am I doing this right??

[journeymanbob]

Ok Worldwarden has the geomancy abilityright it says that it can be forced to cast a 3 or less spell from the casters list. So what we were doing was adding 1 fury to it then casting Chain Lightning from Krueger's list for free. what this did was allowed the Circle player who was runnig 2 Worldwardens and Megalith to cast Chain lightning 3times without the warlock every spending a single Fury. Was this right??? can cirlce really cast up to 5 chain lightnings in 1 turn asumming that Krueger choose to step out and cast as well??

[Warcaster Feiss]

Correct.

You force the Woldwarden / Megalith (i.e. give them one Fury) to cast a spell from your Warlock's spell list (note, this doesn't allow them to cast the animii of the 'beasts in your warlock's battlegroup) for free.

Megalith / Woldwardens are indeed fun with Krueger1 for spamming Chain Lightning, but you get to the point where it's Turn 3 and all the infantry is gone and you have 3 relatively pillow fisted heavies (compared to Warpwolves) to try and take down the heavier targets in your opponent's army.

[eLdritch]

Then again if you had 3 Warpwolves instead of 3 Wolds you'd be sitting there with the enemy's heavy hitters AND his infantry, wetting your pants

Sad truth: Warpwolves (except PB) are garbage!

[The_Trent]

I wouldn't say warpwolves are garbage at all, just under appreciated. To get the best use of a piece you need to see what works well with it and there are many people who can tell you horror stories about "that one time a WW killed their 'assumed to be safe' caster."

[James_Rayner]

Then again if you had 3 Warpwolves instead of 3 Wolds you'd be sitting there with the enemy's heavy hitters AND his infantry, wetting your pants

Sad truth: Warpwolves (except PB) are garbage!

Did I read that wrong? I swear you just said that all WW apart from the PB are trash.

I am 12, and what is this?

[PG_LEJKaya]

Sad truth: Warpwolves (except PB) are garbage!

I am sure this is a typo but I have no clue what its supposed to say...

[zlygobbo]

I think WW are garbage... All warpwolfs are greate... Also with pKruegar when you can give to your feral REACH its awesome... I use to play pkruegar with 2 ferals and one WW and i think i will rid of WW... Because is 9 point scarlock...

[Bishop84]

Wow, this thread hurts my head. Neither the Wardens or the Warpwolves are garbage. They've both great in their own way.

Wardens are far more than an expensive skarlock. Skarlocks can't boost hit or damage, a Warden can. Skarlocks are super easy to kill with a weak ranged attack or two. A Warden will take the action of something more serious to take down. Also, since geomancy isn't an action you can trample for extra range and/or still make attacks. Chain Attack: Smite or even a simple slam can open up some pretty awesome attacks as well. Slam something big through some troops, support pieces, or even their 'caster then hit them with Geomancy while they're on the ground.

All the warpwolves have great uses as well. Purebloods are great at taking out masses of infantry or screened models, but struggle with high defense. Ferals will rip up pretty much anything you point them at, and have very versatile warping depending on what you need for the turn. The Stalker is my favorite as it can kill masses of infantry or put the hurt on something heavy with relative ease, and then get the heck out of harms way. Coupled with the ability to gain stealth on the advance and innate Pathfinder, you won't find a better all around beast.

[taffyjoe]

Then again if you had 3 Warpwolves instead of 3 Wolds you'd be sitting there with the enemy's heavy hitters AND his infantry, wetting your pants

Sad truth: Warpwolves (except PB) are garbage!

If the OP is having trouble against pKrueger he needs to take things that ignore POW 10 hits, and have enough hitting power in his army to deal with 3 or more heavies.

pKrueger can change a local Meta all by himself when he gets popular (as he did in MK1).

[zlygobbo]

Bisphop: I dont like WW beacause is so pillow fisted and he is preaty expensive... Maybe i am not using them righ bud i like them just with pBaldur. I am not a pro player. Bud when I use them on the end of game i allways realize that i could spent these point on some better models... For geomancy you haveto have a right spell... When it comes i rather spent 2 more points and take megalith... (i am not counting it for tournaments). and if you want to count a smite as a solid power attack you haveto consider that that you haveto hit with both initial attack and then with slam (with mat 6)... Also he have poor deff and also armor... yes he have a lot of damege boxes bud you cannot heal him... just with stones if you are within 1" (i dont count baldur as a healer) so you will heal him or teleport some important model... whenever i use them i am really disapointed... I agree that WW have its own place bud you haveto use him wisely.

