Do people actually play the Testament?

[SteakAndSpirits]

...Whenever I'm flipping through my Forces of Warmachine: Protectorate of Menoth book, I always pause at the Testament and marvel at what a cool looking d00d he is. I'm drawn to the themeatic appeal. And then I read his rules for the nth time, and softly shake my head.

I just don't get it.

Does anyone actually /play/ this guy? Why would you? Seems like such a waste.

Or am I just really missing something?

-s&s

[regleant]

His feat is really, really good for assassination... I've been planning on making a list with him for a while, now, but I've been having too much fun with Thyra and Kreoss2. I will probably get to Kr3oss before I get to Testament.

Other than his crap for control area, what is it that you dislike about him?

[ChristianAas]

He's all about revive and make good use of Knights and Vengers. Even Idrians to some extent.

I like him.

[jandrese]

He's an attrition caster with a killer feat. I actually don't pull him out too often because him + Vengers is more or less an autowin if your opponent isn't prepared for it. A lot of people don't own Vengers however, which does put a slight damper on his awesomeness. His big weakness is that he's very squishy and needs to play rather far forward. Games with him tend to be on the short side (longer than Amon's typical game, but only by a little) because you're either assassinating, or being assassinated. It is certainly possible to play an attrition game with him, but you have to put a lot of effort into protecting your caster to do that. A Ravyn MHSF force for instance can do him in very easily.

[PG_Nicodemus]

My list is usually daughters, and two units of exemplar, heirophant, and wracks, plus whatever else. I never play the venger assassination card....too easy. I enjoy a real challenge.

[SteakAndSpirits]

He's an attrition caster with a killer feat... ...Games with him tend to be on the short side (longer than Amon's typical game, but only by a little) because you're either assassinating, or being assassinated.

So is he an attrition WC or does he go in straight for the kill? Typically, I use those descriptors as mutually exclusive -- I'm not trying to be smarmy, I just mean that when I look at this guy he doesn't quite click.

Beyond trying to go in for an eLich-Lite feat where you run through everyone's stuff, what's he got going on?

-s&s

[Mod_Gemini]

Beyond trying to go in for an eLich-Lite feat where you run through everyone's stuff, what's he got going on?

He shuts down all soul collection in his control area, for one, which hoses certain opposing casters pretty hard (mostly Terminus). Souls plus revive makes it pretty easy to lose models at a much slower pace than your opponent does. Reviving most of a tarpit every turn (not to mention Vengers/Bastions/Cinerators/Daughters in particularly good spots) means you can erode your opponent's army faster than they might realize.

[PG_KestrelM1]

He's a very solid attrition caster. Revive is incredibly powerful once you get the hang of arranging units such that you never quite lose them completely. With Ashen Veil and something like Rhupert + Covenant or Exemplars/Gravus, he could certainly grind out a game.

I personally don't play him because he has no speed or offensive buff, and IMO Ashen Veil is one of the weakest defensive buffs we have. It's very conditional and a lot of things will ignore it outright. He's very much a sit-back, take a hit, then counter-attack warcaster, and that doesn't really suit my style.

[PG_KuVenet]

Testament is my one of my core casters I use. I think that a lot of people underestimate him until they encounter Vengers under his feat.

[Chaotic_sykotic]

Yeah that's about extent I hear and see in him... Vengers=good. The problem I see, is with revive being expensive, unless your opponent goes on a rampage (spell included o.0) you won't generate enough focus to power jacks and reliably keep the tarpit alive, or keep the vengers alive long enough before they kill them and are unable to be revived anyway.

I like his prime version so much better, at least you can keep stuff alive before you get to your opponent.

[PG_KuVenet]

Welcome the Sanctifier I think that jack will cure the whole focus issue.

[SnakeEyes]

I love running the Testament. Part of it is a holdover from Mk. I where Testament + Vengers + Exploding Cleansers was all I need to win games by either assassination or attrition.

@SteakAndSpirits : He really is both attrition and assassination. His primary playstyle is attrition but he can completely do an assassination if given the opportunity. That's why he's good.

Infantry in his army just will not stay dead. You don't have to worry about defensive buffs like you do with other casters. You can casually toss out buffer infantry to die. 'Cause they're coming back.

