What about the Artificer?

[Thamarite Merc]

I totally dig the mini, and the card text doesn't look so bad, but I don't see him mentioned on the forum. Who has any experience with him? He is medium sized, so he will probably need a jack to hide behind from dedicated shooting, but Force Wall can't be all bad to protect some mage hunters....

[joelker41]

Use him all the time. Him + Discordia means your caster is REALLY hard to kill. I use him to protect my myrmidons, 16 defense on a hill is awesome.

[Demeritus]

I have used him before, and enjoy him. He is good in some lists/situations but not all as he does have some problems. He can definitely help out with protecting some models but his speed does hamper him a lot of times. His magic ability being 6 hurts a bit but he has 2 spells that are in between his nuke as well as force wall. He is a toolbox/utility solo and does have his uses he just won't be included in all lists. I do like him and use him though, but the main reasons he isn't mentioned much is his speed while average can be a bit slow for this faction and magic ability 6.

[Axelle]

I kinda want to see the Nyss Hunters under Force Wall, while buffed by Ossyan's Quicken.. def19 blast immune Nyss Hunters =))

but sadly, the Artificer's too slow to catch up w/ the nyss hunters, and it can be targeted being a medium based model

[TIEActor]

he's ok with rahn being as feat is just one more boosted magical pew pew. I also tend to take him with kalyessa so his feild can buff her def against range being as I never have her remotley close to the front. He's ok for what he does but kinda easy to kill

[Mastershake]

I kinda want to see the Nyss Hunters under Force Wall, while buffed by Ossyan's Quicken.. def19 blast immune Nyss Hunters =))

but sadly, the Artificer's too slow to catch up w/ the nyss hunters, and it can be targeted being a medium based model

The mild irony with the model, enemies it matters against can just kill him.

If you need blast damage immunity Discordia can do it and run and you wont lose the ability until they eat all 32 of her hit boxes.

His magic attack does have nice damage and some decent positioning ability, but it's hard to justify him over a magister who's generally more useful (and costs less and can be hidden behind small bases).

[PG_Dawnlord Ed]

The mild irony with the model, enemies it matters against can just kill him.

If you need blast damage immunity Discordia can do it and run and you wont lose the ability until they eat all 32 of her hit boxes.

His magic attack does have nice damage and some decent positioning ability, but it's hard to justify him over a magister who's generally more useful (and costs less and can be hidden behind small bases).

and also Magic Ability [6]. Bleh. Just not a three-point model at the end of the day.

[NEoJoe]

I think he's definitely three points. He's just not top-tier for that point slot. I'm not going through all the hoops of explaining him, but I don't think anyone's mentioned his melee game. It's ancillary, but after a grind he comes out swinging pretty well.

The first few posts really got it right by explaining that he's not for every list. But he's definitely worth it when a list calls for him.

[Syfer22]

One of the things I personally found odd was that he didn't have anything like Combo Smite that the Magister has. His mitts are bigger; it seemed like it wouldn't be entirely out of place.

[rwould]

I like him but at 3 points he is a stretch. His Magic Ability of 6 should be a 7 imho and his movement of 5 means he struggles to keep up with things.

But what he does is he can provide two benefits. The main one is he makes Myrmidons DEF 14 vs shooting. As he can be sat behind said Myrmidon (and has good defensive stats) he is not that easy to take out and if against a ranged opponent that DEF 14 makes the Myrmidons very durable against ranged attacks.

Secondly he can block charge paths well with Polarity Field. This works very well if using Rahn as between him and a Myrmidon with Polarity Shield then when combined with terrain it can block charges off for a large area.

His shooting attack sometimes can be useful to create charge angles/paths but to be honest he tends to use the above or melee.

Works best with Rahn unsurprisingly, ignoring the magic boost on feat he gets TK to speed him up (meaning on turn one he can advance and still cover the Myrmidons with Force Barrier) and he gets to combine for the large charge path blocking.

