Force Hammer: Am I Missing Something?

[Sardonic Artery]

I've seen the love mentioned for force hammer on one of the N3mo threads. While I haven't run our latest incarnation of the squishy old man yet, at four focus, I've maybe cast force hammer from Siege once. Is force hammer one of those spells that requires an arc node to be great, or have I just missed something all this time? Boosting to hit (with no squire re-roll) feels painful.

[PG_Dawnlord Ed]

Boosting to hit (with no squire re-roll) feels painful.

I think this is your problem. You don't Force Hammer the target you want to hit (generally). You Force Hammer the warjack standing nearby over the target you want to hit. If the enemy isn't being obliging you can aways run a Lancer (or whatever) up to the target and then slam the Lancer over it. Now you are hitting it on 5s (or your Stormclad is autohitting). It will also remove something from a zone, which can be game winning (although this is a bit corner case).

However, I don't see it as being very awesome with Nemo3. IMHO, Nemo wants to kill you by leaping or by Thunderhead. Nemo thinks rolling to hit is for chumps. But, it's still a solid spell and the ability to slam at range can't be undersold. Just be careful with focus. It's a bank buster.

[sleet01]

I've been using Force Hammer and Thunder Strike a lot more since I started playing mostly scenario games. To my mind, it has three major benefits:

1) KD whatever you Force Hammer / Thunder Strike a model into. This is a great way around the crazy-high DEF a lot of casters and warlocks are sporting. Also fun versus bunched-up Zealots that think they're completely safe from all magic and damage, but don't have a way to get around KD.
2) Remove whatever you Force Hammer / Thunder Strike from a zone. This can mean the difference between winning and losing in some cases.
3) POW 14 on things that can't be targeted by spells or ranged attacks, or are hiding behind things. It removes Choirboys like nobody's business. Collateral damage also avoids effects that activate on "enemy attack hits" or "enemy attack damages".

[Nierak]

Force hammer to knock down the model behind the target i.e caster. Or forcehammer to free your jack from combat to charge caster etc.

Its basically access to a high cost ranged slam attack. I've only a few games with siege under my belt but one of the wins was a forcehammer to knock down a high def caster. Then the gunmages kept firing until he stopped twitching.

Its high cost because most non crit knockdown effects are high cost.

[sleet01]

It's also a ranged attack that casters can make before they move. If Siege, eNemo, or Caine gets engaged by some fast enemy then this spell will let you disengage and move; whether or not the POW 14 kills the target, the d6" slam will remove it and KD it, so your caster will be free to walk away.

In my 2nd game with cNemo I used Force Hammer to slam an Impaler away from my front lines and into another Troll beast, KDing the Impaler, freeing up my heavies to charge, and doing half the Impaler's wounds in one swell foop. Since I walked Nemo into melee with it I didn't have to worry about the in-melee penalty, and at the same time was able to move Nemo up to cover more area with his gun, which I was also able to shoot because Nemo was no longer engaged. I'll happily pay 4 Focus for that kind of utility when I need it.

[GreenJello]

I'd agree with your assessment. It's a very expensive spell, and almost needs to be game winning to justify it's usage. With Nemo3 at least he starts at FOC7, not 6 for Caine1 and Siege.

[Joasht]

I cast Force Hammer and Thunderstrike regularly; as in, usually, once a game, but often across the games I play. A positionable ranged slam is incredibly powerful and generally absolutely game-changing when done right. When I play casters like Siege or pCaine, I often ask myself at the start of my turn, "is there anything I can slam?". Having it near the top of my priority keeps me remembering when to use it.

[John of Arc]

I would recommend a Lancer for it, too. That let's you get off better angles. You're already taking one for Chain Lightning, right? :P

[Defenstrator]

I'm honestly surprised that people seem to be eager to leave the Lancer at home with N3mo. Chain Lightning is something you want to get out early, once the armies close your jacks will be demanding focus and you will have lost the opportunity to soften them up. Likewise Force hammer calls out for an arc node. The increase of threat range and greater range of angles of attack make it a near requirement to get full use of the spell.