I like much more warpwolf... maybe stones are not my playstile bud i have much more success with wolfs then with stones... My most and best caster is KROMAC i have really very high ratio W/L i lost with these guy just few games...

So thats my point of view i just dont like WW at these time... maybe in future i will like tham bud not for now...

[eLdritch]

wow... a bit defensive are we? :P

and yes i meant what I said. The Stalker... well I guess he at least has SOME utility but 10 points is way too steep for what he does.

Feral = terrible. Awefully situational Animus, very basic attacks, no special rules, his Warps are so 1 dimensional that whatever you chose you end up missing out on something vital, insanely squishy, expensive beast... It doesn't offer anything that our other Beasts of the same point costs don't offer...

Yes sure with an Argus, Gorax, Kaya, Wilder and Shifting Stones it's REALLY GOOD -.- Or you could just go with a useful beast that doesn't require another 10 points of support to be good

But it's a big Werewolf and every Circle Player knows that the Wolves are insanely good...

[Bakemono]

Woldwardens are very specific tools, like the corkscrew on your Swiss Army Knife. Their primary purpose (or at least what they are most effective at) is spamming effective 2-3pt spells. This makes them particularly suited to killing infantry. With Baldur they can "somewhat' serve as normal heavies due to his being able to offset their low Fury and whatnot. I find it ironic but Woldwardens are best with OTHER Warlocks than they are with Baldur because of the spell choices. The Megalith is, of course, the exception. If I take a construct with Baldur it is always (and only) the Megalith.

Warpwolves are the meat and potatoes of the Circle Faction. While they have several finesse uses based on animus or ranged attacks, they are our heavy hitters. Most lists, regardless of Warlock, should have 2+ of these (assorted mix) of these things. If you don't have one, you are starting the game with a self-imposed handicap.

[stupidmonkey]

!!!?!???!??!!??!?!??!?!???!!! I...uhm....aaaa... That is all I got for now, I will try to get my self together for a second.

[PG_fildrigar]

Protip: Using the abbreviation "WW" is unnecessarily confusing, considering how many thing we have in faction with those initials.

[eLdritch]

Woldwardens are very specific tools, like the corkscrew on your Swiss Army Knife. Their primary purpose (or at least what they are most effective at) is spamming effective 2-3pt spells. This makes them particularly suited to killing infantry. With Baldur they can "somewhat' serve as normal heavies due to his being able to offset their low Fury and whatnot. I find it ironic but Woldwardens are best with OTHER Warlocks than they are with Baldur because of the spell choices. The Megalith is, of course, the exception. If I take a construct with Baldur it is always (and only) the Megalith.

Warpwolves are the meat and potatoes of the Circle Faction. While they have several finesse uses based on animus or ranged attacks, they are our heavy hitters. Most lists, regardless of Warlock, should have 2+ of these (assorted mix) of these things. If you don't have one, you are starting the game with a self-imposed handicap.

Well and I think if you put 2+ of "these" in your list you might as well swap your D6 for D4 at the door. I'll take a tanky 3 Fury Beast with Pathfinder and Chain Attack Smite over a Warpwolf any day. Also who said Woldwarden? We have 3 other heavies and 2 Character Heavies that aren't Wolves (and i did say the PB was allright). Seriously... when new players are asking about Circle on this board I always read "Circle is the finesse faction" but apparently you HAVE to have a no brain required overpriced "heavy hitter" in your list or play "with a self-imposed handicap"? Come on...

[zlygobbo]

eLdritch: You are kidding right??? Stalker WORTH every point!!!! He is our BEST warbeast.... He have HUGE animus and he is also killing machine... he can kills heavy with no problem and also for infantry cleaning with berserker...

Feral??? Wow with pKruegar he is awesome... you cannot take better beast with him... Personaly i dont run a much but he is damn good beast...

