First Units for a new trollblood

[rahal777]

I've been a long time protectorate player but recently started forraying into Hordes and have a small contingent of Trolls, I have a couple of casters (pMadrak, and eDoomy) and all of the beasts I'm interested in, minus the storm troll when it comes out, but now I'm thinking about Units. I'm looking at the Champs, and Scouts. I also briefly considered the runeshapers, but pretty much because I already have Janissa. Any advice for a new troll player on where to start? I'm thinking about two units total, as I'm not trying to have it spin out of control like my Menoth habit.

[Syas]

Fennblades + UA. Cheap, and the work well with every caster.

In my not even remotely experienced opinion, Fennblades + UA are a must own. They are not auto include, but I have never regretted spending the money on them.

[Beckman]

Fennblades + UA. Cheap, and the work well with every caster.

In my not even remotely experienced opinion, Fennblades + UA are a must own. They are not auto include, but I have never regretted spending the money on them.

This. 10 chars.

[Adept Rahn]

Fennblades + UA. Cheap, and the work well with every caster.

In my not even remotely experienced opinion, Fennblades + UA are a must own. They are not auto include, but I have never regretted spending the money on them.

Yep best choice.

[PG_Viper114]

Fennblades first. After them, a unit of Champs + Skaldi is good. Scouts are also decent, but get them later. A full Kriel Warrior unit with UA and weapons is also decent, but get them later too. Start with the Fennblades first and the Champs next.

[rahal777]

Any thoughts on a secondary unit?

Posted the question and PG_Viper had already answered it. Thanks

[Mountain King]

First I would like to say, I don't think Fennblades are a must own. Mine have hardly hit the table at all, Fenns maybe make 20% of my lists or less. I prefer KW's over Fenns and would easily get them prior to Fennblades.

I also would highly recommend against getting Champions for your second unit. For the same point investment you can get Full Long Riders + Horthol. Which is a superior unit in every way compared to Champions. Again I think Champions only make 1 list for me and that is Borka's Family Reunion list, otherwise Longriders fill that spot every time.

[razcalking]

I'd go with Fennblades over Kriel Warriors. Fennblades are better at tying up units (faster SPD), blocking lanes (Reach) and harassing them once they get there (Vengeance). They are also far, far easier on the pocketbook and plastic.

I don't see a great deal of difference between Champs and Long Riders. Champs are slower and don't have Impact Attacks w/knockdown, but hit harder (Weapon Master) and you get more of them. Against jack/beast heavy lists I'd take Champs over Riders, and my favourite caster (Jarl) fixes the SPD issue with Champs.

[Jota]

Fennblades + UA is solid.
I would also suggest Burrowers. Sure, they are not for every list but they are cheap both in points and in cash. Fellcaller is a must though. Burrowers add a layer of unpredictability to the Trolls that are hard to achieve otherwise. I do not use Champs much, I can not recommend them.

I have not got KW+package yet due to the cost in cash, otherwise I think they are a great unit that would see a lot of table time.

[rahal777]

Alright, Fennblades + UA it is. I'm glad I asked, they had completely passed me buy on my cursory looks through the book, thanks all.

[skurkious]

I think every list I've ever had sans tooth and claw games has either had Fennblades or Champions as there backbone. I hear all the love for Kriel Warrior but for the $cost I just haven't got around to getting them yet. I don't know how I'd feel about giving up reach and vengeance though.

[jdripley]

I've got to put my weight behind Kriel Warriors before Fennblades. Fenns are a fantastic unit, to be sure, but Kriel Warriors are more versatile, and to me that adds plenty of value.

Because you've got to look at the whole picture:

Fenn + UA = 10 points.
Kriel + UA + 3 WA = 11 points. Pretty even, especially since you can just knock off one Caber from the Kriel Warrior unit to make it exactly even.

Without buffs from outside either unit:

Fenns have a natural speed/reach advantage, and Vengeance gives them the *chance* of getting some extra movement and attacks. "Chance" because sometimes they're already where you need them, and sometimes you're too far away to get the extra attacks.
Kriels have the ability to *either* move faster or attack more accurately - not both at the same time. Kriels have Combined Melee Attack which makes them capable of dealing with high armor - something Fenns struggle with.

Fenns UA makes them a monster on the charge giving them an offensive edge.
Kriel UA gives them a defensive edge.
Kriel WA gives them a handy knock down effect and some extra bodies over Fennblades.


Any buff that the Fenns can get the Kriel Warriors can get, so those arguments are hollow.


My advice: If you're trying to save some cash, buy Fennblades with or without the UA. If you have cash to spare and want a more versatile unit, buy the Kriel Warriors, with or without all of the attachment stuff. In the end I think full Kriels plus attachments is the better unit because they can do what Fenns do nearly as well as Fenns do, plus they can do other stuff better.

re: Champions and Scouts:
Scouts aren't really a core unit, so don't go for them first. They're pretty cheap for what they do, and they're a great unit, but you can't build a list around them like you could for Kriels or Fenns. Champions are rock solid but aren't indestructible, so for their cost it's tough to have them as your only unit. Also with only 5 models, I find it hard to screen your important models behind Champions.

[Mountain King]

I'd go with Fennblades over Kriel Warriors. Fennblades are better at tying up units (faster SPD), blocking lanes (Reach) and harassing them once they get there (Vengeance). They are also far, far easier on the pocketbook and plastic.

