Which minions have good fit with Circle?

[ironchicken]

Hi

I thought recently I do not have many minions for use with Circle.

I have Bog-trogs and gobbers but that is it.

I wondered which minions are most used by Circle.

I know about the crocs but that is about it.

views appreciated.

[Jolly Puggles]

Lanyssa Ryssyll is invaluable when going up against the Legion for her ability to stomp on Eyeless Sight. She may not last very long, but the amount of resources your opponent will direct at her will likely amount to more than the low low price you paid for her.

[TrilliumLT]

Lanyssa Ryssyll is a very good choice even when not playing against legion. I will normally take her over a blackclad.
Totem hunter is also another fine choice. With prey and bonding I find he can get in or behind there lines easily.

[Mattho2k3]

The Gator Witch Doctor will be invaluable when he comes out. Bone Grinders see table time with Cassius for me.

[Charming]

I am gonna get myself some bone grinders for Mohsar, Cassius, maybe Morvhana. Theyre only 2p and that is probably worth it just for the Arcane Bolt for sniping stuff. The ability to cast animi of dead war beasts seems really really nice albeit situational and extending the RNG of spells is very sweet as well. 12 or 10 RNG is just so much more than 8, 10 or even 6. My Hierophant has helped my menite casters many times

[Mattho2k3]

I am gonna get myself some bone grinders for Mohsar, Cassius, maybe Morvhana. Theyre only 2p and that is probably worth it just for the Arcane Bolt for sniping stuff. The ability to cast animi of dead war beasts seems really really nice albeit situational and extending the RNG of spells is very sweet as well. 12 or 10 RNG is just so much more than 8, 10 or even 6. My Hierophant has helped my menite casters many times

I've gotten good use out of them with Cassius and Morvahna but Mohsar is not someone I'm ballsy enough to try. His defensive stats are to low to put him that close. Cassius can teleport back to Wurmwood and Morvahna has sac pawn to keep them alive.

[Azuresun]

Gatormen are very solid heavy infantry, less delicate than Ravagers and with more attacks than Skinwalkers. I've had good results using them with eBaldur, since his feat isn't faction-limited and lets them soak charges with ARM 21.

I'm also painting up a unit of Nyss Hunters at the moment which should be an excellent addition, especially since they can ignore forests.

[PG_fildrigar]

I'm not really a fan of any of the Minion solos we can use; Alton Ashley, Lynyssa Mouthfyll, Gudrun, Pendrake, &c. ( Though the Witch Doctor will probably be an excellent addition to my lineup. )

The units I use most often are: ( From most often used to least often)
1 ) Swamp Gobbers. Almost every time.
2 ) Gatormen ( though I haven't been using them as much lately )
3 ) Bog Trogs ( at 50 points )
4 ) Nyss Hunters ( They are amazing, but I just don't reach for them as often as I should. I did finally find another blister of them, so I can go to ten now. I expect I will be using them as Reinforcements fairly regularly. )
5 ) Bone Grinders. ( I've actually only used them a hand full of times in MK2. They found their way into almost every list in MK1, for some darn reason. )

[eLdritch]

Slaughterhousers can be interesting in some lists... Wrong Eye & Snapjaw as well as the Bear Dwarf also have their moments

[PG_LEJKaya]

Bog Trog Ambushers recently became a more interesting option, Ambush is a great ability but considering reinforcements they could be a nice counter to follow the enemy reinforcements onto the board and take them out!
Farrow Bone Grinders used to be a big deal but kind of made obsolete with gallows groves. The +2 RNG is still as good as it was though and with that and their other big ability (Animus backup) they are worth owning.
Farrow Brigands are something I just never saw a role for in circle.
Farrow Razorback Crew I haven't tried yet but since most farrow players don't use them I can't see a great use for them.
Farrow Slaughterhousers are legit. This unit is cash-money! I own 2 units now and they were both well worth the investment. Circle is the most pillow fisted of all proper factions and these hit like a truck. Combined with decent ARM and with the utility of take down and good accuracy they are something that really fills a gap circle don't have anything for.
Gatormen Posse are nothing less than the best heavy infantry in the game. Basically if you want heavy infantry and faction doesn't matter take them. If faction matters you need to compare them to Skinwalkers and see which you want.
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew, everyone should own these.
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters, well sometimes it seems everyone DOES own these. If you need a good hunter, 12" ranged unit this is what we have.
Croak Hunter seems ok but we have better solos.
Feralgeist fills a niche and also as incorporial model has some zone/ flag holding uses as well as frenzy control.
Thrullg ​is worth owning as he removes focus from camping casters which is something Circle still struggle with.
Alten Ashley should see more use. He bypasses high ARM on beasts which we do struggle with but dies really easily.
Gudrun the Wanderer offers nothing our solos don't in most cases but keep an eye out for the corner case matches where he's golden.
Lanyssa Ryssyll is pants vs legion. You'd think otherwise but she just dies to virtually no effort. The legion player often doesn't even need to waste a beast activation. Her eyeless sight and pathfinder removal is very poor and simply doesn't work. I you can keep her safe, her boosted rolls are good to get hunters mark on those DEF 17 Legion beasts.
However, against other factions she has game enough to make her an interesting choice over a blackclad. Prowl is, on the whole, a better defense than the... well nothing that the blackclad has so consider her a good alternate.
Saxon Orrik is sometimes needed if you have other minions for pathfinder... Otherwise he does do RFP and can finish off beasts. Not bad really just for that.
Totem Hunter kills Eiryss dead. Kills most solos dead to be honest so if you need support or important solos killed get him. Not just solos TBH I have used him for killing Kayazy underboss, Aiyanna & Holt, the Dude and all sorts of high value targets. He has sprint too so don't think he's a one shot weapon.
Viktor Pendrake really helps vs hordes. Druids with boosted attack can get more crits, I even tried him with an eKaya build based around muzzle. Against high DEF beasts (Warpwolves, Legion flyers and stuff) he is a huge deal.
I have yet to find a great use for any Lesser Warlocks over our own faction options. We simply do not have casters who want more beasts but can't control all the fury.