[Xarian]

I see him as a companion/vanguard for Halberdiers and Sentinels. Shield/block, then charge alongside them with his fairly high POW attacks.

Magno Blast has quite a few interesting uses but is not very reliable due to his crappy Magic Ability.

Not worth 3 points though, not at all. Maybe 2.5 points. Give him a +1 SPD and +1 Magic Ability and he'd probably be worth the 3 points. As it stands though, he's a typical "jack of no trades" model who is over-generalized into having no niche at all.

[joelker41]

There are virtually no models in this game at 3 points that do as many things as he does. He:

1) Has Pathfinder - Not much in the faction does outside of Mage hunters.

2) Has 17 ARM and 8 Health. No model that is 3 points is more durable that isn't a Jack or lesser warbeast.

3) He has 2 MAT 7 POW 13 fists. With beat back.

4) Is one of the few medium bases we do have. I repeatedly run him in front of my caster to stop trampling assassination runs.

5) Can run first turn like everything else. I never once have had an issue with his speed.

6) Besides Discordia is one of the few blast immunity hand outs in the faction.

7) Gives our chronically low Def vs Shooting Casters like Ossyan an incredible amount of survivability.

8) I generally feel if you are magnolia blasting you are going it wrong. Having him protect arcanists, casters, sylys, and buff Myrmidons vs shooting is a MUCH better use of his activation.

9) With Polarity Shield he can make himself very difficult to remove from control zones vs non-shooting lists. Trolls, Cryx, and some skorne lists prefer to beat face in melee.



He really isn't that bad. For 3 points I really do like and use him in tournament lists. He was a big reason why I could tough out a close game vs many shooting lists that I fought at L&L. I will gladly play 1 more point for 5 higher armor and 3 more health over a Magister.

[NEoJoe]

Comparing this guy to a Magister is like comparing Gerlak to the Warwitch Siren. They're not even remotely intended for similar roles. They're both wizardy guys and they have hoods. The similarities end there.

The guy is similar in role to a Bull Snapper or Journey Warcaster. He's a 3 point tech that helps us keep stuff alive. He usually protects back row stuff from things that threaten back row stuff. This includes, more often than not, your 'caster. On top of that, he has other parlor tricks that help out in various situations. Magno Blast is one of them. You target 'jacks with Magno Blast. You Polarity Shield when you need to contest better. You punch when you need guys dead or stuff moved. He is three points. If you deflect a few bullets and kill two warrior models with him, then he dies, he did an exemplary job. Sometimes he dies before any of that, but that happens to everything.

My biggest problem with him is that his protection is, unfortunately, rather narrow. If your opponent does not have guns, he's going to struggle to be meaningful. If your opponent only has guns that threaten your front line, he's going to struggle to be meaningful unless something weird helps him. He'll really shine if the opponent can threaten the stuff he wants to protect with the stuff he can protect against.

I'm wondering if he'll be pretty cool with Hyperion and Quicken.

[PhoenixBlaze]

A quick note, Trollkin Hero has 10 damage at ARM 16 and of course it can easily be ARM 18 and is a weapon master POW 12 (I think) Threshing combat beast.

But yes, the Artificer carries with him a lot of rules and abilities, something quite common for us.

I've wanted to use him but every time I build a list I just find something else to take. Maybe I'll need to sacrifice something instead to put him in next time. He does seem to be a good buffing solo for our defences and should be seen that way rather than another magic attack for Rahn's feat.

[Xarian]

The problem I have is that, while he can do all that stuff that you mentioned, he can only do one of it in any given turn. Block a charge lane? ok. Protect infantry from blasts? ok. Both? Nope, can't do that. Same goes with the magic attacks. He has a total of 5 different things that he can do in any given turn, but they aren't orthogonal - in other words, you are going to want to do multiple things. This is opposed to Discordia, who can protect from blasts while also using its weapons or being a roadblock.

Also, the blast immunity only applies while the Artificer is in play. All they have to do is kill him and it goes away immediately. Because of the medium base, it's difficult to block LOS to the Artificer. And 17 ARM, 8 boxes isn't that difficult to remove.