I don't see a great deal of difference between Champs and Long Riders. Champs are slower and don't have Impact Attacks w/knockdown, but hit harder (Weapon Master) and you get more of them. Against jack/beast heavy lists I'd take Champs over Riders, and my favourite caster (Jarl) fixes the SPD issue with Champs.

Long riders have a 12" threat + Reach all the time with 2 attacks.
Champions have an 8.5" threat with 2 attacks.
12" threat > 8.5" threat.
They both ahve the same number of attacks.
POW 11 Weapon master is equal to POW 14 attacks. Avg roll on a die is 3.5, you get one extra die which equates to +3 dmg. Long Riders have 3 base higher POW than Champions.
Long Riders can slam models and have crit KD on their mounts, Champs can not do either of those things.
Long Riders have impact attacks, which generate more attacks per model than champions can ever hope to achieve.

[Syas]

I am on the FB side of the debate, but I think we are really comparing apples to apples, one is red, one is green. That said, I think you underestimate Vengence.

There is nothing sweeter than dirt-napping something (or, god-forbid, 11 things) from 14" away. I have had a lot of opponents underestimate the Vengence + Mini-Feat charge on the FBs.

[DogFog]

Fenns have Combined Melee Attack which makes them capable of dealing with high armor - something Fenns struggle with.

I think you mean Kriels have CMA.

[Syas]

Long riders have a 12" threat + Reach all the time with 2 attacks.
Champions have an 8.5" threat with 2 attacks.
12" threat > 8.5" threat.
They both ahve the same number of attacks.
POW 11 Weapon master is equal to POW 14 attacks. Avg roll on a die is 3.5, you get one extra die which equates to +3 dmg. Long Riders have 3 base higher POW than Champions.
Long Riders can slam models and have crit KD on their mounts, Champs can not do either of those things.
Long Riders have impact attacks, which generate more attacks per model than champions can ever hope to achieve.

To be fair though, you have to assume Skaldi and the Hero/Horthol are in play; so the Champs snag Overtake, Relentless Charge, and can move through each other/do not block LOS for each other and Riders get Follow-up and Linebreaker.

Riders are also large base. While the Riders make more sense for the points on paper, I find that in practice I bring more Champions to bear because of the Tactician bonus from the Hero, and Medium bases. I like Relentless Charge as well because then I don't need to sing Pathfinder at them.

[Impostor]

Hey, how about burrowers? Cheap as hell, they kick ***, they frustrate the hell out of the opponent and are generally awesome.

Everybody seems to be forgetting them lately. Myself, i'd consider them even before getting the champions.

[jdripley]

I do mean Kriels, thanks for catching that. I've edited my post

[skurkious]

Long riders have a 12" threat + Reach all the time with 2 attacks.
Champions have an 8.5" threat with 2 attacks.
12" threat > 8.5" threat.
They both ahve the same number of attacks.
POW 11 Weapon master is equal to POW 14 attacks. Avg roll on a die is 3.5, you get one extra die which equates to +3 dmg. Long Riders have 3 base higher POW than Champions.
Long Riders can slam models and have crit KD on their mounts, Champs can not do either of those things.
Long Riders have impact attacks, which generate more attacks per model than champions can ever hope to achieve.

Pow 14 on the mount with pow 12 on the war axe.

[razcalking]

Long riders have a 12" threat + Reach all the time with 2 attacks.
Champions have an 8.5" threat with 2 attacks.
12" threat > 8.5" threat.
They both ahve the same number of attacks.
POW 11 Weapon master is equal to POW 14 attacks. Avg roll on a die is 3.5, you get one extra die which equates to +3 dmg. Long Riders have 3 base higher POW than Champions.
Long Riders can slam models and have crit KD on their mounts, Champs can not do either of those things.
Long Riders have impact attacks, which generate more attacks per model than champions can ever hope to achieve.

Champs with Quicken have 10.5" threat range. I know that you can add the same to the Riders with Quicken but that takes them to "way too far ahead of the rest of my army" speed.
Riders only get POW 14 on the charge; POW 12 the rest of the time. Once engaged the Champs hit harder. And 3.5 is only 3 half of the time, the other half it's 4.
I don't know how impact attacks generate "more attacks per model than champions" when you have to include them to even equal the amount of attacks that Champs have.

[PG_thegreatblah]

The Trollblood Toolbox~Where to Start. by PG_thegreatblah
Trollbood Toolbox visual companion at The Scrum. by Celedor

[Mountain King]

Long Rider get POW 14 on the charge, learn your rules guys.

@Syas I already took all of that into account, Right instead of giving them pathfinder you have to give them +2 mat. Long riders get that for being cavalry, they also have tall in the saddle. Which allows them to attack back ranks of models.

I challenge you to take long riders in place of any place you would take champions. I am willing to bet you will find that long Rider out perform Champions every time.

[DogFog]

Hey, how about burrowers? Cheap as hell, they kick ***, they frustrate the hell out of the opponent and are generally awesome.

Everybody seems to be forgetting them lately. Myself, i'd consider them even before getting the champions.

Burrowers are going to be my second unit when they come into my FLGS. Very much looking forward to wreaking some havoc :-)