Fastball Special

[Xarian]

Thinking of trying this with Rahn. Is it viable? Does anyone have any stories about when/how they've used it (not necessarily with Rahn)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastball_special

The general idea is that Rahn upkeeps Forcefield in order to maintain knockdown immunity. A Manticore then picks him up and throws him at an enemy warcaster, hitting and knocking them down. Rahn would then buy a lot of attacks and murder the enemy warcaster. Bonus points if the enemy warcaster is immune to knockdown and I can repeatedly Critical Smite them into a larger model/obstruction.

[Syfer22]

It CAN work, but it requires a lot of set up -- For instance, it requires the enemy warcaster/lock to be in throwing range of the Manticore and Rahn's position at the time the Manticore activates, since Rahn is only going to activate after he is thrown. Chances of that are pretty unlikely unless your opponent is really dumb, overconfident, or you've boxed him in (at which point you have a lot of ways to secure victory). I think the slightly more likely version would be for your Manticore to go to the enemy warcaster/lock, turned slightly, and huck said warcaster/lock back into your own army so that Rahn can then charge said knocked down warcaster/lock.

Since Rahn can't be knocked down with Force Field up, he will still have to sacrifice movement or action, but provided he lands right on the enemy warcaster/lock or within 2" of it, he won't have to move anyway.

[Dubstep]

lol if you like that idea, check out crocs and their wrastlers

[HyperDeath]

my next opponent is gonna get a big surprise....

[PG_Dawnlord Ed]

Since Rahn can't be knocked down with Force Field up, he will still have to sacrifice movement or action, but provided he lands right on the enemy warcaster/lock or within 2" of it, he won't have to move anyway.

For this reason, don't get excited. For it to work you must either hit the target or deviate within 2 inches. I see this as a hail mary and not a viable kill condition.

[Honken]

How will this work in practice?
Do the manticore need to roll to hit before throwing Rahn?

-edit-

Got an answer to the question in the above post

[Xarian]

For this reason, don't get excited. For it to work you must either hit the target or deviate within 2 inches. I see this as a hail mary and not a viable kill condition.

Well, the point isn't to win so much as to win with style.

Also, Ret has plenty of OOA movement stuff, including but not limited to smiting your own Rahn through the enemy WC to guarantee a knockdown.

[Jestor]

Couldn't you just TK yourself (throwing Rahn will cost you 2 focus, one for the throw, one for the boost to hit, possibly a third to boost to hit the opposing caster) for the same or less focus, charge for the free damage boost and be better off?

Why fly 6" when you can charge 4"?

If you want real style why not throw the enemy caster at Rahn

[EricTheFat]

I don't have my rulebook near me and didn't look at FAQ's but my understanding is that if an effect would cause a model with knockdown immunity to be knocked down by a friendly action in a player's own turn they forfeit their activation... is this not the case? Wouldn't throwing Rahn then automatically cause him to forfeit his activation?

[EricTheFat]

Couldn't you just TK yourself (throwing Rahn will cost you 2 focus, one for the throw, one for the boost to hit, possibly a third to boost to hit the opposing caster) for the same or less focus, charge for the free damage boost and be better off?

Why fly 6" when you can charge 4"?

If you want real style why not throw the enemy caster at Rahn

Haha. Good call there Jestor. Waste of time and focus anyway, even if it is a legal move. You'd be better off throwing a different model at the enemy caster and then just charging Rahn in after he's already knocked down. Rahn has a respectable 11" threat range on the charge and that's without factoring in TK which would boost it to 13"... 15" if he TK's the knocked down caster. Anyway, if it's even legal, Dawnlord Ed had it right when he said it's not a viable kill condition. Rahn has WAY too many other threats to present an enemy caster without being thrown.

[Syfer22]

I don't have my rulebook near me and didn't look at FAQ's but my understanding is that if an effect would cause a model with knockdown immunity to be knocked down by a friendly action in a player's own turn they forfeit their activation... is this not the case? Wouldn't throwing Rahn then automatically cause him to forfeit his activation?

If a model with knockdown immunity is knocked down on their turn, they must forfeit movement or action. If a model without immunity is knocked down on their turn, they forfeit their activation.

[EricTheFat]

If a model with knockdown immunity is knocked down on their turn, they must forfeit movement or action. If a model without immunity is knocked down on their turn, they forfeit their activation.