Please L2P and then write something like these... D

Bakemono: yes i use WW with pkruegar... then i decide that pkruegar doesnt need more then one of these guy. Also i played two of them with eKruegar and i decide that he doesnt need any of them he needs just megalith.. because druids do similar job (and even better). I know ekruegar is tricky with WW you can charge kill someting or slam then use TK to place and finish some other job... Bud i think one is more then enough and also you haveto know where you want to put these guy.
Maybe basic problem for me is that its not just my playstyle... I like smashers and fast mobile warbeasts... thats why i love Circle... Thats why i stop play Cryx and trolls (cryx i was preaty good and troll just started and imidietely stops) beacouse they didnt offer me enoug board control (cryx offered me these bud i didnt like that they are so straight forward).

So only reason why i dont like WW is thati realy didnt have much success with them i am not talking that you can never take these guy... Bud you haveto really think when you want to use him because for 9 points we have really better beasts (everything depends on caster). He have his own place...

EDIT: WW is wold warden in every my topic... sorry...

[ChaosE]

wow... a bit defensive are we? :P

Feral = terrible. Awefully situational Animus, very basic attacks, no special rules, his Warps are so 1 dimensional that whatever you chose you end up missing out on something vital, insanely squishy, expensive beast... It doesn't offer anything that our other Beasts of the same point costs don't offer...

Yup, ok. 15/18 buffable to 15/20 with many locks...useless. And who wants a SPD 8 heavy with 3 base attacks and 4 fury? pshh...not me.

Keep playing, you got some lernin' to do.

[SillySod]

Finesse doesnt preclude you from killing things the old fashioned way. Warpwolves are great.

Wardens, however, are pretty poor. They really struggle to hurt anything with a decent armour value and thats bad news because circle usually need to use heavies to deal with the high end stuff.

[Bakemono]

Well and I think if you put 2+ of "these" in your list you might as well swap your D6 for D4 at the door. I'll take a tanky 3 Fury Beast with Pathfinder and Chain Attack Smite over a Warpwolf any day. Also who said Woldwarden? We have 3 other heavies and 2 Character Heavies that aren't Wolves (and i did say the PB was allright). Seriously... when new players are asking about Circle on this board I always read "Circle is the finesse faction" but apparently you HAVE to have a no brain required overpriced "heavy hitter" in your list or play "with a self-imposed handicap"? Come on...

I thought about answering you point by point but then I read your posts again and just kind of laughed. I'll get back to you when you have been seasoned a bit and we are both speaking the same language with the same context and experience.

[LoserX]

People complaining that the Warpwolves are too squishy aren't really considering Circle's play style, we don't wanna get "stuck in," we want to hit and run. and warpwolves are pretty good at that, especially if your using the "Trinity" of Feral, Stalker, and Pureblood. The stalker's animus is great for getting away if you can assure the target will die, the feral screws with the fury management of the opposition (hordes only sadly), and the pureblood allowing the other two to warp for ghostly is great especially with eKaya's Dog Pile, Blackclad wayfarer or Lanyssa Ryssyl using Hunter's mark allows them to charge a target THROUGH obstacles or terrain without needing LoS. or with the animus of the stalker retreat THROUGH obstacles or terrain if they have enough movement. Granted these abilities are dependent on taking the right list (but hey what really isn't?) or using the right caster but all factions are like this.

sorry about the rant i've been hearing this at the LGS alot and think people need to consider the way their faction plays when saying something is "garbage" or "broken"

P.S. The Trinity also has alittle of something for every situation, be it dealing with Infantry (stalker or Pureblood), big Heavies (Stalker and Feral), annoying solos (all three), Caster assassinations (again all three), and Protecting our caster (once again all three). I also forgot to mention that with the Argus's animus the Stalker can warp for bezerk and have a 360 degree front arc or the Pureblood can shoot his spray at anything with in Ten Inch's of himself. The gorax can use its animus to increase the destruction potential of the wolves by quite a bit. and with the introduction of the Winter Argus the Feral can warp for a bonus to ARM and have the Winter Argus can use his Animus to increase its arm even further, and Forced Evolution can make its def even higher creating a sufficient tank (key word sufficient not amazing).

[eLdritch]

That is exactly why I have only 178 posts on this forum ^^

It is so utterly pointless to talk to you people... how is this a discussion? I say something you don't like, you answer and give me the standard "Warpwolves are our only good beasts" drivel I tell you that I think you're wrong and why and the next post is "lol L2P"... just pointless... I might as well post on an MMO forum :>

And Bakemono next time you say something like:

I thought about answering you point by point but then I read your posts again and just kind of laughed. I'll get back to you when you have been seasoned a bit and we are both speaking the same language with the same context and experience.

