Pro Tip: LVlad

[PG_Caecus Scius]

So I played a game with LVlad last night at the LGS, with his tier at 35 points.

Lvad
Drago
Wardog
Min Mechanics
Full Uhlans
Markhov
Fenris
2x Drakkhun

So the pro tips that I learned from this game:

1. You have to play up front if you want to go for the assassination. For safety reasons I screened my caster with other models, but on the feat turn, I had all these guys in my way, and you will want to activate Vlad first, before charging in with everything else. Its risky as hell to do this, so I think it gives the Gun Carriage a real place in this list, as it can screen your caster, and it can activate without feat and still get it's job done. Wish I had taken it (I would have at 50 points)

2. Its better to take 2x 3 man units of uhlans than 1x 5 man units. It costs more, but I think it would have been better to have 2 units that activate interdependently.

3. Flashing Blade is awesome: I've used it before on some other casters, and its great. However with tall in the saddle its even better. You can draw LOS to models better, so you get your full reach in attacks.

4. First turn, speed 8 warjacks that run for free are pretty awesome.

5. After upkeeping HoF, Infernal machine, and casting dash you don't have all that much focus left. You will want to have dash up, so you can sprint away from combat for the yoyo effect, or if you assassination goes bad. You need the set up to be pretty much perfect to get your assassination off.

6. Remember if the enemy is in the way, and you think you will impact attack him dead on your way into your real target, and he rolls tough: Your gonna have a bad time.

[epyonliu]

Why is the jack SPD 8?

[PG_LunarSol]

Why is the jack SPD 8?

I assume he's playing Tier, which gives Jacks +2 SPD for the first turn +Infernal Machine. That's also the only way the Uhlans can be FA: 2. I really wish his tier gave a point discount on Cav instead of an FA increase. It's really the worst kind of tier list that way, IMO.

[swirly]

Seems to me, LVlad doesn't really need that much cav.
I think fenris, a Drakhun and a GC would do. IFP and great bears with dash will be so awesome.
Beast 09 and spriggan would be better than Drago too

[Peg leg Pete]

on screening: it's not going to fit his teir, but for the reasons you stated (models being in his way, wanting to make vlad go first), i am thinking of using grelords. the disadvantage is not being able to use his speed to its full effect, but when needed, he can explode out from behind the cloud.

[PG_LunarSol]

Seems to me, LVlad doesn't really need that much cav.
I think fenris, a Drakhun and a GC would do. IFP and great bears with dash will be so awesome.
Beast 09 and spriggan would be better than Drago too

This is more the direction I'm leaning. Wind Wall limo with Drago, Fenris, Drakhun, and GBs behind Dashing IFP. Gun Carriage supplying fire support. Beast and Spriggan are generally better than Drago, but Drago definitely has some benefits here. The free run and charge and likely additional attack seems pretty great for a caster that wants to covet focus as much as Vlad3.

[Auracco]

Seems like a good list but it would really struggle if it doesn't get the alpha charge. Casters like PHaley, EHaley, Grim angus, EIrusk would totally ruin your day.

[PG_LunarSol]

Seems like a good list but it would really struggle if it doesn't get the alpha charge. Casters like PHaley, EHaley, Grim angus, EIrusk would totally ruin your day.

I don't think there's a Vlad3 list that isn't going to have that problem to a degree. At the very least, I doubt there's a list without that problem that wouldn't be better with several other casters.

[scout's honor]

Beast 09 and spriggan would be better than Drago too

I'm thinking with the style of this list (reach infantry and cav models using Dash, Infernal Machine on a jack) reach on a jack isn't going to make quite as big a difference as in general. Still very good obviously, but compared to how much cheaper Drago is and all the extras he gets, especially with Vlad I don't think that good.

Personally I think it will be a fun theme force to play, but with some very hard matchups. Given how much a Vlad2 theme force misses Pathfinder outside Relentless Charge, I was hoping for a tier benefit to address this - it's going to be just as much an issue with Vlad3, from the looks of it.

[PG_Draxos]

Another thing is you need to learn when to charge and when to do ride by attacks.

[@Kriegsspiele]

My plan for T4/35 is:

lVlad
- Drago
- War Dog
Fenris
2x MOW Drakhun w/o
Markov (Can't see cool manoeuvres otherwise.)
2x Uhlans (min)

Looking forward to get the legend.

[PG_Duckboy]

My 15pts list is:

Vlad3
bezerker
Fenris
Markhov
Drakhun w/ dismount.

[PG_Caecus Scius]

I played against Erusk... it did suck. I still won by assassinating him with L Vlad, but not on the feat turn.

Its not about this list being the best list-or what to take WITH him, I made the thread to be a general consensus of knowledge I gained in general from 1 game with him.

It goes to show that theory machine is too much out of touch with reality.

[scout's honor]

I made the thread to be a general consensus of knowledge I gained in general from 1 game with him.