He tries to be 2-3 models in one - a utility mage, a melee beater, and a roadblock/tank. He only has one activation to do it in, however, which means that inevitably you're paying points for the roles that he's not performing.

[Murkhadh]

I'm on the don't like him for 3 points side of this one.
He IS a lot like the magister they are more alike than different. They both have two melee attacks and ranged magic spells. One shuffles things around with directed slams (a rare thing) and one through a magic attack.


Everytime I tried to use him to keep things safe from blast damage or shield a caster, he just gets shoot and killed, he's not durable enough for these roles in my experience.

Not being durable enough for those rules brings him back down to magister usefulness, except the magister has higher magic ability and does those better and for 1 less point.

[FranzGrenstein]

He is over costed by at least a point. His speed is low, his magic is low, and every ability he has is a *action.

If you take on just that the flying mittens is pretty lackluster.

I like him, I use him as "don't kill my MH" duty. He does is job pretty good. He is not as fragile as you thing, everything dies in this game it just depends how many resources you want to devote to killing it; just going to point this out He has the same armor and wounds as Tartersauce, I think he has more armor and same wounds as an agonizer (that sucker is a PITA to kill.)

Don't diminish the magic pew pew, pow 13 and the ability to reposition 2" around the target.

I really like the guy.

[joelker41]

The problem I have is that, while he can do all that stuff that you mentioned, he can only do one of it in any given turn. Block a charge lane? ok. Protect infantry from blasts? ok. Both? Nope, can't do that. Same goes with the magic attacks. He has a total of 5 different things that he can do in any given turn, but they aren't orthogonal - in other words, you are going to want to do multiple things. This is opposed to Discordia, who can protect from blasts while also using its weapons or being a roadblock.

Also, the blast immunity only applies while the Artificer is in play. All they have to do is kill him and it goes away immediately. Because of the medium base, it's difficult to block LOS to the Artificer. And 17 ARM, 8 boxes isn't that difficult to remove.

He tries to be 2-3 models in one - a utility mage, a melee beater, and a roadblock/tank. He only has one activation to do it in, however, which means that inevitably you're paying points for the roles that he's not performing.

LOL really?

You are saying the flaw of a 3 point non-character solo is that he doesn't have the ability to multi-task like a 10 point character Jack? That just makes your argument against him make much less sense to me.

Last time I checked Gorman, Magister, Warwitch Siren, pEiryss, Choir, Aiyana, Arcanists, etc can all only do 1 of their cool things per turn. Are they bad because of it?

[Thamarite Merc]

I don't really feel, that the comparison with Discordia is remotely fair. Thats a 10 point jack, competing for a slot with the Phoenix and the Banshee.

Pointswise an Artificer walking behind a Sphinx would match, which looks like a reasonable combo, as the two models seem to have some synergies. They share the same speed, the Rune Cannon helps with the blast, the Artificer can hide behind a broad back with a feisty reach attack, while he can buff the Sphynx DEF vs shooting and provide some assistance in battlefield control/effective threat range prior to melee.

I haven't tried it yet, cause I am a miser and want to hear a second opinion wether this might work, before I shell out the dough. A clear pro would be, that I really like the look of both minis.

[joelker41]

I use the bubble on the artificer to brick up the whole battlegroup. If you are running a caster like Kaelyssa with 2-3 heavies and have Disco pop her imprint then he follows behind with Kaelyssa by him. Everyone ignores blasts, Kaelyssa has +2 DEF/ARM vs Shooting, and Witch Hound makes spells a really bad idea.

[Xarian]

The flaw of the model is that he cannot multitask at all. The comparison to Discordia was purely due to the similarity in their abilities to grant blast immunity.

