Tiny legged trolls - why???

[sucka]

Is this a new direction for Trollbloods? A lot of recent releases are stumpy, and it looks absolutely ridiculous. I know I won't be purchasing Sons of Bragg because of this. My loss.

Is anyone else annoyed by this?

[Jake the Dog]

I thought tiny legs was their thing...

[Septimus]

Way to have a humano-centric view of proportions, racist.

[Mustakrakish]

Way to have a humano-centric view of proportions, racist.

that would be speciesist...

[Lich_Lord_X]

I thought tiny legs was their thing...

Same here. That's like not buying Khador because they look too Soviet.

[PG_joedj]

Trolls don't have tiny legs, everything ELSE is just massive!

[DaPreacherMan43]

Trolls don't have tiny legs, everything ELSE is just massive!

Its like saying elves ears aren't pointy, everything else is just curvy.

[Sebi]

it's like saying sarcasm is normal just everyone else is too serious

BTT: thats how Trolls look. Finally
Take a look at other Trollblood infantry and you will see that they all look like that more or less.
And bending the knees in the pose even emphasises the look.

Well ... that is it ...

[CrimsonGuard]

it's like saying sarcasm is normal just everyone else is too serious

Nice one!

[guspm]

race/rās/

Noun:

A competition between runners, horses, vehicles, boats, etc., to see which is the fastest in covering a set course. Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.

speciesplural of spe·cies (Noun)

Noun:

A group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding. The species is the principal... A group subordinate to a genus and containing individuals agreeing in some common attributes and called by a common name.

I think in this case racist and speciest might be interchangeable, while the use of racist might be more correct than its common application between ethnic groups of the human race

[Loki77515]

Fennblades, Jarl, Kriel Warriors and other Trollkin models are appropriately proportioned. Their legs don't look tiny and match the rest of their body well. The bigger trolls, on the other hand, are modeled after gorilla physiology and use their hands to help move around (like the Earthborn, Classic Blitzer and Mountain King models).

The Sons of Bragg are just not very good models. I, too, dislike their tiny legs and awkward faces.

[A8mew]

I'm not sure there's a way to show three burly blue humanoids singing in chorus (loudly) without making it look awkward. Pretty sure its written down in a book somewhere.

[Loki77515]

I'm not sure there's a way to show three burly blue humanoids singing in chorus (loudly) without making it look awkward. Pretty sure its written down in a book somewhere.

Borka's model is shouting and he doesn't look awkward. Also, the regular Fell Caller solo looks fine. I think this is just the fault of the sculptor.

[HellecticMojo]

I thought tiny legs was their thing...

actually huge forearms and chin are their thing.

I've mentioned in the Trollblood forums, but I'm kinda in the mood to write.

http://cwalton73.deviantart.com/gall...70995#/d34uanb
http://cwalton73.deviantart.com/gall...70995#/d2uh2a8
http://cwalton73.deviantart.com/gall...70995#/d2udxxh
http://cwalton73.deviantart.com/gall...70995#/d1zt1gj
http://cwalton73.deviantart.com/gall...et=24#/d1pv4ol

basically if you look at these concept sketches (I assume you will take C walton's art to be the standard for trollkin form since he's the art honcho of PP)

All the trolls first of all have a seven head proportion
Even Skaldi and Doomshaper's irregular body shapes hold at 7 head proportion like an average human would. Gunnbjorn breaks the norm by being 8 head proportion (he's really tall and most heroically body built)

The trolkin groin starts around 4th head in while lean humans start around the 3.5, marking the area where we would consider the beginning of legs. So yes, trolls have shorter legs, length wise in proportions. However, they are no where near the level o "tiny" Trolls are also wider around the belt, basically they have a stocky build. They are the fat strongmen body types.

Reason the trolls are considered the "tiny leg" faction is because trolls have thick forearms. This is where their entire silhouette diverge from the human forms. While the human forearm taper into a reverse teardrop shape, the trolls have it reversed, where their hands and wrists are bigger as they move away from the body. The funny thing is that this is still parallely proportioned to the human skeleton. If you transposition a human forearm into the trollkin form, you will find that the wrist actually falls in the same area, the entire length extension of the arm caused by the giant hands.

