Poof!

[baronvonchaos]

I played one of my first games with trolls against cygnar the other day, and I realized 1 horrible thing. I had a centurion harrowing me with Arcane Shield on it... Sitting pretty at ARM 24. Even an enraged Mauler would have some issues taking this guy down. My question is not how do you defeat ARM 24, but how do I get rid of spells and animii?

In Warmachine, I play Mercs and Menoth and there are several ways to neutralize upkeep spells and what have you. What do trolls have as a counter-magic model/unit? I found 2 that rhyme the Thrullg and Mulg, but the Thrullg is a little laser focused. Mulg doesn't cancel out upkeep spells, but does prevent them from being cast.

Is the achilles heel of trolls the magic wand?

Thoughts, tips, comments?

[PG_Viper114]

pDoomshaper has Purification. Beyond that, I can't think of much else that can do something of the sort off the top of my head...

[PG_petegrrrr]

pDoomshaper has Purification. Beyond that, I can't think of much else that can do something of the sort off the top of my head...

Thrullg also knocks off upkeeps for only 3 points. He can be very handy.

[Kamahin]

You don't, you just counter buff better.

[baronvonchaos]

You don't, you just counter buff better.

The troll mantra, right there.

I'm looking ahead too for things like Crippling Grasp on a unit of Champs makes them horribly slow. Being able to nullify that is greatly needed.

[Sardonic Artery]

Again, Thrullg. Walk him behind your infantry.

[Beckman]

I played one of my first games with trolls against cygnar the other day, and I realized 1 horrible thing. I had a centurion harrowing me with Arcane Shield on it... Sitting pretty at ARM 24. Even an enraged Mauler would have some issues taking this guy down. My question is not how do you defeat ARM 24, but how do I get rid of spells and animii?

In Warmachine, I play Mercs and Menoth and there are several ways to neutralize upkeep spells and what have you. What do trolls have as a counter-magic model/unit? I found 2 that rhyme the Thrullg and Mulg, but the Thrullg is a little laser focused. Mulg doesn't cancel out upkeep spells, but does prevent them from being cast.

Is the achilles heel of trolls the magic wand?

Thoughts, tips, comments?

Thrullg sucks.

Try to buff your dudes or use pDoomy. Buff stripping isn't really a strong suit for Hordes. We also can have issues with focus campers. Thankfully, Trolls can buff through it.

Warmachine players are spoiled with eEryss.

[Syas]

Tie it up and ignore it. Caster kill. If all else fails, Two-Handed throw doesn't check Armor.

[baronvonchaos]

I like the Thrullg model. He may be nice... I'm not above stabbing my own dude in the back to dispel an enemy upkeep.
I am a little spoiled between Orin Midwinter, pAlexia, eEiryss, and Harlan Versh (plays off of upkeeps), there's quite a few options.

So what do people do when you have an ARM 24 Centurion or ARM 25 Devastator? Fury on the Mauler gives it 19's, which is dice -5 or -6. Average of 1-2 damage per hit. Taking out the shield and Arcane Shield makes him straight dice. The Devastator?

[omerplata]

Two-handed throw. Try to get it out of the casters control area, or far enough away that it wont be able to threaten. Shield locks are also another method to reduce the arm of a model with a shield. Walk up to it, shield lock, then pound away with bought attacks.

[razcalking]

The troll mantra, right there.

I'm looking ahead too for things like Crippling Grasp on a unit of Champs makes them horribly slow. Being able to nullify that is greatly needed.

Jarl has Quicken for a counter-buff to the slowing effects, at least.

[PG_joedj]

pDoomie and Thrullg.
That's it.

But I'm fine with the difficulty in removing de-buffs, signature upkeeps/spells of other opposing factions. Seems wrong to fully negate their game.
Means I have to play around it. Making sure my eggs aren't all in one de-buffable package.

If I have any one complaint about de-buffs it would be regarding the charging rule: Any de-buffs to SPD = no charge. I'd like it to allow buffs to counter the de-buffs, i.e. +2 SPD buff counters -2 SPD = charge allowed.

[PeregrineP]

Tie it up and ignore it. Caster kill. If all else fails, Two-Handed throw doesn't check Armor.

If I remember right, the only trouble you'll have is if the Centurion sac's his action to polarity shield because it prevents power attacks made against it so I'm not sure you can slam/throw it? Can someone sanity check that?