How about we compare the Artificer to the Satyxis Sea Witch? Sea Witch grants Force Barrier, same as Artificer, to similar targets (low ARM stealthed models). The Sea Witch always has this ability, and can attack and use its Power Swell at the same time while also granting Pathfinder to its unit. The Artificer, on the other hand, also has some magic attacks that it can make in lieu of granting Force Barrier, or it can get Polarity Shield. It is also harder to kill (better stats), and can apply its abilities to models other than the one designated unit.

He has a lot of good abilities. The problem is that he can only use one at a time. So he has Polarity Shield - but this means that he won't be able to use Force Wall. So if your opponent happens to have blast damage and a charge threat, he's now diminished in his ability to protect your models. This goes even further if your opponent has blast damage and a charge threat and something that you'd really really like to cast Magno Blast on or charge. Yeah, it's nice to have choices about what you can and can't do - but what is the Artificer doing to actually earn his points?

@Thamarite: why not use a unit of Battle Mages with your Sphinx instead? 2 more points, a lot more crowd control, and a higher melee threat.

[rwould]

He suffers from Spd 5 on an ability you want to use when everything is running. But points wise it is a difficult call. If he was 2 points he would be better than a Magister who I think is a pretty good solo for 2 points. I think the earlier point of him being worth 2.5 is about right, 3 is a reach in a faction with excellent solo choices.

[Murkhadh]

LOL really?

You are saying the flaw of a 3 point non-character solo is that he doesn't have the ability to multi-task like a 10 point character Jack? That just makes your argument against him make much less sense to me.

Last time I checked Gorman, Magister, Warwitch Siren, pEiryss, Choir, Aiyana, Arcanists, etc can all only do 1 of their cool things per turn. Are they bad because of it?

Eiryss can shoot a caster and knock all of the focus off while within 5 of some jacks to prevent allocation

[joelker41]

Eiryss can shoot a caster and knock all of the focus off while within 5 of some jacks to prevent allocation

I could point out that I said pEiryss and that eEiryss is a top 5 solo in the whole game.

Let's not cloud the issue with details....

[CaladanCid]

I try to use the Artificer frequently bc I like the look and I have not been disappointed in his performance. Although his magic skill is low, he makes up for it with barrier and his pretty decent combat ability. Would I send him in the first wave? Never. He usually sits near my Stormfalls to stop mortars or other blasts, then charges anything that comes close or moves in if nothing is threatening whichever flank he is guarding.

Why would you compare him and Discordia? Yes they both block damage, but wow thats a stretch. I am not entirely convinced he is worth a full 3 pts, but he comes close and with the MkII points compression you have to roll with that outcome sometimes.

I am curious how much actual table time people who hate him have using the model versus theorycrafting.

[Mavwick]

Face it, we're an infantry-heavy army with low synergy. This guy makes some of those lists click. Even Halberdiers seem really formidable. It's not about performance, it's synergy when we have few options. Why not Discordia? Why not both? I love the pair with Ossyan for a load of ranged denial.

A few odd points:
-3 points buys much better solos for us. 2 points does, as well. None of them can take a hit. Some of them barely survive blast damage. The Artificer is the only non-Warjack model to bring along that can take a hit.
-Safety net. Tramples can kill. Not the infantry, but that Warcaster who seemed safe; especially when it's someone like Garryth or Ossyan who needs to be closer to the front. You can't trample through a medium-based model and this model can also screen and protect the Warcaster from Ranged attacks.
-They're kind of hilarious with Epic Vyros. Not only does he appreciate the above safety net, but they get to take their anti-ranged bubble to wherever the shooting happens on his feat turn.

Lists of mine that almost always have an Artificer:
-Garryth: Needs the protection. Brings lots of infantry. Easier to fit at 50 than 35.
-Ossyan: Same as above. Compounds well to bring a lot of anti-shooting to a list.
-eVyros: Only theory so far, but a large-based 'caster wants some protection.

Who doesn't need it?
-Surprisingly, Rahn. Spend the points on other solos, even the cheaper Magister, or upgrade two points for a full unit of magic attacks. I was miffed they weren't included in his theme list until I kept testing them and finding out there's a lot of better ways to spend 3 points with Rahn. (Naaaarn.)