Ah, thank you Syfer. I knew I heard something about that, just couldn't put my finger on it. Interesting.

[AJ the Ronin]

That move was called "The flying Drakhum" back in Mk.1 and the rule Syfer mentioned I'm sure was specifically made that way to stop all those Drakhum from flying.

And boy did they fly...

[Lord Sessadore]

That move was called "The flying Drakhum" back in Mk.1 and the rule Syfer mentioned I'm sure was specifically made that way to stop all those Drakhum from flying.

And boy did they fly...

Yeah, that was a pretty incredible horse. Not only carrying a MOW, but staying on its feet (and not breaking its legs) after getting hurled, all while keeping the MOW mounted!

... No wonder that got the nerf bat.

[Syfer22]

Yeah, that was a pretty incredible horse. Not only carrying a MOW, but staying on its feet (and not breaking its legs) after getting hurled, all while keeping the MOW mounted!

Not to mention the horse landing into a charge. Crazy stuff.

Granted, Cryx could do it too with the crabjacks, but let's be honest -- Crabjacks had an excuse as to why they could do it. There's no way they're as heavy as a Drakhun.

[Xarian]

Well, no free strikes on the toss, you have a lot more focus to buy attacks, and extra damage/knockdown. You won't get as much mileage out of a charge...

[Syfer22]

Well, no free strikes on the toss, you have a lot more focus to buy attacks, and extra damage/knockdown. You won't get as much mileage out of a charge...

If you're talking about the Rahn idea, well...

If you just charge, you have your initial charge attack and 8 focus to work with. If you somehow manage to find yourself in position to huck Rahn at the enemy warcaster then you are automatically feeding your warjack 2 focus (3 if you want to boost to hit on the enemy warcaster), and if you don't have Sylys, you're also spending 1 focus to upkeep Force Field. At minimum you will find yourself with no charge attack bonus and 6 focus to work with (on a hopefully knocked down warcaster/lock at least), at most you find yourself with no charge attack bonus and 4 focus to work with. Unless, of course, the throw misses the enemy warcaster/lock and you have a really bad deviation.

It IS true that there are no free strikes on the toss, but also keep in mind that when Rahn goes in, he will most likely have most if not all of his focus -- ARM 26 doesn't really care about most free strikes.

[Jestor]

Well, no free strikes on the toss, you have a lot more focus to buy attacks, and extra damage/knockdown. You won't get as much mileage out of a charge...

You only travel half the distance of the strength of the tossing model. You travel in a straight line. You can not pass over any base the same size or larger.

Find me a condition where Rahn would die to free strikes, can't just walk in to combat but could get thrown there. It doesn't exist. With reach and TK he can literally take care of 4" on his own. That means, at some point, he needs to walk 2". If the board is so cluttered he can't walk 2", you aren't getting in to melee with a throw anyways.

Ok, I guess if your opponent perfectly lines up this -

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0.0
0.0
0.0
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Yeah, when that situation arises in a game, I would just move Rahn up, knock their caster back by spells and kill 4 dudes in melee and have the jack walk up and kill the other two. More efficient.

Nice idea of trying to think outside the box guys but it just doesn't work in reality.

[Xarian]

You also add 1" because Rahn is on a small base, and you could chuck him through difficult terrain and shallow/deep water without invoking the movement penalties. Also, when the Hyperion comes out, he can throw 9" (Manticore 7.5" with the extra focus). Also works against models that are immune to being charged, doesn't invoke Admonition/Counter Slam/Counter Blast/etc (because Rahn will be sacrificing his movement), can target models who are spell immune, works from on top of hills (which would require extra movement), and can target stealthed models normally (since it's all melee attacks).

[Jestor]

You also add 1" because Rahn is on a small base

No you don't. The measurement is exactly as if he were moving in a straight line.

[Xarian]

No you don't. The measurement is exactly as if he were moving in a straight line.

Yes, you do. Prime, page 55, lower left corner. "A large-based model throwing a small-based model adds 1" to this distance".

[GunSeraph06]

I remember this being discussed with the Harbinger of Menoth back in MK I, toss her, activate her, feat, and cataclysm/auto-hitting melee attacks until dead. The original "hail mary"...

[Jestor]

Yes, you do. Prime, page 55, lower left corner. "A large-based model throwing a small-based model adds 1" to this distance".

Sorry, misunderstood, thought you were talking about adding in his base (I've seen that more then once at large tournaments).