Now writing for Neomorte.com
"Almost only counts with hand grenades and horseshoes... And black oil."
For Kith and Kriel: Your Guide to All Things Trollbloods. Ver. 2.0
Personally I'd say they're FA: 2 because they're not characters. If they're warjacks, following suit would put them as FA: U but I suppose that could get problematic in some cases. Battle Engines are FA: 2 as well, so there is some precedent for huge base models to go on. I think it'd be hard to have them as FA: 1 and not FA: C, because then why are they only allowed one while other warjacks have no limit. I also think that having 2 of them seems like it will have some applications, and also have some draw backs since they're so many points. If you want to spend 36-40 points on 2 models, I say go for it!
It's all about the Benjamin's, baby.
Why are Calvary only FA:1 then?
I'll take on FA2 Colossals. Bring it on. Building a list to stop them does not need allot of creative thought. Looking very much forward to facing against sets of two colossals in the future.
Last edited by Samhordes; 06-18-2012 at 09:10 AM.
If my opponent brings 2 colossals at 35 points, I bring eCaine, Gorman DiWulfe, Squire and Reinholdt.
That's 5 points and a warcaster to kill one, and although I'm not 100% sure about how the math on this works, I'm pretty sure the other 35 points of my list could kill a colossal no matter what they're used for.
Sure, 2 colossals is going to be rough to deal with outside of utterly insane situations like eCaine feating. But you absolutely do not need to 1 round them (unless you're against Darius, in which case go and win on scenario instead) and a list at 35 points with 2 colossals will have nothing else in it.
As far as I know, the fluff for Colossals (don't have the book, just read some of it) demonstrates that the nations have built huge foundries construction sites specifically for colossals. The biggest and most expensive hurdle for making something like a colossal would be building the facility capible of producing them. Once that's done mass-production is just a matter of materials.
For example; The Galleon fluff talks about the company that made it refitting a bay normally used to build ships in order to build the galleon. After that's accomplished, building a second galleon isn't much harder than building the first. Niether is the third, or the fourth galleon any harder. The materials required look to be in the range of about 3-4 heavy warjacks worth of raw materials, and while that's very expensive, it's not difficult for the military nations to come up with.
In terms of comparing it to something like the Behemoth and Thunderhead, those are characters because they're experimental prototypes, which were made individually at great expense. Actually it's easy to see a lot of the Behemoth's influence in the Conquest, and the Thunderhead's influence in the Stormwall. Both are massive by warjack standards, and the sorts of systems and equipment they pack are very similar to their respective faction's Colossals. However, both the Behemoth and Thunderhead pack equipment unique and expensive to themselves, such as the Behemoth's double-cortex, and the fact that the Thunderhead is run purely on electricity.
So why would they be able to make multiple colossals? Because they already have the means to make one colossal, so they obviously have the means to make more. By contrast why don't they make more Thunderheads and Behemoths? They could, but it's generally expressed that the costs would not justify the results.
There's probably logistic issues in there as well in terms to the limited deploy-ability of the Behemoth and Thunderhead. I'm not sure what it takes to recharge the Thunderhead, and the Behemoth probably consumes tremendous quantities of ammunition as even it's melee attacks are ballistic weapons.
Anyways, that's the fluff justification for it in my opinion. I see no mechanical reason why they can't be FA:2.
Last edited by Lanz; 06-18-2012 at 09:05 AM.
"If at first you don't succeed, label it version 1.0."
Random economic reasons, my guess is to help keep production costs down. PP has stated that the rule on a card that most affects cost is FA. FA: C colossals may of cost nearly $200, since you'll only ever buy one for your army. FA:1 isn't as bad, but still makes it so that most people only buy one, making them likely to be more expensive.
FA:2 means you can buy multiples and use them in most normal games. This also has a benefit of making it so they can make more, and so make them cheaper as a result. Whether this was in the planning of how they were designed or not is one thing, but the idea that it was done to make them desirable purchases save for the "Gotta catch 'em all" seems reasonable to me.
Kinda funny the only jacks in mark2 fa2 are colossals and renegades! lol
"You'd be a lot better at this game if you weren't so terrible."
I think it would be very intersting to see how a two collosal list performs at 35. I honestly think it would turn into an extreme game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, but hey ... maybe I'm wrong.
Last edited by Dan from Chicago; 06-18-2012 at 10:00 AM. Reason: grammar
What it turns into is Player with two colossals kills any threat to it and sits back and wins as his opponent slams his head into the wall.
Dont you remember all the other DOOOOOM!!! threads where people were pointing out how easy it is for weapon master infantry to take down collossals, and that they'd be "terrible"?
Last edited by The_Bionic_Labrat; 06-18-2012 at 10:09 AM.
But colossals can't one round every single threat to them on the board all at once when they're spread out on two points. You're grossly overestimating the damage they can do. I mean, countering any colossal for Cryx right now is pretty much as simple as either apply Banes, or if you cannot apply enough Banes, apply Satyxis and Feedback the warcaster to death.
What, praytell, is your super double colossal army who teleports across the board to get to your victory point before you do going to do about, in no particular order:
2: Heavy smashing
6: Being totally ignored in favor of going for the warcaster
'cause I can't figure out one single thing a colossal can do about being totally ignored as stealthed units kill the warcaster, or what it could do about being charged by a primaled Feral Warpwolf, or a Bronzeback, or eating eCaine's feat, or any number of a dozen things used to kill a conventional heavy warjack.
I can't see why everyone is worried about people wanting two in their list. What does it matter? There's basically a counter for everything in WM no unit,WJ, Beast, WE, of Collossal are invincible. Some units or some crazy good war caster can work around most things in this game regardless, especially if you play them right. E.Skarre for example her feat makes those two Collossal's observers for one round as I either walk past them and nail the caster, or I work them over for one round without being worried about being squashed by it. So let them use these guys as a point sink if they want to. If anyone is ballsy enough to put them in there at the lower point games I don't think they would be worth it. I love my infantry units more than I like my warjacks to tell you the truth anyhow. I have a few jacks I like but I usually run pretty jack light and infantry heavy anyhow and I can't see this changing too much with the addition of Collossals just means whatever I'm trying to kill isn't spread out so much. Knights/Banes Thralls will eat a Collossal just as well as they would a WJ, the only issue they would have is the squashing bit if they fail to kill it in a timely manner. But regardless anything they dish out on this bad boy would be worth the points to knock off a 19 or 20 point model. Seems like a fair trade to me. Just because they are FA 2 doesn't mean everyone will use it.
As a new cryx player the first thing I'm reaching for when I hear of a upcoming colossal are my pistol wraiths =D
"Why build one when you can have two at twice the price"
I agree with the OP. I don't like the fact that they are FA2.
My Khador army and display table. http://privateerpressforums.com/show...71#post1728071
EDIT: HERP DERP ME DUMB. I completely forgot AP is balls against small bases. Yeah, it's 6.25 damage on average then.
I love how people put casters in a Vacuum, Eiyrss dies very easily to cygnar armies. It doesnt matter. I still think they should of been FA:1
I've stood toe to toe using Vlad3 against a Stormwall for a turn and walked away with 8 boxes left, color me not that worried.
Boxus -Rocksong Family Mercenary Company alchemical fixit PygmyOriginally Posted by Valander
Regardless, if anything for colossals is game breaking, I doubt it will be the FA:2. 2" weapon locks seem emphatically more stupid than simply being able to have a second colossal. The ability to grab a Stormclads sword and have the model be both physically incapable of breaking the lock or attacking with the other weapon just seems dumb.