[joelker41]

Him with eVyros and Discordia and you are easily one of the hardest things to kill at range in the whole game.

[Thamarite Merc]

@Thamarite: why not use a unit of Battle Mages with your Sphinx instead? 2 more points, a lot more crowd control, and a higher melee threat.

Well, if I walk up a zone of blast protection over the battlefield, be it Discordia or be it Artificer & Sphinx, then I want some hi-def squishies around to benefit from that as well.
Battle Mages could be one of the choices for that, Mage or Nyss Hunters, A&H or some solos would be the other alternatives. The Artificer would buff the DEF of the Jack and make sure, it can't be used for homing in blasts.

Fire and Electricity would still hurt, as well as non-blast AoEs, but blast, normal shooting, offensive spells and spray templates would be pretty obstructed by high DEF and blast immunity.

Only the Battle Mages without the Artificer can support a jack, and would benefit from the rune cannon, but they can't hide all of them behind one model, and, if its not Discordia, being too close to it would even compromise their DEF.

Now, an ArtiSphinx PLUS a unit of Battle Mages within 3"....

[seraphius]

I almost always field the artificer in my Ravyn list.

And i also have discorida in the same list witch gives me (with the right space) a 10-12 " aoe free zone,

discordia is often up and running with the MHSF and nyss hunters while the artifcer brings up the rear with my 2x stormfalls that he can keep pace with and ravyn, in between thoose you`ll find A&h.

The artificer helps my Stormfall to not fall prey ot thoose aoe/s that can deviate and helps them vs sniper that get to close for comfort and he is himself already at good def vs range, but when i also have ravyn around he get the benfit of veil that adds 2 more def for some juicy defence .

Later ion in games i can use him to clear lanes, shoot disco in the back if she get`s bogged down and push things of.

For 3 points i am very happy with the Artificer , only other model i would bring is narn, but as i usually run both skerryth and atleast one assassin i feel thta would be overkill.

Played a game last night vs khador with two!! conquests, and the combo of discordia and artificer saved my army from aoe death so many times during that game.

well worth the points in tourney play to have a rounded list since you don`t know if you`ll be playing shooty lists or not

[Kalki]

Well, if I walk up a zone of blast protection over the battlefield, be it Discordia or be it Artificer & Sphinx, then I want some hi-def squishies around to benefit from that as well.
Battle Mages could be one of the choices for that, Mage or Nyss Hunters, A&H or some solos would be the other alternatives. The Artificer would buff the DEF of the Jack and make sure, it can't be used for homing in blasts.

Fire and Electricity would still hurt, as well as non-blast AoEs, but blast, normal shooting, offensive spells and spray templates would be pretty obstructed by high DEF and blast immunity.

Only the Battle Mages without the Artificer can support a jack, and would benefit from the rune cannon, but they can't hide all of them behind one model, and, if its not Discordia, being too close to it would even compromise their DEF.

Now, an ArtiSphinx PLUS a unit of Battle Mages within 3"....

Valid point about fire and electricity, you do know that the mages already have force barrier right?

I'm tempted to get the artificer myself, really love the model and have no problem with only benefitting from one ability per turn but magic ability 6 on a 3 point solo seems a bit lackluster even if he's more of a support solo. Having him guard your caster or myrmidons or backline of stormfalls seems like a useful idea.

Nice one on that khador game seraphius

[Serberk]

I sumply use it at low point games as objective contester, for 3 points i get a model that is fairly hard to kill, at the very least it will take about 3 times his cost in enemy resources to be dealt with (a unit CRA/CMA, a jack/beast or 2-3 weaponmasters, the last is the only one in wich i'm probably on par about resources invested in this deal) and in a pinch it can still do some melee beating on lights. In higher points games it just gets dust on my shelves tbh.

[Xarian]

Now, an ArtiSphinx PLUS a unit of Battle Mages within 3"....