Maybe know some facts about the person you're talking to/about or at least check the Join Date for a rough estimation to avoid any unnecessary embarassment.

sorry about the rant i've been hearing this at the LGS alot and think people need to consider the way their faction plays when saying something is "garbage" or "broken"

Sorry mate... I can ónly speak from personal experience. Too many factions force you to get stuck in at some point and so does SR ever since MK II. Also Circle doesn't have to play JUST one way. I've been playing successfully without Argii, Goraxes and Warpwolves (apart from the PB) for years now... If I liked either incarnation of Kaya I would probably play her without Stalkers and Ferals, too ^^ She'll do just fine with Goats, Ghetorix and the PB. Luckily there are enough other awesome Locks that I won't have to find out any time soon.

Cheers

[Saladin]

I'm sure you're trolling because of how excitable you are, but may I remind you that whilst warpwolves are very glass-jawed, both the feral and the stalker are the killingest beasts we have. They don't have much in the way of utility, but if you're playing at any competent level a primaled warp-strength feral will do more damage than a woldwarden and any of the satyrs. Not even opinion. Statistically, mathematically, objectively so.

But again, that's what they're good at. Satyrs do power attacks really well, woldwardens are tremendous tankers and have incredible utility, and the gorax is a neat pinch hitter.


I suggest using your beasts in a position where they will excel, instead of throwing a warpwolf into the middle of your opponent's army and then pouting when it doesn't auto-win for you.

[Bakemono]

And Bakemono next time you say something like:

Maybe know some facts about the person you're talking to/about or at least check the Join Date for a rough estimation to avoid any unnecessary embarassment.

My comments have nothing to do with your number of posts or your join date. They are based entirely on content. I suspect most people reading and answering your posts could care less (i.e. they don't like or dislike) but are talking to the substance, or lack thereof, in your comments.

Sorry mate... I can ónly speak from personal experience. Too many factions force you to get stuck in at some point and so does SR ever since MK II. Also Circle doesn't have to play JUST one way. I've been playing successfully without Argii, Goraxes and Warpwolves (apart from the PB) for years now... If I liked either incarnation of Kaya I would probably play her without Stalkers and Ferals, too ^^ She'll do just fine with Goats, Ghetorix and the PB. Luckily there are enough other awesome Locks that I won't have to find out any time soon.

Cheers

Heh. And you expect us to take you seriously? Grow a thicker skin, but keep up the comedy. You are a natural.

[stupidmonkey]

Eldritch, please do not think that that we are not a good community. In my experience all of the different factions have forums that reflect the personality of the people that tend to play the armies themselves. (anyone that has spent time in the Cryx forums know what I am talking about) :P We tend to be a little sarcastic in here, but that is all.

It is hard to think that WarpWolves are bad. They win Tournaments!! I, like you, have been playing for quite some time and do not have many posts, mainly because I had only played in my small META for many years after getting into the game and did not feel qualified to talk about things on such a larger scale. Perhaps in your META Wolfs are not represented well, I do not pretend to know your experience, except to say that Circle players in tournaments bring Wolves and smash face with them. I won a local steamroller on SAT with E-Kaya X2 stalkers and a pure blood.

I can promise that a Def 14 heavy with a 2/3 chance of having a great animus is awesome. That is before you factor in support. I hear what you are saying about too much support, but we are like Prot in that respect. We bring tons of support for our one or two heavies, and they last WAY longer than they should. A wilder casts the stalkers animus on a wolf, Stones send the wolf up, he eats things (something even you have not denied they do well) it walks back, and something in 1/2 of the lists out there grows a forest in front of him. Then the next turn the stones take the fury away, this can be done by 2 or 3 wolves a turn depending on caster. E-Kaya is just silly.

[eLdritch]

Eldritch, please do not think that that we are not a good community. In my experience all of the different factions have forums that reflect the personality of the people that tend to play the armies themselves. (anyone that has spent time in the Cryx forums know what I am talking about) :P We tend to be a little sarcastic in here, but that is all.

