Skorne super speed help

[tankrandall]

Ok so I played in a small (10 people) tounry on Saturday and I won 2/3 games. The only game I lost was to the winner who used a crazy fast Skorne list. No one in my FLGS plays Skorne so it was my first game vs them which I assume was the reason my jaw hit the table when he charged me on the top of turn 2. Not saying the level of competition was high but he assassinated his first opponent on turn 2 and his second on turn 3, I was the only one he didn't (he won by scernio) and I was the only one to kill one of his beasts (Titan Gladiator). He completely dominated the first two and I struggled but I think I put up a good fight.
His list was:

Supreme Archdomina Makeda
Archidon
Molik Karn
Titan Gladiator
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen Officer & Standard
Hakaar the Destroyer

Mine was:
Kara
Defender
Squire
Stormblades+UA+2WA
ATGM+UA+Hunter
Gorman
Reinholdt

His turn 1 was crazy movement....The Archidon went like 15" or something his swordsmen went 14 even the titan went 12.

So top of turn one I shot the titan gladiator because it was the only target the "big 3" were all in range of, Kara (twice), a Defender, and my Hunter I left it at like 8 boxes. I DIDNT use my feat because I assumed with his army being 14-18" away (I Had to use fire group to be in range!) that I would get a second turn of shooting and I would table him on turn 3. The Stormgunners assaulted 2 of his Swordsmen while the rest ran but he paid 1 fury to keep the one swordsman I did hit alive. The ATGM+UA killed 7 of his swordsmen at the far end of snipe shots.

His turn 2 was so sick...so very very sick. The swordsmen vengeance 3" closer his warlock did the +2 Movement and her feat. The swordsmen charged 11" into 2 stormblades and 2 of the ATGM. His swordsmen also used their minifeat and killed 4 stormblades and each moved 4" further into my lines while the 2 on the ATGM killed 3 and move 4" further to tie up just about all my SB and ATGM. Molik Karn charged 11" + reach into my hunter, rolled 6 6 5 on damage on the charge and was side stepping into the ATGM killing a few more by the time he reached his fury limit. His Archidon charged my defender and after leaving it with 1 cortex and a few on the hammer arm then threw it at Kara...

Now I fought on killing the rest of his swordsmen, the Titan (was a "human shield" for Makeda), and almost the Archidon but how are we supposed to deal with charge ranges larger than our shooting ranges, and they automatically do 1 damage so our arcane shielded troops.

[PG_relasine]

The big problem that your list has is that it doesn't have anything to absorb a charge. Stormblades, with their low DEF, single wound, middling ARM, and lack of survival abilities, don't exactly fit the bill here. What you need is something that can stand up front and take the steam out those incredible charge ranges. Boomhowlers, for example, would be a fantastic option here, especially if you add in Murdoch so that they can benefit from assault (ties in with Dead Eye, Firing Squad).

[tankrandall]

I don't disagree, I have been looking at the boomies for a while now I am just not ready to spend $100 on them, my to buy list is long and I am thinking about stormwall.

I don't think things would have gone that much different, with 4+ tough 2 of the 4 that were charged would have lived and both the boomies and the ATGM would still have been tied up.

[John of Arc]

The point is that they're going to die anyway, but they'll stick around long enough to be an annoyance and keep your important stuff alive. Boomhowler isn't required for this, but he's one of the best at it. You can also not move as far up as you did, or just pop your feat early to take out that important beast turn 1 instead of letting it live.

[nathrax]

As a Skorne player I can offer some advice, however it will be limited by my knowledge of Cygnar. First thing I noticed is that you probably had your Gun Mages in too tight of a formation. If there is one thing that can take the steam out of swordsmen in a hurry it is the lack of a target for their second melee attack. Next thing I noticed is that you got the Gladiator to 8 boxes. If your Feat would have allowed you to do those additional points if would have been well worth it. The Gladiator animus provides +2" MV and Pathfinder. Along that same line, having the ability to create any amount of rough terrain or ability to slow Skorne movement can really throw a wrench into the gameplan. Against Skorne, Swordknights tend to have a rough time with the faction having so many ways to inflict a single point of damage (Swordsmen, Slinger, PGBH, Solos, etc...).
In closing, I would suggest better spacing with your non-shieldwall units, Killing the Gladiator completely and slowing down Molik in any way possible. Trust me, Skorne get much easier to beat after you face them a few times.

