeritus]

Vyros and Kaelyssa are two caster who I would put any and all jacks in a list in their battleground due to their passive abilities and active ones that support their battlegroups.

[bakaryu]

A Daemon jackmarshalled to Sentinels is absolute money. I run pVyros's forces tier list (up to tier 2) so I have two units of Sentinels each with the UA and I jack marshal a Daemon to each of them.

As canny as an opponent might want to be when it comes to positioning to mitigate the Hellmouth effect, when it comes to the crunch of melee combat experience has shown me that this is nigh on impossible as models are forced to bunch up to optimise volume of attacks. This makes the Daemon a devastating mid game piece easily capable of wiping out half a unit in a single shot which combined with Vengeance can easily see a whole unit wiped out for the cost of between 3 and 6 Sentinels.

Additionally because the jack marshal boost doesn't depend on having a cortex and the vortex cannon isn't attached to any systems, 90% of the time (unless it is already seriously damaged) I will gladly pronto the Daemon out of melee combat to either open up charge lanes for the Sentinels or just to set up the aiming bonus where he is far more likely to kill more than one or two models at a time with his melee attacks. That said though a game in the Lock and Load masters where the Daemon ended up wading through a unit of Iron Fleshed Iron Fang Pikemen has demonstrated to me that his melee attacks do have some place in the world

[Fateweaver]

For those that have tried it, is it worth always bringing a Daemon along with Sentinels, or is it something to do mostly only if you have the extra points? Presumably the combo is going to see more play at 50, but what about for 35? Is it worth trying to work it in with just with certain casters, or I guess I should ask, is it something self sufficient enough that you don't need the caster support? Mostly asking from a Kaelyssa, and Ravyn perspective as they're what I've got to play around with for now.

[Syfer22]

For those that have tried it, is it worth always bringing a Daemon along with Sentinels, or is it something to do mostly only if you have the extra points? Presumably the combo is going to see more play at 50, but what about for 35? Is it worth trying to work it in with just with certain casters, or I guess I should ask, is it something self sufficient enough that you don't need the caster support? Mostly asking from a Kaelyssa, and Ravyn perspective as they're what I've got to play around with for now.

I think it primarily hinges on the warcaster you're playing and what kind of army set up you're doing. I wouldn't say Daemon should always be marshalled to Sentinels, but what I would say is that it's generally a strong choice.

Sometimes you want Daemon in your battle group to give it bonus from the warcaster/feed it more focus. Sometimes you want to forego the Daemon to take more units/solos/a different 'jack. The combination itself is rather self sufficient and doesn't require warcaster support, though, but it IS pricey to do at 35. I'm not a fan of marshalling at 35, especially marshalling something to a melee unit. It's a huge chunk of your points, and can be neutered by sniping out the Sentinel Officer, who was already a high priority target.

Just my 2 cents.

[Axelle]

I've marshalled the Daemon to the Sentinels on 35-50pt scale. They're really tight on 35pts (that's 20pts, I'm using max units), leaving me w/ stormfall archers to cope up w/ the range component in my infantry. But the additional out of activation movement gives you options with that heavy.

Drive also gives the Daemon a decent slam vector, I once had him slammed a jack he previously hit w/ his gun in the previous round into my opponent's caster. My opponent was musing that he's fine hiding behind 2 jacks after the Daemon's gun pulled him B2B, and suddenly recieving all 4 brutal shots from the SFA after being KD'ed.

[MMMMK]

For those that have tried it, is it worth always bringing a Daemon along with Sentinels, or is it something to do mostly only if you have the extra points? Presumably the combo is going to see more play at 50, but what about for 35? Is it worth trying to work it in with just with certain casters, or I guess I should ask, is it something self sufficient enough that you don't need the caster support? Mostly asking from a Kaelyssa, and Ravyn perspective as they're what I've got to play around with for now.

Like I was trying to say above, I think that the Daemon with jack marshall is worth it in most lists at 50 points. At 35, there is generally less infantry to clear out and the job might already be accomplished by something else in your list (like MHSF +UA). So if you already have a good infantry clearing element in the list at 35pts, I'd pass on the Daemon.

Bakaryu's list suited the Daemon perfectly because it focused on Sentinels, which are an armor killing unit. If he had used MHSF or Invictors or something, then I don't think the Daemons would have been a good choice there. Also, there are some kinds of infantry that the Daemon is just not great against. Pow 12's are generally murder on infantry but anything that can achieve arm 19+ will have a lot less to worry about.

[Murkhadh]

I love the Saemon,

There is a joke in here involving a froydian slip. lol

[bakaryu]

There is a joke in here involving a froydian slip. lol

Dear oh dear...