It is hard to think that WarpWolves are bad. They win Tournaments!! I, like you, have been playing for quite some time and do not have many posts, mainly because I had only played in my small META for many years after getting into the game and did not feel qualified to talk about things on such a larger scale. Perhaps in your META Wolfs are not represented well, I do not pretend to know your experience, except to say that Circle players in tournaments bring Wolves and smash face with them. I won a local steamroller on SAT with X2 stalkers and a pure blood.

I can promise that a Def 14 heavy with a 2/3 chance of having a great animus is awesome. That is before you factor in support. I hear what you are saying about too much support, but we are like Prot in that respect. We bring tons of support for our one or two heavies, and they last WAY longer than they should. A wilder casts the stalkers animus on a wolf, Stones send the wolf up, he eats things (something even you have not denied they do well) it walks back, and something in 1/2 of the lists out there grows a forest in front of him. Then the next turn the stones take the fury away, this can be done by 2 or 3 wolves a turn depending on caster. E-Kaya is just silly.

thank you. contrary to what your name suggests that was a rather smart post

1 Thing though... some of these posts above are not sarcastic... they are simply dumb drivel by people who do not have any real arguments.

I never posted much because these community boards have always been plagued by what I like to call "Forum Meta"... You got people here from all over the world and all sorts of metas and the meta that is largely accepted here mostly just doesn't exist on the real table... In Mk I it was the "Warjacks are useless" debate and in Mk II it's the "high armor is the top priority" debate.... among others... What I say comes from experience in club games, Steamrollers, Vassal, etc. and it is no more true or false than anyone else's experience

I have seen Wolf lists win, too! I've also seen Sloan lists beat Barney :P in essence it is and will always be a game of chance. You are right though and I didn't deny that Wolves with the right support can tear a hole in even Khador and Skorne armor reliably... I have just found in my travels that you don't normally need to tear those holes... I started the faction back in the day because I loved the idea of movement shenanigans... We got a lot more over the years to support that but I feel the more shenanigans we got the more the neccesity for Warpwolves got left behind. If I want to Hulk Smash I could probably do that better with Trolls or such...

btw - not trolling.

[stupidmonkey]

ROFL!! Jacks were crap in MK1. ;P

[PG_fildrigar]

Let's try to play nice and not resort to personal attacks, please.

[ChaosE]

I never posted much because these community boards have always been plagued by what I like to call "Forum Meta"... You got people here from all over the world and all sorts of metas and the meta that is largely accepted here mostly just doesn't exist on the real table... In Mk I it was the "Warjacks are useless" debate and in Mk II it's the "high armor is the top priority" debate.... among others... What I say comes from experience in club games, Steamrollers, Vassal, etc. and it is no more true or false than anyone else's experience

You're making blanket statements based on your own limited experiences that some of us disagree with. Sounds like you're one of the people you're complaining about. Just because someone disagrees with you doesnt mean they're a meta-sheep. Noones saying your strategy is crap. We're just saying your opinion that everyone elses strategy is crap is...well...crap.

[Bishop84]

and with the introduction of the Winter Argus the Feral can warp for a bonus to ARM and have the Winter Argus can use his Animus to increase its arm even further

Winter Argus' animus is SELF. Can't put it on a warpwolf.

[Folha Seca]

Does any other faction have so many "SELF"-Animi like we have? I mean, 2/3 of our beasts have "SELF" which for example is limiting the effectivness or synergistic task of the Wilder quite often. A little bit frustrating if you ask me...!

[Bishop84]

Tell me about it. In Domination we gave out three of our best non-SELF animi to the other factions, and all we got in return were three more SELF animi. But that's a topic for another thread...

[PG_LEJKaya]

Just because someones new ideas are different to your's doesn't mean they are wrong.

eLdritch has some points and he's defending them, personal attacks are totally unwarranted. I for one hope he can make a new thread and explain why he doesn't like warp wolves, maybe with a sample list and how he uses it?

[eLdritch]

You're making blanket statements based on your own limited experiences that some of us disagree with. Sounds like you're one of the people you're complaining about. Just because someone disagrees with you doesnt mean they're a meta-sheep. Noones saying your strategy is crap. We're just saying your opinion that everyone elses strategy is crap is...well...crap.