Revive lets you do fun tricks like:
Revive in back arc on models to get +2 attack bonus and ignore shields, etc.
Revive a ranged warrior in range of a target model to get the Aim bonus.

He has a SPD buff spell. It's called Revive (placement way up the board of destroyed models).
He has a defensive buff spell. It's called Revive (basically the ultimate def buff since no matter how well they kill a model it doesn't matter).
He has an attack buff spell. It's called Revive (aiming, back strike).

And he's probably just the coolest looking and backstory caster the Protectorate has. So he's got that going for him.

[paradox]

I do. He's got a great feat and some great spells, all as noted above.
I don't think his attrition game is as strong as HR, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have one.

Normally, I play him for assassination, using Revive to help facilitate that. Ashen Veil helps cut down the attrition he will suffer, and Holy Avenger can help keep that attrition game even before he starts Reviving.

I'm no fan of his tier, but that hardly means he's bad or unplayable. Just that his tier is.

I think he's arguably our strongest assassination 'caster. FOC5 makes him a little dicey to play though, so games tend to be very short, one way or the other. He has some hard counters (lots of magic weapins to negate some of the feat benefits, stuff that stops charges), bust what 'caster doesn't?
His soul denial can be a hard counter of his own, and really helps prevent soul-stealing shenanigans.

Basically, he can make Avatar and our other melee beaters incorporeal. That is never a bad thing. And it can be really hard to stop in scenarios that force 'casters up the field.

[Marzuki]

him + Vengers is more or less an autowin

Oh? Do tell. What sort of list would you put together for a pure assassination run? I have 5 Vengers and Gravus just sitting around, waiting to be included in my eKreoss T4 list. Might as well do something with them while I'm budgeting out KE units.

[Raktra]

He's the only Menoth 'caster I run. I'm deluded and think he's top of the pile for the faction.

[Chaotic_sykotic]

Welcome the Sanctifier I think that jack will cure the whole focus issue.

He takes the souls you'll need. And I think (without Testaments card in front me) his own ability stops Sactifier's soul thing

[nyx]

He only stops enemies from doing it.
So if Reclaimers/Sanctifiers are closer, they'll nom up those souls.

And it's not actually bad. You can run Sancty outside his control area and pick up any poor souls that have wandered more than 10" away from Testament

[jandrese]

Oh? Do tell. What sort of list would you put together for a pure assassination run? I have 5 Vengers and Gravus just sitting around, waiting to be included in my eKreoss T4 list. Might as well do something with them while I'm budgeting out KE units.

Well, take the Testament, 5 Vengers, leave Gravus behind and fill out the rest of your points. If a Venger dies, revive it, and once they get within 13" of the enemy caster pop your feat and have them charge at MAT 9, P+S 14 (or 16) incorporeal and ignoring all spell buffs on the enemy caster. You can take Eiryss or eEiryss if you're worried that the enemy caster camping a lot of focus.

This works best in small games where it's less likely that your opponent will bring some string counter (magical weaponmasters). Don't run this against Trolls though.

[Exemplar's_Gaze]

I love him. I run him with Idrians, TFG, and Vengers. Along with the Avatar and Fire of Salvation. FoS loves the infantry death along with Hallowed Avenger.

[maddermax]

Well, take the Testament, 5 Vengers, leave Gravus behind and fill out the rest of your points. If a Venger dies, revive it, and once they get within 13" of the enemy caster pop your feat and have them charge at MAT 9, P+S 14 (or 16) incorporeal and ignoring all spell buffs on the enemy caster. You can take Eiryss or eEiryss if you're worried that the enemy caster camping a lot of focus.

This works best in small games where it's less likely that your opponent will bring some string counter (magical weaponmasters). Don't run this against Trolls though.

Also, thanks to revive, if you've had a good turn collecting souls, and you've lost a few vengers, you can daisy chain the revives to get more threat range or better positioning of your vengers - first goes 3" ahead of the front living venger, next goes 3" beyond him, and so on. Those extra few inches can make it easier to position vengers for the charge on feat turn.

Also, I suppose you could get Madelyn Corbeau for an extra 3" movement before you start the daisy chaining, if you felt like it.

[Pixl]

I play him like every third game and though he can be tricky I always have fun.

I love to have TFG with Ashen on them, thats -4 on any charge attack from living models and with CMM and SPD 6 they are realy not bad att killing stuff on the feat turn either.