TLDR: Trolls are fat people. They have short legs, not tiny legs

[Jota]

Fennblades, Jarl, Kriel Warriors and other Trollkin models are appropriately proportioned. Their legs don't look tiny and match the rest of their body well. The bigger trolls, on the other hand, are modeled after gorilla physiology and use their hands to help move around (like the Earthborn, Classic Blitzer and Mountain King models).

The Sons of Bragg are just not very good models. I, too, dislike their tiny legs and awkward faces.

I am with Loki in this. Saddening, I sure hope PP gets better at setting standards for theirs sculptors to avoid the divergent looks of the Trollkin (and getting rid of this malformed rakitis-streak in the kriels).

I am on the fence regarding getting these models at all. If a get them I must convert them - and I am hesitant due to the time and additional cost involved.

[A8mew]

Borka's model is shouting and he doesn't look awkward. Also, the regular Fell Caller solo looks fine. I think this is just the fault of the sculptor.

Yeah, but those're just individual models.

You make a group of three of them, have them sing in chorus and suddenly it looks awkward. Manly men like Trollblood men don't sing in trios- they form a barbershop quartet.

[Wishing]

I'll join in and agree that the Sons are, in my subjective view, just awkwardly sculpted. Whenever an unappealing model is released, there is always a crowd of people commenting "it's supposed to look ugly!" Such people fail to realise that a model can be sculpted to whatever weird standard of ugliness or lack of proportion is proscribed by their race and still look "cool" and make you go "wow, nice!" Models that are unappealing and make you go "ugh, not cool" are just badly sculpted. A model is never "supposed" to make you not want to buy it.

Obviously levels of coolness and ugliness and whether a model is badly sculpted or not is subjective, which always needs to be kept in mind.

[Leprousy]

actually huge forearms and chin are their thing.

I've mentioned in the Trollblood forums, but I'm kinda in the mood to write.

http://cwalton73.deviantart.com/gall...70995#/d34uanb
http://cwalton73.deviantart.com/gall...70995#/d2uh2a8
http://cwalton73.deviantart.com/gall...70995#/d2udxxh
http://cwalton73.deviantart.com/gall...70995#/d1zt1gj
http://cwalton73.deviantart.com/gall...et=24#/d1pv4ol

basically if you look at these concept sketches (I assume you will take C walton's art to be the standard for trollkin form since he's the art honcho of PP)

All the trolls first of all have a seven head proportion
Even Skaldi and Doomshaper's irregular body shapes hold at 7 head proportion like an average human would. Gunnbjorn breaks the norm by being 8 head proportion (he's really tall and most heroically body built)

The trolkin groin starts around 4th head in while lean humans start around the 3.5, marking the area where we would consider the beginning of legs. So yes, trolls have shorter legs, length wise in proportions. However, they are no where near the level o "tiny" Trolls are also wider around the belt, basically they have a stocky build. They are the fat strongmen body types.

Reason the trolls are considered the "tiny leg" faction is because trolls have thick forearms. This is where their entire silhouette diverge from the human forms. While the human forearm taper into a reverse teardrop shape, the trolls have it reversed, where their hands and wrists are bigger as they move away from the body. The funny thing is that this is still parallely proportioned to the human skeleton. If you transposition a human forearm into the trollkin form, you will find that the wrist actually falls in the same area, the entire length extension of the arm caused by the giant hands.

TLDR: Trolls are fat people. They have short legs, not tiny legs

I beg to disagree with this analysis. Since this discussion is about the models, and not the artwork I think you missed an important aspect about the proportions. Yes, in the concept art the trolls mirror human proportions, but in the actual sculpts this does not always come through. Looking at the discussed Sons of Bragg you can clearly measure their heights At 5 1/2 heads not 7. Their legs measure only around 1 3/4 heads clearly showing a disproportionate "tiny legged" model.