Battle Mages already have Force Barrier. There's no reason for the Artificer to support them at all.

See why I suggested Sphinx + Battle Mages? The Sphinx certainly doesn't care about Blast damage...

[FranzGrenstein]

Going to point, magno blast netted me a win pushing the target out of the krea's animus.

[Cyryst]

this guy covers my solos and sets up surgical attacks for me.
Normally hes just hunking around the back putting stopping the late game mage hunter or eyriss from dieing. But several times he has pulled of game changing or winning shots with magno blast.
For example, hitting a nearby jack and pulling the warcaser b2b for slam knockdown win. Also hitting a jack and pushing the other one in b2b contact away opening up los. Finally in a couple of games hitting a battle engine that a warcaster and his shield guard were sitting next to, pushing the shield guard out of its effective range to its target, letting me momentum cannon the warcaster into the BE.

He doesnt make every single list but he is definitely worth the 3 points imo, I have never had him felled in one turn of shooting, or from a single big shot. You get some blast immunity, golden, def bonus vs ranged, fantastic and a ghetto TK. ok you gotta think outside the square to use it like that, but it works.
Normally he covers infantry early game, shifting to cover other support and mid game solo's in mid game, late game hes an enabler with beatback and magnoblast. Solid 3pt mini.

[Tol]

He'd be more useable if his Blast Immunity was automatic, and he could still do ANYTHING else in the turn that you spent 3 points to protect other stuff.

He doesn't fit our glass cannon mentality, and that's why I don't like him. I'd rather have a Mage Hunter Assassin and an Arcanist than the one Artificer any day.

I win games by doing so much damage to my opponent that by the time the game actually starts and we're actually engaged he is missing enough that it won't matter and I can dine on the flesh of his children.

The Artificer is 3 points invested in MAYBE doing stuff, and in many games where I've used him I've had him just sit there because his situational values were either too predictable or not in range.

I'd rather spend those 3 points on things that I KNOW will do what I brought them to do. Like pEiryss, etc.


WHAT MATTERS HERE MOST - Is that he is a BAD *** looking model and I bought him and started painting him but as I used him in games, I became disenfranchised with him and stopped including him in my lists. I was sad. He is an AMAZING looking model. Especially on the Mystic Base I put him on, he looks like he just landed and blasted one of those mystic gear dealies to ****. It's great.

I wish I could justify using him, but we have so much that suits my aggressive playstyle that I don't feel he helps me "play like I've got a pair".

He more accurately lets me play like "OH OW NOT IN THE FACE!".

[joelker41]

If you are primarily a Rahn player though odds are you aren't using the Guy a ton anyways. I think he is best covering Kaelyssa and Ossyan's butts LOL.

[Tol]

If you are primarily a Rahn player though odds are you aren't using the Guy a ton anyways. I think he is best covering Kaelyssa and Ossyan's butts LOL.

Yea, I originally bought him because I loved the model and expected him to be a great compliment to Rahn's team of Mages. I get more play out of the Magisters, and in general stopped using the Battle Mages as a front line unit vs. using them as cleanup on whatever the Sentinels failed to kill. I've been a much happier camper since then, much to the frustration of my opponents.

I can see how he'd be a helpful "mini Rahn" for lists that don't have that kind of movement shenanigans.

[ucfan34]

I started working on an Artificer tactica, and never got around to finishing it. This thread pretty much covers the meat & potatoes of it, but does anyone think it would be worth finishing?

[NEoJoe]

I started working on an Artificer tactica, and never got around to finishing it. This thread pretty much covers the meat & potatoes of it, but does anyone think it would be worth finishing?

Yes. And probably link to this or another relevant discussion. I would like the Council to be entirely fleshed out.

[Demeritus]

I started working on an Artificer tactica, and never got around to finishing it. This thread pretty much covers the meat & potatoes of it, but does anyone think it would be worth finishing?

Go ahead and finish it, more tacticas are never a bad thing and it gives newer players more to think about as well as existing players. I was debating writing one myself as well.