Did I miss anyone?

[AmonadRodrigues]

Bog Trog Ambushers recently became a more interesting option, Ambush is a great ability but considering reinforcements they could be a nice counter to follow the enemy reinforcements onto the board and take them out!

Also they can threaten the opposed table edge to which your own reinforcement is threatening.

Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters, well sometimes it seems everyone DOES own these. If you need a good hunter, 12" ranged unit this is what we have.

Add: and with an awesome melee-potion.

Viktor Pendrake really helps vs hordes. Druids with boosted attack can get more crits, I even tried him with an eKaya build based around muzzle. Against high DEF beasts (Warpwolves, Legion flyers and stuff) he is a huge deal.

Interesting thoughts. I dont own him and always overlooked him as an option. I'll try him in some proxied games.

I have yet to find a great use for any Lesser Warlocks over our own faction options. We simply do not have casters who want more beasts but can't control all the fury.


Did I miss anyone?

I thought about eBaldur, but never tried. His feat effects friendly not only friendly faction. I run him with 3 Heavies usually, but 6 Fur, order of activation and limited control give me issues sometimes. An independent Heavy may be an interesting option, but i never tried it.

[nverbe]

The only lesser warlock I used was in a couple fun games and it was dahlia and Skarath. I used the pair mostly for dhalia's haunting melody. It was a complete denial list. I took it over the top. Cassius, Druids, wyrds, lanyssa. If it could turn off an ability I took it. she was easy to keep safe with Druids, she couldn't be hit at range because of stealth, she couldn't be hit will spells because of counter magic, she couldn't be meleed or shot up close because of haunting melody, they couldn't charge the stuff behind her because of haunting melody. Skarath didn't do much but sit back and spray the stuff that was close enough to walk forward.

Incidentally I discovered that Cassius feat and lanyssa are decent vs a couple legion locks. Bad + bad = ??? Gotta catch them in the forest. If they didn't spread out their beasts enough there isn't much they can do that turn.

[eLdritch]

Well as I said in another thread (and being ripped apart for saying atm) I don't really play Warpwolves at all because I think they're terrible... point for point you can get a lot more out of the lesser locks and you can then spend the points you usually use to support your wolves on other stuff. If you just want a beatstick the Bear Dwarf or even Rorsh and Brine are a pretty good self sufficient choice... They're not everyone's cup of tea of course but they can work pretty nicely in some lists.

[Blaque]

A big reason I don't generally use Minions a lot is faction buffs. A lot of what Circle does kind of hinges on faction-releated effects. This means that warlocks llike Morvahna, both Baldurs, both Kayas, Kromac, Grayle, and Mohsar really feel like you're hamstringing yourself unless you take at least some faction things. And since we tend towards higher FURY stats (highest average in Hordes outside of Minions), we are also encouraged to at least get some faction beasts in there to fuel things.

I think Krueger1 is great with Minions. Gatormen and Nyss love Lightning Tendrils. Nyss are soft enough that they don't care about not benefitting from Deflection and Gatormen are tough enough to not worry as much. So good choices there. Bog Trogs are good if you have room. Cassius doesn't care where the souls come from, so does well with anyone, but probably the ones you can take in numbers like Nyss, Slaughterhousers, or Bonegrinders.