One player's knowledge from a single game played hardly constitutes consensus.

But thanks for the topic, it's food for thought.

[OMM_Lukav]

I played against Erusk... it did suck. I still won by assassinating him with L Vlad, but not on the feat turn.

Its not about this list being the best list-or what to take WITH him, I made the thread to be a general consensus of knowledge I gained in general from 1 game with him.

It goes to show that theory machine is too much out of touch with reality.

Thanks for the information. The meckaniks are the only thing you have me wondering about. Where they included to fill that 2 point niche, or did you really want them in the list?

[Trihnicus]

The question we'd need answered is whether You think the Uhlans carry their own weight in his list with the addition of Dash and his feat turn. Been a lot of speculation on whether his feat is a "trap" to entice you to take an over-broad load of cavalry when he and a few solos would be sufficient.

[PG_LunarSol]

The question we'd need answered is whether You think the Uhlans carry their own weight in his list with the addition of Dash and his feat turn. Been a lot of speculation on whether his feat is a "trap" to entice you to take an over-broad load of cavalry when he and a few solos would be sufficient.

It depends on what you're wanting to use the feat for a double alpha strike or to use the Side Step for an assassination. The biggest issue with the Uhlans is they only have a single attack off the charge, so they can't really do anything with the feat except run away.

[OMM_Lukav]

I list I plan to try out is:

Vlad3
Drago
Fenris
MoW Drakhun
MoW Kovnik
Doomreavers with UA
MoW Bombardiers

Basically use Dash to make the DR and MoW even faster (ok it is more of a power walk for the MoW). DR will be first wave attackers, MoW will provide limited ranged support with their cannons. Competitive..i doubt it. But i like the idea of a Madness and Metal list.

[scout's honor]

Dash is control area based, right? Not CMD?

[tuttleboy]

Dash is control and to me it ends up being the money spell for Vlad3. Infernal Machine is cool and all but not taking free strikes on any of our already arse kicking infantry is sweet...so is SPD 5 MoW of all flavors.

[x3tsniper]

He needs a ranged jack in my opinion. Everything he wants to take, he really wants to be fast, and hit hard in melee, and you don't need the jack slowing you down, even when he has infernal machine. I vote behemoth/destroyer/conquest.

[Seventhprophet]

Everything I see on this guy makes me want to play him more and more. Can't wait until he is released.

[PG_Caecus Scius]

I took the mechanics, because i had 2 points and nothing else would fit... I didn't really want them.

I think the Uhlans were worth their points, they did respectable damage to quite a few units, but more than that- they required the enemy to spend a lot of resources to get rid of them, which ultimately won me the game.

I think his feat is best used by jacks, Fenris, and by himself. Which is weird in some ways- But he can't support more than 1 jack well, because he only gets to put IM on one, and the army is going to be fast.

Hopefully other people, WHO HAVE PLAYED GAMES WITH L VLAD, will chime in on their tips for how he plays. Because he plays a lot different on the table than he did in my mind.

[tuttleboy]

I've got only one game in with him and at 50 pts it was:
Vlad3
Drago
Spriggan
Pup
MoW Drakhun w/dismount
Fenris
Markov
Uhlans (min)
Eliminator
Eliminator
MoW Shocktroopers (max)

My feat turn was a joke, the only thing that died was a storm guard and that was to an impact attack from Fenris so at least he got to sprint, and Markov killed a single storm guard and sprinted into the back field. I was against a Nemo3 tier list with a storm wall and storm strider so there weren't to many squishy targets out there. Luckily his feat turn was like a 3 Stooges short and was a huge waste,too. SPD 5 MoW are legit, SPD 8 Kayazy Eliminators are legit, I'm personally a bit underwhelmed by the Uhlans right now, but that will probably change once I can get them to hit DEF 13, like I said it was a bad turn. Dash could also be hilarious against those smelly Satyxis Raiders when they get their SPD buff put on them and they're run up to engage your (insert good infantry here) and you just get to step away ignoring free strikes or do some creative charging and take them down.All in all I like him a lot. He's not quite the melee monster he used to be, but he's a huge threat and he's DEF 15 and still has windwall.

[PG_ThatRickGuy]

I've actually been toying with the idea of a Vlad3 assassination list:

Vlad 3
-Drago
-Wishnailer
Kayazy Assassins max
-Underboss
Kayazy Eliminators
Kayazy Eliminators
Gorman
Ragman

Vlad just camps focus to avoid dieing while his high defense SPD 7-8 army charges through the opponent's front line and takes out their caster.

-Rick

[John of Arc]

That sounds hilarious, Rick

[TarlSS]

For the themelist, 2 Drakhuns is the bomb. I love my Drakhun, I rarely field any army without him. 2 Drakhuns with dismount is about the same number of boxes you'd get off a 10 point jack, but with extra speed and reach.

