Vyros1/2 No Longer Grant 360' LOS to Hyperion's Melee Attacks

[magi]

As per Maudlin's ruling:

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...=1#post1487257

"A 360° front arc/LoS does not affect Fields of Fire. They remain 90° as marked on the base.

Any weapon system not constrained by Fields of Fire (S, -, H) can benefit from the 360° front arc."

This means that Vyros1/2 no longer grant 360' sweep power attacks or 360' fields of fire to the Hyperion's secondary guns. I think this means that Bird's Eye went from being amazing with Hyperion to being so-so to detrimental. Thoughts?

[GunSeraph06]

Why would they nerf him like that? Birds Eye was one of the major things people were looking forward to using him with...I thought it would kind of make up for a lackluster Colossal....

Guess PP is hatin' on elves lol

[Jake the Dog]

Why would they nerf him like that? Birds Eye was one of the major things people were looking forward to using him with...I thought it would kind of make up for a lackluster Colossal....

Guess PP is hatin' on elves lol

It is a bigger hit to Druids. They can grant 360° arcs on demand with all their warlocks thanks to the Argus's Animus.

[PG_Dawnlord Ed]

Also, note that Bird's Eye does not "No Longer" allow Hyperion to ingore Fields of Fire. It never did. We just didn't know it yet.

Regardless, it's not something that the developers were caught off guard by. They planned for it by writing the Fields of Fire so that it deliberately overwrites the traditional rules governing 180 degree arcs. The quickness of the answer tells me they were ready for that one. If the Infernals have to go to the devs, it generally takes much longer if they have to reason it out.

[RetributionBomb]

Its not like Vyros was the only guy with 360 LOS for Battlegroup. You also had the spell Awareness that is on several casters. Although funny enough the casters that do have Awareness are generally considered bad and this would have been a little boost for them.

*shrug*

[Xarian]

It's a poor ruling and removes the flavor of having a 360-degree arc entirely for the affected models. It also causes more inconsistencies than it clears up.

It's now possible to charge a model and be unable to hit it with any melee weapons. It's also possible to engage models without actually having a weapon that can hit them. Both of these situations are absurd.

[Temujin]

It's now possible to charge a model and be unable to hit it with any melee weapons.

No it isn't. As you must turn to face your charge target directly, both fields of fire will overlap the charged model.

It's also possible to engage models without actually having a weapon that can hit them. Both of these situations are absurd.

Warjacks can make bash attacks in their full arc, whether that is 180d or 360d, without using a weapon.

Seems less absurd to me than collosals gaining the ability to do 360d spin-attacks when the controlling 'caster's wielding a bird, but YMMV.

[Xarian]

No it isn't. As you must turn to face your charge target directly, both fields of fire will overlap the charged model.

A model with 360 degree arc is directly facing all models at all times.

Bash attacks don't exist any more.

[Demeritus]

Interesting a bit unfortunate but not surprising I will update the rulings thread with this.

[Lord Sessadore]

Can't say I'm surprised. That's what I thought when I first read the rules - the fields of fire rules reference the markers on your base, not your front arc.

Anyway, it's not going to make Hyperion suck or anything. I believe Hyperion was and is worth playing without the 360 sweep and all that jazz.

Follow-up question, since I don't have my NQ42 handy: with this ruling, can the attacker still choose which grid they want to attack every time, or do the rules for which damage grid gets attacked reference the field of fire marks as well?

[Cowboy247]

Damage is relegated to the appropriate field of fire. If your in the back arc you can damage either. in the right front its the right damage grid, left front arc the left damage grid, if directly in the middle of both in the front you choose like the back arc.

[rwould]

Specifically what would be the impact of this for Free Strikes? In theory due to front arc and the ability of power attacks (headbutt being the obvious one) you would have a 360 arc for melee range but no weapon available to carry out the free strike unless they moved out of the models melee range whilst within arc of Fields Of Fire?

edit: read below some of this is wrong

[ucfan34]

The loss of bird's eye on the secondary guns makes me sadder than the loss of the sweep. This ruling makes me sad.

[Lord Sessadore]

Reading through the melee range rules, I wonder if this means that Hyperion has no melee range outside of its two fields of fire even with Bird's Eye:

A model's melee range is the longest melee range of its usable melee weapons.

There is more in those rules, including a clause that warjacks always have at least a 0.5" melee range, but I'm thinking the "usable melee weapons" bit would restrict its ability to engage to the front arc.

Thoughts?

Edit, instead of double posting:

Damage is relegated to the appropriate field of fire. If your in the back arc you can damage either. in the right front its the right damage grid, left front arc the left damage grid, if directly in the middle of both in the front you choose like the back arc.

Yeah, I know the synopsis. I was wondering if those say something along the lines of "A model on the line separating the fields of fire is in both fields of fire and can choose which damage grid to damage," or if it says something along the lines of, "A model in the center of the colossal's front arc can choose which grid to damage." With Bird's Eye, those wordings make a difference. The first would make attackers obey the field of fire markings on the physical base, the second would mean they can choose which grid any time, regardless of relative positions.

[ucfan34]

If field of fire is indeed going to be separate from LOS, any melee weapon would have to be restricted to the field of fire.

I'd at least start playing it this way until I found out otherwise.

[rwould]

Melee range is defined not by power attacks but by the usable weapons so I got that bit wrong. But it does define them as front arc, and only defines effects and special rules as increasing this (when Fields Of Fire decreases it).

[magi]

It's a poor ruling and removes the flavor of having a 360-degree arc entirely for the affected models. It also causes more inconsistencies than it clears up.

It's now possible to charge a model and be unable to hit it with any melee weapons. It's also possible to engage models without actually having a weapon that can hit them. Both of these situations are absurd.

Specifically what would be the impact of this for Free Strikes? In theory due to front arc and the ability of power attacks (headbutt being the obvious one) you would have a 360 arc for melee range but no weapon available to carry out the free strike unless they moved out of the models melee range whilst within arc of Fields Of Fire?

edit: read below some of this is wrong

I have asked these questions in the rules forum.