Swam Gobbers I think are the mose ubiquious ones, though. The cloud helps a lot on keeping warlocks and our various Prowl models up and running. I haven't used Bone grinders in a while, though. Those two points I find have been spent on a couple Gallows Groves more often and that has done me well. The animus back-up is nice, but overall I like the reach-out and touch the Groves grant myself. Though they can work together for some pretty optimal spell ranges if you can't quite get the tree in position.

And stuff.

[Mattho2k3]

Well as I said in another thread (and being ripped apart for saying atm) I don't really play Warpwolves at all because I think they're terrible... point for point you can get a lot more out of the lesser locks and you can then spend the points you usually use to support your wolves on other stuff. If you just want a beatstick the Bear Dwarf or even Rorsh and Brine are a pretty good self sufficient choice... They're not everyone's cup of tea of course but they can work pretty nicely in some lists.

I haven't read the other thread but the flak your getting is because it is unconventional to what has worked for the rest of the community. You might be up to something new that others haven't thought of yet or given enough games to the build.

[eLdritch]

Well I always kind of think from a Steamroller point of view... Lots of warp wolves is the kind of thing that everyone expects from Circle... so it's something people think about when they make their lists... kind of like Bane Thralls + Tart for Cryx but not as "simple and strong" if you get my drift... Showing up with somehing unconventional is always going to give you an edge if it can still perform well... especially in a game like Warmachine with millions of different possible combos.

I don't think I'm smarter or further ahead than anyone, that's just the way I think about my lists... and I've come to realize I can do more if I chuck that Crutch that is Warpwolves in the corner and spend my points on other awesome stuff.

[Bakemono]

Well I always kind of think from a Steamroller point of view... Lots of warp wolves is the kind of thing that everyone expects from Circle... so it's something people think about when they make their lists... kind of like Bane Thralls + Tart for Cryx but not as "simple and strong" if you get my drift... Showing up with somehing unconventional is always going to give you an edge if it can still perform well... especially in a game like Warmachine with millions of different possible combos.

I expect most of us that attend tournaments are thinking of things from an SR standpoint. Most Circle players bring Warpwolves (in a variety of mixes) because they tend to offer the most options and flexibility. While I do not dispute an unconventional list can occasionally provide an edge, more often than not it will be too niche. Can you give us an example of your 50pt unconventional list followed by a summary of how it works so we have more specifics.

I don't think I'm smarter or further ahead than anyone, that's just the way I think about my lists... and I've come to realize I can do more if I chuck that Crutch that is Warpwolves in the corner and spend my points on other awesome stuff.

I would like to point out that you keep contradicting yourself. You were saying that Warpwolves are awful. Now you are saying they are a crutch. Indicating that they are a crutch implies they are wonderful and thus people lean on them. Which is it? I am looking forward to your list of awesome stuff and an education in how it is used. Lesser Warlocks have been discussed at length over the years. Most people who use them are very selective about which ones and always in a support rather than a replacement function. This is because Lesser Warlocks are expensive, come with a huge built in disadvantage, and often bring nothing more (often less) than a faction model provides. In my neck of the woods, only Wrong Eye and Snapjaw see regular use. Every now and then we will see the pig or bear, but this is a the exception not the rule.

[Mattho2k3]

http://museonminis.com/circle-minion-warlock-tech/

Interesting article about lesser warlocks and Circle.

[stupidmonkey]

Let's not let this thread get pulled down by the "Wolves are no good" topic too. The grass is blue, or something more debatable like that, please.

[Mattho2k3]

I will admit that I have never played with the lesser warlocks and have only played against them a handful of times. In my experience they have never lasted long on the table. I also would like a lore extensive thorough explanation on your list builds and how they play.

[Bakemono]

Let's not let this thread get pulled down by the "Wolves are no good" topic too. The grass is blue, or something more debatable like that, please.

That is not my intent. My curiosity is piqued. I just want to see one of these lists. By implication in this thread he is replacing Warpwolves with Lesser Warlocks. Fair enough. I cannot evaluate this notion from glittering generalities and would like to see specifics.

[Mattho2k3]

That is not my intent. My curiosity is piqued. I just want to see one of these lists. By implication in this thread he is replacing Warpwolves with Lesser Warlocks. Fair enough. I cannot evaluate this notion from glittering generalities and would like to see specifics.

As is my curiousity. It falls under the OP question about minions so is on topic and I feel that we have asked in a polite manner. We are not bashing his list builds such as may be happening in whatever other post he posted in.

[ironchicken]

As is my curiousity. It falls under the OP question about minions so is on topic and I feel that we have asked in a polite manner. We are not bashing his list builds such as may be happening in whatever other post he posted in.

Hi thanks for the kind words.