[@Kriegsspiele]

For the themelist, 2 Drakhuns is the bomb. I love my Drakhun, I rarely field any army without him. 2 Drakhuns with dismount is about the same number of boxes you'd get off a 10 point jack, but with extra speed and reach.

That's exactly what I think. They should be a great body guard for Vlad as well to get him ready for the feat turn.

[sionnach19]

Got a game in on Vassal tonight. 35 points, I ran:

Vlad3
-Behemoth
-War Dog
Full Demo Corps
Doom Reavers
Widowmakers
Drakhun w/Dismount
Saxon Orrik

Played against a Terminus infantry spam list... full bile thralls, full bane thralls, full bane knights, tartarus, necrotech, two min units of mechanithralls, and the flying bone jack.

Game ended with Tartarus using up his last focus to beat Vlad down. Wasn't much I could do, at that point... I only had Widowmakers and a crippled Behemoth left, and Vlad had to kill the Necrotech or I was going to get swamped (the little bastard passed three tough rolls from Behemoth, too). I'm experimenting with Vlad3 lists that don't need a ton of cavalry to work. Dash is insanely good; speed 7 Doom Reavers, parrying Widowmakers... really good stuff. Hand of Fate on the Widowmakers had them dropping four models every turn, they could walk out of combat and snipe down whatever infantry was in range. The Demo Corps didn't do much (speed 5 is still slow...), and the Doom Reavers burned themselves out alpha striking the bane thrall unit.

Feat was underwhelming... Behemoth used it to skip around which was cool, but Vlad whiffed on the bone jack and was stuck hanging. Playing against Cryx infantry spam sucked a lot... Vlad tore through a lot of chaff infantry on his own, the blood boon buffs were sorely missed. He's definitely a really fun/different caster, pumped to get more practice in with him.

Question on Dash: does it affect Vlad himself?

[@Kriegsspiele]

Are my thoughts about the Steelheads + Valachev with lVlad correct?

[Karl Eller]

Are my thoughts about the Steelheads + Valachev with lVlad correct?

Sadly you are incorrect. Secretly I think it's because Valachev realises that Steelheads would be better than Uhlans :P

[@Kriegsspiele]

Sadly you are incorrect. Secretly I think it's because Valachev realises that Steelheads would be better than Uhlans :P

Sounds reasonable.

[Octavius_Maximus]

I used Lvlad once.

I think Dash is better than just a charge extender. One of my favorite things about it is using it to get amazing positioning really quickly.

Like suddenly dissolving a flank of your force and moving it all across to hit with the full force at one of your opponents flanks. Models who can block movement are great at this like the Gun Carriage and Rifle Corps. Letting the Gun Carriage play on a flank and slow down everyone there, while you use 14" runs to put massive pressure on one side is just delightful.

[Havock]

Dash + IFP + minifeat = hilarity. Even if you just want to engage a gunline, you out-range them actually: 7+7+2 = 16 inches of 'locking range'

[Jrandom36]

Dash + IFP + minifeat = hilarity. Even if you just want to engage a gunline, you out-range them actually: 7+7+2 = 16 inches of 'locking range'

In Jamie P's battle report from Templecon Masters (I believe) he got an addition 3 inches out of his IFP mini-feat by charging his Widowmakers. With that trick in your scenario, you'd have a 19" locking range.

[brotherscott]

I played a game with Vlad3 last week, and will probably get another game in tomorrow with the "Dog & Pony Show" theme.

I run:

Vlad3
- Drago
- War Dog
Markov
Drakhun (dismount)
Uhlans (5)
Uhlans (5)

That gets to to 34/ 35 points and tier 4 of the theme force.

The army is fast. Sometimes almost too fast. The first game I was playing against a 'jack heavy Sorscha list with Demo Corps, Widowmakers, the Great Bears, and Yuri.

I made pretty quick work of the troops and solos. The impact attack I got with Markov against the Great Bears would have been so much better if I hadn't popped my charge target with the impact attack, because I would have caught Yuri in the 4" AOE, but a HoF Uhlan made quick work there with a Ride By Attack.

The low model count and fact I wasn't facing a lot of troops made this a moderately difficult game to gauge the new 'caster. The army did the bulk of the work for me, so Vlad was stuck with very little to do and very few targets throughout this game. In the end I forgot to use side-step with Vlad on the feat turn to keep him out of range of Sorscha's feat and charge, so I lost on the first outing (also forgetting Uhlans have Relentless Charge as there was a river stretching across the table east to west).

I would say it pays to learn and remember the cavalry rules within this theme. I am already a fan of cavalry and had built up enough of a force to take with Vlad2 and his theme, so this made it easy.

Away from the theme force I am looking at running Cylena & Nyss Hunters with Valachev and maybe Kayazy Assassins... but that is all theory for now.

I see a lot of good potential with Vlad3, and it will take a few more games to iron him out and get used to his rules. I agree that playing him more forward against unit heavy opponents seems pretty intuitive, but the risks should be taken into consideration depending on what one is facing.

I still really like him-