Get at least 2 full units of infantry to fuel him up, hierophant and wracks will of cause help alot to.

I usaly run TFG and zealots with him with a reckoner and a vanquisher.

[wazatdingder]

He takes the souls you'll need. And I think (without Testaments card in front me) his own ability stops Sactifier's soul thing

1. He only stops enemies from taking souls.
2. If you like keeping your ENTIRE force within 10" of your caster, your point is valid.

[FearMeMortals]

High Reclaimer2 and Gravus get along quite well, yet I don't see that ever mentioned. I've only played a few games with High Recliamer2 on Vassal but I usually try a min unit of Vengers+Gravus at 35 and max+Gravus at 50. Gravus is quite effective at killing casters because of his ability to boost.

[paradox]

Anything with reach is good with ToM.
Gravus steals a few exemplar souls here and there, but this is a minor loss, as it's only exemplars and capped at 3. Gravus + souls in an incorporeal charge = nasty.

[Revenge]

So much love for Testament. I run him with buffed-to-the-gills TFG. Love the demoralized look on the opponent's face when the handfull of TFG he managed to pop get straight back up.

Love dropping their defenses, seeing the opponent go mental on killing them while they have a chance, then shoving a warcaster with 11 focus down their throat.

Also, awesome model and fluff. Excellent caster.

[Pixl]

To sum up the soul issue then.
I know some of these things have already been mentioned...

1. He stops ENEMY models from collecting souls within his own control range.
2. When more then one model can collect souls it is the one CLOSEST to the model dying that gets the souls. Nothing on ToMs card says anything different in that regards. He does not get all souls just because they are gathered in his control.
3. As he gets focus from souls it is of no consequence if you run a Sanctifier as either the jack gets souls and use for focus, or ToM gets souls that turn into focus and then he can allocate them to the sanctifier in the normal matter. Of course you might end up with a jack full of focus when you might just need one to run or something :/

[Craaag]

I like him but I'm finding he doesn't match my playstyle quite as good as some of the other casters like Kreoss and Severious. I like to keep my Warcasters well back from the action and they need a huge control zone for this type of play. Testament's 5 Focus really causes me to lose out on a few more souls than I feel would be optimal in playing him. Also my local meta would force me to include at least 1 Devout every game if I had any hopes of keeping him alive should I play him aggressively upfield to threaten the assassination run.

He is a strong caster and the times I've used him I still manage to pull out the win in most cases but it feels a little awkward to me. I love revive and ashen veil, 2 really strong spells. Hallowed avenger is alright but I find that the jack can easily get out of the control zone forcing Urcaen's gate to be able to allocate to it.

[Menoth's Bishop]

Sanctifier can only hold 3 souls, if i remember correctly, and when turning them to focus u decide how many. That means:
- he cant steal more than 3
- u can leave him some and decide how many extra he can get
- play him far away and collect souls out of his control area
- doesnt matter if it gets far, he can yse the souls (and if he hallowed, he probably has 1)

Due his shannigan move, his feat is more dangerous.

Now i really wanna try testament with nycia. P+s 10 wont kill a caster, but will help to put the last pinta of dmg, or kill support. I know the feat basically gibes her pathfinder, but hey, she can walk through a wall do some job

[Andross]

Sanctifier can only hold 3 souls, if i remember correctly, and when turning them to focus u decide how many. That means:
- he cant steal more than 3
- u can leave him some and decide how many extra he can get
- play him far away and collect souls out of his control area
- doesnt matter if it gets far, he can yse the souls (and if he hallowed, he probably has 1)

Due his shannigan move, his feat is more dangerous.

Now i really wanna try testament with nycia. P+s 10 wont kill a caster, but will help to put the last pinta of dmg, or kill support. I know the feat basically gibes her pathfinder, but hey, she can walk through a wall do some job

No, but it will kill a decent number of warlocks and if you hit an ARM 14 caster with a disruptor bolt first she most certainly will kill them dead. Power 10 weapon master charge, followed up by a second power 10 weapon master attack (thanks to rapid strike) will end most games fairly quickly if you manage to land both attacks. However, with acrobatics and to possible addition of Saxon Orrik to almost any list Nicia does not really need the Testament to assist her on assassination runs.