Under Mk1 I used a lot of Mercs but I rarely use minions. I love my Bog trogs just because. I do not use gators because I have an aversion to gators with tongues. Crocs and gators do not have tongues and I never understood why they were ever modelled so. They just look wrong to me. So it is a turn off. I love the pig models but don't see a lot of use.

I will not use a minion that does not seem to thematically fit. For example the totem hunter just does not to me look like it should be in a Circle army.

I was just wondering if there was something I was missing worth buying. It appears not because the Circle is off bam enough to not have easy fit ins.

What is the razorback like that looked interesting to give a bit of arty?

[ringsnake]

You've got it backwards. The question should be: "Which Circle Warlocks and models are good with minions?"

Most of our warbeasts and warlocks have FF spells, feats, abilities, and animi.

Morvahna and Grayle, for example, would be terrible with minions. Their feats are Friendly Faction only, and so too are most of Morvahna's spells. eKrueger, on the other hand, doesn't care if you're Circle or minion, though he's inspirational only to Circle. The biggest problem Circle has with minions, is that we've got so much in faction stuff that stands equal to their minion equivalents. The exception being the Nyss Hunters, who stand equal to Bloodtrackers + Nuala, and are superior to Reeves in every way.

Gators are better than Ravagers and Skinwalkers, but again, there's that in faction issue. You wouldn't want to use gators with Grayle or Kromac (they don't trigger Warpath) but then you probably wouldn't use Ravagers or Skinwalkers with them either.

If you use minion warlocks for some reason, you can put the Gorax's Primal on minion warbeasts. It just says friendly, not friendly faction. I'm not sure Snapjaw's any better than a Feral or Stalker, I don't think so, but I thought I'd throw it out there. There is some minor amusement value with Dahlia Hallyr and Kromac. She has a spell that makes living models in her control unable to target her with ranged and magic, and Kromac has bestial, which shuts down magic. Against Trollbloods she's indestructible!

Also, Lanyssa Ryssyll is not a solo you should ever be fielding with Circle. The Wayfarer is strictly superior in every way. A smart Legion player isn't bothered by her at all, and she has limited utility against most other factions.

[PG_LEJKaya]

Lanyssa Ryssyll is not a solo you should ever be fielding with Circle. The Wayfarer is strictly superior in every way. A smart Legion player isn't bothered by her at all, and she has limited utility against most other factions.

She has prowl, which is better than the no defenses that the blackclad has. Against a lot of factions thats a thing, I hear and see a lot of blackclads only get to hunters mark once. She has reuse value as she can shoot from stealth.

What is the razorback like that looked interesting to give a bit of arty?

Its artillery. We haven't had it before may be worth a go at least.

[ironchicken]

@ Ringsnake: yes I think that was the conclusion I had come to aason for the original question. Circle is a fairly challenging faction to play. However, it has a lot of interesting stuff. I don't think I think about minions much because Circle does not have a lot of use for them. So the question was a sanity check for me as a fairly inexperienced player.

@ PG_LEJKaya: Yes I wonder about access to artillery. It is a hole and could be a suprise for opponents. Its a cute model too.

[taffyjoe]

I have a thought about using the lesser warlocks for reinforcements - especially Dahlia and Rorsch, they have good threat range, are within their own control range, are both melee and ranged threats, and can do a number on most typical flankers.

Plus in 50 point games you can bring either a gallows grove, or a feralgeist to claim/contest zones/flags. Seems like a nice alternative to the wolf riders.

[ringsnake]

I have a thought about using the lesser warlocks for reinforcements - especially Dahlia and Rorsch, they have good threat range, are within their own control range, are both melee and ranged threats, and can do a number on most typical flankers.

Plus in 50 point games you can bring either a gallows grove, or a feralgeist to claim/contest zones/flags. Seems like a nice alternative to the wolf riders.

It's an interesting idea. I like the Feralgeist for more than just scenario grabbing. Warpwolves still get to warp when under the control of a geist, so they're still a pretty serious threat under geist control.

I can't speak to flank units, but putting a minion warlock on a flank all on his lonesome seems dangerous. I think I'd rather have two units of Woldstalkers, since they can threaten up to 16" from the table edge they come in on with RAT:8 POW:12 magical attacks.

[taffyjoe]

It's an interesting idea. I like the Feralgeist for more than just scenario grabbing. Warpwolves still get to warp when under the control of a geist, so they're still a pretty serious threat under geist control.

I can't speak to flank units, but putting a minion warlock on a flank all on his lonesome seems dangerous. I think I'd rather have two units of Woldstalkers, since they can threaten up to 16" from the table edge they come in on with RAT:8 POW:12 magical attacks.

Yea, not sure how it'll work oout, just something I was toying with. They don't impact too heavily with character restrictions these days. Woldstalkers are also nice reinforcements, as are wolf riders, nyss etc