It gets even worse on some of the other sculpts such as the Bushwackers barely even make it to 3 1/2 heads! While I think the concept art is phenomenal, and has a pleasing proportion I feel the sculpts failed to capture this. This leaves us with Trolls being distinguished by their tiny legs(among other things of course).

[The Happy Anarchist]

Yeah, all of that artwork you linked makes them look slightly out of proportion to humans. Slightly shorter legs, slightly bigger forearms, very pronounced chins. Not ridiculously tiny legs, outrageously sized forearms and gigantic chins.

Honestly though, I don't mind the Runeshapers. They are slightly crazy in proportion but they mainly just look like they have large hands and chins. The tiny leg thing just looks ridiculous, especially to the extent of how tiny they are. Also, not just shorter than they should be, but much thinner as well. It is one thing if they had extremely short thick legs. It would still be awkward, but wouldn't be as bad as the little twigs they have now.

This is a dramatic step away from the way trolls have looked in the past. Everything else about the models I could forgive, because screaming/bellowing/singing faces can be a bit awkward - particularly nonhuman ones with giant chins. The tiny legs just look ridiculous though.

People have also suggested that all troll infantry looked like that. Incorrect, none do. In fact, one of the suggestions in the troll forum that came up was swapping their legs for Fennblade legs, which wouldn't work if Fenns had tiny legs.

[Murkhadh]

If the worst thing about any model in my faction was the legs are too short, I'd be pretty freaking happy.

[Crate123]

Its just a fact that the Sons of Bragg are hideous mutants that the trollkins have been forced to use. The horrors of their hideous appearance means that all the trolls that have the stomach to fight alongside them are the bravest of their race.
Its just sad that they have to be so ugly. Its a shame we have to ask for a resculpt before the models are even available to the public.

[Mad_Zerker]

Tiny legs are their thing. Look at the 'Jacks. And Nyss have big heads :P

[Kinsman]

They look pretty fantastic. Lots of character, very comic book looking. They're also consistent with the rest of the line, with the artwork, with most of the other newer sculpts. I think there are a ton of other models that need to be redone, honestly, and I'd be pretty annoyed if those didn't get done before a Bragg redux.

Grissel 1 is atrocious.
Kriel Warriors look like they rode in on the short bus.
Champions don't look very much like champions of anything much.
Runeshapers could use a little help.

Can we throw in some other factions?
Rhyas and Saeryn
Vayl 1

All of these need to get smashed and redone. Dear Lord, Grissel 1....

[whitekong]

This isn't really new for privateer press and trolls, the bloodgorgers from cryx are also poorly proportioned.
http://privateerpress.com/warmachine...s/bloodgorgers

[Binabik15]

Lets just agree that there's a reason why the sons of Bragg are choir boys and not Krielstonebearers like real manly (trolly?) Trollblood.

I vote with my wallet by not buying models I din't like, which, sadly, includes pretty much everything trolls recently got. I want the great looking trolls of mk 1 back, not those torso fristed, swollen chin twig legged things. Oh well, it got me to play with Circle, who have lots of awesome models and are getting more and more.

[rham7649]

I'm going to be the oddball and just say I love the models. The only problem I have is the head quills but that a very minor detail. I think the detail on them is awesome, and well I'm 6'1 and wear 30 length jeans so I have short legs so I think they reek of awesome haha.

[HellecticMojo]

Tiny legs are their thing. Look at the 'Jacks. And Nyss have big heads :P

actually most infantry models in general get bigger head in the actual model than normal proportions. This is due to sculpting reasons, because getting details down while being 30mm scale is hard to do.

most infantry models have 6 head proportions usually. Medium based models usually get better head to body proportions.

@Leprousy, I think you've compeltely missed my point. I was pointing out the discrepancy of model and art and people misconception to think that trolls have disproportionately small legs by default.

[Saraminss]

I have to side with the camp that the small legs are normal for trolls... Look as some of the concepts ... Even when some of the models are near normal proportion, the concepts have those short legs

[Zargar]

I'm not in the boat of the Sons of Bragg hate... I love the models. They look hilarious and stand out. They make me wish i play trollbloods.