As for the Testament, this is one of the few times I have largely different results from Paradox & Co., however I think that is a play style difference required by the Testament. I prefer to press forward hard with my entire army and the Testament really doesn't have the defensive stats to support this line up, which makes my usual full court press approach less than ideal as he gets quickly killed. I've had great success playing him as an attrition caster that uses his feat to assassinate once the opportunity arises, but the change in play style feels clunky to me, hence my dislike.

He is completely playable though, I just don't like him.

[PG_strangedane]

Testament is one of my favorite casters ever, both due to fluff and the model, but also his rules!
- Fire of Salvation and his spell Hallowed Avenger gives an amazing threatrange!
- Idrians and Ashen Veil is DEF 17 infantry, nice!
- Sanctifier gets fueled up fast and then it doesn't take more = amazing jack

I tried him with Vessel and lots of hard-hitting solos, worked really great! The enemy couldn't let them be due to potentiel feat assassination, sp they killed them, triggering a miracle.

I love him!

[shady]

i have never run him im kinda scared to im use to the harbinger and the old man what can i say he is a good caster i just am not used to low focus casters cheers

[IvanTheMenite]

I thought we figured out a while ago that because of the impact attacks we couldn't do the whole ghost-Venger shenanigans. Far as I recall its only light cav that can choose not to make the attack or somesuch which allowed eGaspy the soulhunter nonsense. Plus the Light Cav extra move of course

[PG_strangedane]

There were a ruling somewhere along the line I think?

[GermanJoe]

Doesn't it say in the rules:

"...Can stop anytime during its movement to make impact attacks..."

Then it is no problem. I thought I read some like this...

[jandrese]

The last errata has a fix for that IIRC.

[Silverstar843]

Couple misconceptions about Testament...

1: You really don't need to have everything in his control area. The only times you need them there are when you've just revived a million things or you're paranoid about enemy soul collection. Just because you can't reap someone's soul doesn't mean you cannot revive them. Sometimes that farther push forward is more important that the soul. Remember, if the opponent doesn't kill more than one guy, you can revive him, and still power the jack(s), and upkeep Ashen Veil without wracks or the hierophant. Even if they kill like 5 of your troops, well, who cares? Infantry are sacrificial.

2: Testament is never 5 Foc unless you've done something horribly wrong. Things will die and you will get focus from it. You just have to make sure that you're getting enough to power your army and power your spells. I've had some 15+ Focus on one game and used it to win with his offensive spell.

Lastly, as a side note, Always use Wracks and a Hierophant with him if you're not already. Have fun.

[jandrese]

Having 15 focus don't make you a FOC 15 caster though. He's still FOC 5 even with a huge load of soul focus, which matters for things like control area and spellcasting (although since his only offensive spell sucks, this isn't as big of a concern).

[Exemplar's_Gaze]

Here is my extremely successful Testament list if anyone wants to give it a whirl. It attacks and dies in waves, Idrians being the first and Vengers being the last. You should have no issues with souls in this list as they come in droves. Fire of Salvation gets ridiculous threat with Testament with the help from Hallowed Avenger. With Corbeau in the list Testament himself can get the job done from an unsuspected 16 inches away! Anyway, as follows:

Testament +6
Fire of Salvation 9
Hierophant 2
Exemplar Vengers 11
Holy Zealots 6
Monolith Bearer 2
Idrian Skirmishers 10
IS Guide and Chieftain 3
Temple Flameguard 6
TFG Officer and Standard 2
Vassal 2
Wracks 1
Madelyn Corbeau 2

Points: 50

(All units are max.)

I sometimes trade out Madelyn for Rhupert, just for the extra troop survivability. Most of the time I want them to die though :P

[cryptomancer]

Ehhhhh.... he's dull. It's either Venger Featbomb, or attrition/Revive shennanigans. That's all he's got. Getting Reach on his weapon during the MK2 transition was basically pointless, because I've never once gotten him into melee.

I just don't care about the Testament, y'know? He's not quite as Auto-Win as Kreoss1, and not quite as interesting as our tricky support 'casters, and not as dangerous or swift as our serious assassination 'casters. He's pretty great, but I just can't be bothered. I actually used him as bitz for a Kreoss2 conversion because I was never playing the dude.

-crypto

[Exemplar's_Gaze]

You play and love the walking feat that is Kreoss2, and you think Testament is lame?