Btw - he wasn't even playing that list fast and he was probably being conservative with Makeda. Molik has a legit 22-23" threat range.

[Cronix]

Take pCaine for a spin, he should take care of Hakaar and all the single wound models. While Stormblades can make a powerful assault on the warbeasts (snipe+dead eye), gun mages for board control.


Edit: Haley and spam temporal barrier (not so fast anymore) and take your time picking targets :P.

[Dolganar]

Take the Haileys. One lets you deny the charge, the 2nd allows you to get guaranteed two turns of shooting, plus you can send a Stormclad with 4 focus and a free attack with a 16 inch threat range. Another suggestion is do not shoot at the praetorians unless you can take out almost all of them, without vengeance they are not as fast.

[nathrax]

Just to help give you ideas of max walking threat ranges (w/ eMakeda, Gladiator, TyCom in list):
Makeda 10"
Cyclops 13" + Reach
Titan 11"
Archidon 14"
Swordsmen 10" + Vengeance
Nihilators 10" + Reach

[Cronix]

We are Cygnar we eat single wound for breakfast, the warbeasts are the problem here.
- pCaine can hunt unit, while the rest of the army goes for the big fish (there are fast armies out there, but the one man army is still fastest army in the game SPD 7 12" reach :P and can teleport away).
- eCaine can hunt 2~3 warbeast on is own with some help.
- Both Haley's make Skorne sad panda, both cripple melee heavy armies.
- pNemo he is special, he has solutions vs units and heavies.... but he is hard to master thanks to his old man DEF/ARM stats.
- eNemo he can play like a warlock (spells and full powered up warjacks), with a couple of Centurions that laugh at POW 9~12 that can't charge, you need to roll above avarge to do some some damage.
- Kara and Siege people with the big guns and dual Defender most of the time, hurt heavies before they even come near.
- Kraye, a pair of Hunters to kite Skone heavies and blitzkrieg heavy to finish them.

There are many ways to win against that list, but you need some melee heavy warjacks to do the job.

[rolandhadley]

Sloan is tough against a Makeda's speed list. It can be done, but as others have noted you can't use the storm blades as a tar pit - they'll just get run over.

Against this kind of list it helps to slow the infantry with something that causes auto damage - that means the Cyclone or Mage storm, which they can't just run through.

Then you need to concentrate all your heavy fire (Sloan shots, Defender, Hunter) to remove Molik Karn, probably feating to do so. Use the gun mages to clear out anything screening MK. The remaining charging beasts can kill some infantry or perhaps one of your jacks. But that's fine. Your gun mages can slowly kill the swordsmen, while your big shooters/infantry kill a beast a turn. You can attrition them down if you slow the infantry and get rid of MK early.

And don't forget you can thunderbolt back heavy beasts if need be.

[Soda Breeze]

Play pHaley and win, because Skorne has little effective shooting. eHexeris helps plenty with Black Spot, but most Skorne is melee-loaded because running combined arms doesn't exactly work out well. If you're not playing against Mordikaar (who can do bird-bomb Essence Blasts w/ Archidons that he can possibly angle to avoid Haley's spell cancellations), just TB and go from there. Leash + Road + Rush is still disgustingly effective, but not so much that a few marshalled Hunters won't eat his beasts alive before they get to you.

pCaine is also effective because of Thunderstrike + Teleport. If he puts his support behind the beasts, get an angle and blow the thing down before zooming off. Boomhowlers eat Nihilator/Immortal/beast charges easily (after outthreating because of Murdoch's Assault+Deadeye), then you pop feat against all the unengaged things due to KD and erase half the board. After that you can keep Thunderstriking the heavies while Sniped + Deadeye'd B13/Gun Mages hunt down Makeda or push things off points for scenario win.

[jking_3rd]

My suggestion is about a change of tactics vs Hordes.

Its tempting to not use boosted atk rolls on Hordes, b/c w/ WM we often don't need to boost. But Skorne especially requires every shot to count. So, when possible, Deadeye, espe,ially the SBs & ATGM.

I would start w the SBs to make the most of thier short distance. Then bring in the ATGM to push back/ KD. Then bring in the Cyclone for Covering Fire to protect your infantry vs other infantry. I also agree that it helps to onow about enemy models, like the Praetoreans Vengeance move.