[Autumn Stone]

I plan to extensively convert the models back to normal troll blood proportions and into the poses in their art.
I have yet to work out how to fix their faces, but I have a few ideas. Hats may also be on the menu.

And they should indeed be a barber shop quartet, which is why their UA Saxon Orik has been taking singing lessons.

Cheers
A.S.

[Lalnuir]

Can we throw in some other factions?
Rhyas and Saeryn
Vayl 1

I like Vayl1 sculpt. . .
And whats wrong with the ninja twins sculpts o.O?

[Crate123]

I'm not in the boat of the Sons of Bragg hate... I love the models. They look hilarious and stand out. They make me wish i play trollbloods.

That is exactly what many of us dislike. Im tired of being the orks of iron kingdoms. Stop giving me cartooney models.

[DrFish]

I think the troll models look how they're supposed to and it's the players desire for how they want the models to look that's at fault. PP doesn't need to, and definitely should not need to, run their sculpts by the players for inspection before release.

Personally, I like the Sons. Yeah, there's too much gum flapping going on, but as a whole I think they're great models with tons of detail and life to them. They're trolls, not humans, and as such their physiology is going to be different as decided by the company that created this incarnation of them. Don't like it? Play a different faction. I would hate for them to change any of their artistic design goals for troll bloods to align with player complaints to just make them blue skinned humans on medium bases.

[portedGoblin]

I think the troll models look how they're supposed to and it's the players desire for how they want the models to look that's at fault. PP doesn't need to, and definitely should not need to, run their sculpts by the players for inspection before release.

So customer opinions does not matter? That sounds like a good route to success.

Personally, I like the Sons. Yeah, there's too much gum flapping going on, but as a whole I think they're great models with tons of detail and life to them. They're trolls, not humans, and as such their physiology is going to be different as decided by the company that created this incarnation of them. Don't like it? Play a different faction. I would hate for them to change any of their artistic design goals for troll bloods to align with player complaints to just make them blue skinned humans on medium bases.

Well all the other Trollkin models release so far has bigger legs proportionally then the Sons of Bragg. What does this mean? Will all the future trollkin models have the new short style legs? How will this be explained in the fluff? Maybe that the trolls now have been cursed by some Dragon? Or it could be a rule based change to better represent the factions slower then average speed.

[Loki77515]

That is exactly what many of us dislike. Im tired of being the orks of iron kingdoms. Stop giving me cartooney models.

I completely agree.

[Jota]

That is exactly what many of us dislike. Im tired of being the orks of iron kingdoms. Stop giving me cartooney models.

/totally agree

[Rogue Sun]

That is exactly what many of us dislike. Im tired of being the orks of iron kingdoms. Stop giving me cartooney models.

Well stop looking hilariously lumpy and like smurfs who took one too many steroids and we'd stop laughing.

[Matthaeus]

Also considering we're talking about the faction with pygmies, whelps, and a warlock who's basically an irredeemable bon vivant and boisterous brawler who never goes to battle sober or without his personal reserve of ale, yeah, can't deny trollbloods have a light-hearted side fairly uncommon in the WMH setting. Not quite to comic relief level, but still.

[Rogue Sun]

Also considering we're talking about the faction with pygmies, whelps, and a warlock who's basically an irredeemable bon vivant and boisterous brawler who never goes to battle sober or without his personal reserve of ale, yeah, can't deny trollbloods have a light-hearted side fairly uncommon in the WMH setting. Not quite to comic relief level, but still.

This. You knew what you were getting into when you bought the faction. They are an excuse for sculptors, painters and fluff writers to have some fun in an otherwise extremely serious setting. If you don't want fun and whimsical play Skorne.

[razcalking]

This. You knew what you were getting into when you bought the faction. They are an excuse for sculptors, painters and fluff writers to have some fun in an otherwise extremely serious setting. If you don't want fun and whimsical play Skorne.

Yeah, nothing says fun and whimsical like stumpy-legged freaks with inflamed gums. The problem is that these models are a DEPARTURE from the standard Trollblood look (which we liked).