[Lost Effect]

You got your Mauler in melee with something you cannot crack? Just throw it!
have a warbeast/jack that blocking a charge lane? Just throw it!
Have crazy high def models that you just cannot hit? Just slam your friends into it!
The great troll questions have been answered

[Beckman]

Jarl has Quicken for a counter-buff to the slowing effects, at least.

Just an FYI. If you have Quicken AND a penalty to SPD, no matter how small, they do not offset. You still have a SPD penalty and can't charge.

oops. Beaten to the punch... :-/

[Syas]

If I remember right, the only trouble you'll have is if the Centurion sac's his action to polarity shield because it prevents power attacks made against it so I'm not sure you can slam/throw it? Can someone sanity check that?

I don't have my Cygnar book with me, but I am 99% positive that Polarity Field just prevents charges from the front Arc.

[PeregrineP]

I don't have my Cygnar book with me, but I am 99% positive that Polarity Field just prevents charges from the front Arc.

"Target friendly model/unit cannot be targeted by a charge made by a model in its front arc." is the exact wording.
The Tactical Tips section says: "Remember, if a model cannot charge a target, it also cannot power attack slam the target."

I'm thinking based on that, throws would work.

[Syas]

"Target friendly model/unit cannot be targeted by a charge made by a model in its front arc." is the exact wording.
The Tactical Tips section says: "Remember, if a model cannot charge a target, it also cannot power attack slam the target."

I'm thinking based on that, throws would work.

I would agree.

[PG_Viper114]

In other words, the polarity field just slows down opponents enough that charging and slamming isn't possible. Nothing about it prevents it from being walked up to, picked up and thrown a few meters away.

[PeregrineP]

Yeah, I think it's mostly notable because you can't slam a Polarity shielded Centurion out of a control point.

[Goris]

Generally a PS23 Mulg solves that problem. I am surprised no one has said that. A properly buffed Mulg will annihilate nearly anything in a turn. Other then that the above statements are all for the most part true. It's interesting to me that Cygnar are the ones giving you armor trouble. Obviously that is over simplified, but proper application of power in our faction usually solves most problems for us.

[EvilFuzzyDoom]

Generally a PS23 Mulg solves that problem. I am surprised no one has said that. A properly buffed Mulg will annihilate nearly anything in a turn. Other then that the above statements are all for the most part true. It's interesting to me that Cygnar are the ones giving you armor trouble. Obviously that is over simplified, but proper application of power in our faction usually solves most problems for us.

Yup. The solution is: punch it. If you can't hit it, knock it down and then punch it.

pGrissel can also mob things with double-hitting cabers.

[Goris]

Power attacks are also a very effective way of taking a piece effectively out of the fight for a while or at the very least making it a lot less effective... Slam it or throw it the hell out of the way...

[Beckman]

Generally a PS23 Mulg solves that problem. I am surprised no one has said that. A properly buffed Mulg will annihilate nearly anything in a turn. Other then that the above statements are all for the most part true. It's interesting to me that Cygnar are the ones giving you armor trouble. Obviously that is over simplified, but proper application of power in our faction usually solves most problems for us.

It was generally mentioned that we can buff through armor problems. Mulg falls under that umbrella.

[hmk17]

As also a Cygnar player, I hate seeing the 2H throw against my jacks. (Mainly because only 3 jacks in Cygnar can.)

Scoop it up and toss it at a nice juicy target or just aim for outside it's warcaster's control area to squelch the Shake Off.

[Goris]

It was generally mentioned that we can buff through armor problems. Mulg falls under that umbrella.

I think it bears mentioning that being specific is important. You can buff a Fell Caller and he won't one turn a Jack. Mulg can and will where other fails specifically when the OP said his Mauler failed. Also he might not really know about Mulg or what he can potentially do. So specifics matter. Also, it's not like I was calling you out or anything what was this point in your comment?

[wargrim]

There are also some non-killing ways to deal with the centurion. A centurion with polarity shield isn't that fast, if you slam him with the impaler he needs to shake to remain polarity shielded and advance back into position.
A POW20 Mauler probably won't kill him, but if you use the chain attack to weapon lock him, he does nothing in his next turn. Breaking STR16 isn't easy.

If you lock his shield/ turn him with befuddle, he's now ARM22. If you use both, he can't retaliate in his turn.
Locks are also something that works great against devastators. He can't bulldoze nor use his rain and isn't likely to do serious damage with his meager fists.