... Of course I make statements based on my own experience... that is what an OPINION is... If I were to just repeat what other people are saying or what I read on some blog or forum that would hardly be credible now would it? At your last sentence: So in other words, my opinion is invalid because I'm in the minority? wow ^^

Just because someones new ideas are different to your's doesn't mean they are wrong.

eLdritch has some points and he's defending them, personal attacks are totally unwarranted. I for one hope he can make a new thread and explain why he doesn't like warp wolves, maybe with a sample list and how he uses it?

I'm not sure I still want to do that just to be called a noob some more I'll just go back to not bothering with this section of the forum just like I did before, I think. 3 wild guesses why I'm not displaying faction loyalty for Cygnar or Orboros in my sig... thanks for the positive answer all the same :>

[taffyjoe]

I'm not sure I still want to do that just to be called a noob some more I'll just go back to not bothering with this section of the forum just like I did before, I think. 3 wild guesses why I'm not displaying faction loyalty for Cygnar or Orboros in my sig... thanks for the positive answer all the same :>

Sorry for calling you a Troll. I guess your opinion was so outlandish I assumed you weren't serious!

I too would be interested in seeing more of your opinions. A new persepective is always welcome.

[Chip]

eLdritch has some points and he's defending them, personal attacks are totally unwarranted. I for one hope he can make a new thread and explain why he doesn't like warp wolves, maybe with a sample list and how he uses it?

He came into a thread about Woldwardens and started randomly blasting Warpwolves. There's only so much slack you can pull a guy.

Onto the actual topic (Woldwardens? Remember them?) Woldwardens are better when they geomancy buffs onto themselves rather than attacking - I'm currently enjoying a line of Woldwardens with Roots of the Earth, in forests, behind a rock wall (if I can wrangle it, on a hill behind a cloud ) who exist soley to soak up damage until Baldur gets within 10" of the enemy 'caster... But yeah, Circle can get off about two more chain lightnings than they have Woldwardens

[PG_LEJKaya]

Theres plenty more slack before "Go away and L2P" becomes a valid response TBH.

Sure, question him, I personally think he's wrong, but he's backing up his opinions with reasonable arguments so the discussion is worth having.

[Bakemono]

... Of course I make statements based on my own experience... that is what an OPINION is... If I were to just repeat what other people are saying or what I read on some blog or forum that would hardly be credible now would it? At your last sentence: So in other words, my opinion is invalid because I'm in the minority? wow ^^

Your opinion is neither valid nor invalid based on being in the minority or the majority. The issue is you aren't giving us any specifics or any evidence to support your claims. In your rather flamboyant run you have indicated a rather wide variety of opinions that do not conform to the experiences of many here. There is nothing wrong with that but such assertions are best served with examples and supporting evidence. If you do not give such things, why would you expect anyone to lend any credence whatsoever to what you suggest? You have asserted that:

1. Warpwolves are terrible.
2. You can play any Warlock (aside from BOTH Kayas whom you dislike) without Warpwolves effectively.
3. You have asserted that Lesser Warlocks are a valid replacement entirely for Warpwolves.

Ok. The cardinal rule of writing is "show, don't tell." Give us some lists. Give us some hard numbers and examples. Show us the strategies for such lists and explain how these unconventional lists (your description) give you an edge. I never called you a Noob or anything else. I merely commented that I went back and reread your posts and felt I would wait until you were seasoned and we had the same context. Context relates to CONTENT. You are rife with very loud opinions but very lacking in content. You now have the perfect opportunity to put me any any others who dared question you in our respective places by providing said content. What more could you ask for? Here I am putting my foot in my mouth by asking for an education. Several of us have said our curiosity is piqued. The center of the stage and the limelight is all yours.

I'm not sure I still want to do that just to be called a noob some more I'll just go back to not bothering with this section of the forum just like I did before, I think. 3 wild guesses why I'm not displaying faction loyalty for Cygnar or Orboros in my sig... thanks for the positive answer all the same :>

I'm afraid this won't really stand scrutiny. Nobody is calling you anything. We are calling your bluff. Show us it isn't a bluff and the world is your oyster.

[Menite Ninja]

I believe we need to all take a step back, a deep breath and realize what we are conversating about.

[Bakemono]

I believe we need to all take a step back, a deep breath and realize what we are conversating about.

True enough. The wild tangent initiated should probably become its own thread. The OP's question has long since been answered.

[Mattho2k3]

This reminds me of when everyone jumped on Will's back after he claimed Druids are overcosted and worthless.