[NinjaSpank]

Locks are also something that works great against devastators. He can't bulldoze nor use his rain and isn't likely to do serious damage with his meager fists.

As someone who plays against a lot of Khador players, this is unfortunately untrue. The rules for "Armored Shell" on the Dev specifically says "This models arms cannot be locked". You have to deal with him the old fashioned way.

[wargrim]

Yes, you can't lock the devastators arms, but your able to lock his head. This won't reduce his ARM, but as I said, stop him from bulldozing and raining.

[The Happy Anarchist]

Mulg does it, burying it in cheap medium based infantry while going after the rest of the force/caster does it, or of course pDoomy does it.

Thrullg I don't feel is a viable option - you have to shelter it like a baby and it is only useful in extreme circumstances of extremely high armor with buffs. Maybe in an eMadrak list if you are really concerned about running into that match up I could see it, but it isn't that good outside of that one type of match up.

[PG_Goldstep]

Excepting thinks like Deathjerk who makes his on focus and Nemo 2 who hands it out later two handed throwing a heavy you can't hurt is a great way to remove it from the equation for a while. It works much better on melee jacks, but ranged jacks who need either to aim or boost to be effective feel the pain as well.

Firstly under Rage and the elder warped stone, you are looking at a STR 16 heavy. If you hit and the opposing model has less than 12 STR, you can just call it. "11+6-16+2. I snake eyed and you maxed. I win anyway." Then toss the model 8 inches away from your opponent's warcaster. "Speed 4 with reach!" Watch the humor as the Centurion can't get a focus, so he has to stand us and walk and hope I left something within 6 inches. "Upkeep Arcane Shield. You don't want that thing to get hurt while I fling it about like a ragdoll."

It gets harder every time it works because, well, it's ready devastating and people start to plan against it, but using the mauler's chain attack to 2h-throw pretty much takes 1 heavy out of the game as long as you can afford the focus for Rage.

[Falcon42]

As a Cygnar player, what I'd do is pick the sucker up and throw him outta caster control range.

[Sardonic Artery]

As a Cygnar player, I can tell you I only run the Centurion when I can speed it up (eHaley bond, Nemo movement shenanigans, etc.), so it's never that slow.

Thrullg sucks.

Try to buff your dudes or use pDoomy. Buff stripping isn't really a strong suit for Hordes. We also can have issues with focus campers. Thankfully, Trolls can buff through it.

Warmachine players are spoiled with eEryss.

You can't buff your way past crippling grasp.

[Beckman]

I think it bears mentioning that being specific is important. You can buff a Fell Caller and he won't one turn a Jack. Mulg can and will where other fails specifically when the OP said his Mauler failed. Also he might not really know about Mulg or what he can potentially do. So specifics matter. Also, it's not like I was calling you out or anything what was this point in your comment?

If someone has enough knowledge about basic game mechanics to understand what ARM is.. they should understand that they need a STR buff and the highest P+S weapon they can find.

Mulg is the, "Apply more banes." of the armor problem: omnipresent and inescapable. I was trying to go one thread without bring it up. Too late.

You can't buff your way past crippling grasp.

Just an FYI. If you have Quicken AND a penalty to SPD, no matter how small, they do not offset. You still have a SPD penalty and can't charge.

I thought I said that? Crippling Grasp iand Defensive upkeeps are both good reasons to run pDoomy...

Edit: I see where the confusion was, I said, "Buff through it" I meant armor problems, not Crippling Grasp. Jarl's buff got suggested as an answer to crippling grasp later.

[Beckman]

Double Post, Woohoo!

[PG_machine007]

You have a few options:

Kill it: Its been said enough, I think.

Ignore it: Through a couple kriels to engage it and make sure it doesn't do anything. This will depend on the rest of the list though.

Get it out of the way: Throws, slams (From the back), push, chain attack grab and smash, etc.

Get around it: Thrullg, Pdoomy for upkeep removal. Shield Lock it with Rage up. Going to be hard for him to break a lock with a STR 15 Mauler next to him (For example).

Assume the position: If you have no way of dealing with it, then you can bait him with a charge, etc. This will depend on the matchup, but just have something ready to charge back at him. Preferably from different angles so that you can attack from the back if able.

Pretty much the standard 5 D's of Dodgeball when dealing with heavy targets, no matter the faction. Responses for each faction may vary .