[Sanguinary Dan]

Nemo without a Lancer is like a day without sunshine. I've even used Thorn with him a number of times and never been disappointed. If only Thead had an Arc Node.

[Soundsofascience]

New release in gargantuans! 3-5pt solo that repairs the stormwall and turns lightning pods into arc nodes!!!

I can dream, can't I?

[whats82]

Lancer for Chain lighting doesn't feel like a necessity for 3mo if you're taking a WALL. You can already bounce off a huge amount of lighting from the pod which you can usually plop down beside their non-backline caster.

Of course 3mo has force hammer so taking a lancer with him makes a lot of sense, but I'm just saying taking a lancer for chain lighting alone isn't exactly worthwhile, to me at least.

[vintersbastard]

3) POW 14 on things

I'd be a lot more impressed if Force Hammer actually had Pow 14; sadly, it's only a measly Pow 12. In most cases, another Chain Lightning will do the trick as well, I'd think (the KD over distance notwithstanding). Why they didn't give him Thunderstrike (the name would even be more fitting!) is beyond me.

[leo_neil316]

3) POW 14 on things that can't be targeted by spells or ranged attacks, or are hiding behind things. It removes Choirboys like nobody's business. Collateral damage also avoids effects that activate on "enemy attack hits" or "enemy attack damages".

Thunderstrike is POW 14, Force hammer is POW 12.

[sleet01]

Yeah, I confused the two. For some reason I thought they had the same POW.

[Sardonic Artery]

Okay, don't feel like I'm missing anything then, at least not with Siege. With N3mo, a lancer will be standard at first (I do love chain lightning), so I might get force hammer off from time to time.

Strange, there's a good Ret player in my meta who swears by it. Does Ret do force hammer better?

[Gatored]

Strange, there's a good Ret player in my meta who swears by it. Does Ret do force hammer better?

Rahn was my favorite caster to play in game when i owned Ret Force hammer was clutch. When i went to my LGS about a week about and read nemo3's card i bought him and a lancer and now I am on my way in playing this Faction when i said i'd never would.

[Kraye]

I don't think your missing anything, but I personally will cast this on Siege 100% of the time given the opportunity to knock down a caster, I've won more than a few games with it. Seems like others have as well. I don't remember though if the collateral damage on it is boostable, but even 12 + 3d can wreck some serious havoc for only 4 focus (I rarely boost because its a large jack being targeted and I have squire re-roll on Siege damn near 100% of the time).

[sleet01]

I saw a match on Vassal where a Siege army basically tabled a Cassius list, but the Cassius player pulled it out in the end because the Siege player forgot about Force Hammer. Cassius was down to cutting himself and getting maybe 1 or 2 fury from his one remaining light, but he was in a great position to yo-yo out and strike at Siege and his battlegroup, who were all grouped together. With only about 10 wounds left Cassius charged Siege and managed to trap Siege in a 'C'-shaped cul de sac made by his warjacks around him, and simultaneously engage all the ranged warjacks. I *believe* he then cast Stranglehold on Siege, and took him down to about half health with attacks.

The Siege player tried to smash Cassius a few times but missed most of his hammer swings. I want to say he sent his Charger and Defender over to pummel him as well (since they couldn't shoot him without leaving melee and taking free strikes) and that those failed too.. Next turn, Cassius cut himself down to 1 health and stabbed Siege to death in full view of his helpless warjacks.

Thing is, if he'd used Force Hammer to slam Cassius away, Siege and his BG could have then made at least three ranged attacks against a DEF 5 Knocked-Down Cassius who, if he'd lived, would have been in no position any longer to counter-assassinate. Ever since I saw that game, I've had no difficulty reminding myself to watch for Force Hammer / Thunder Strike opportunities.

Edit: @Kraye, collateral damage is not boostable, but the slam damage is and stacks with the extra die from hitting a larger model or obstruction. 12+4d6 hurts things quite well.

[phreaker187]

Force Hammer is one of those corner case spells than can be good in the right situation. You probably won't see it every game, but it isn't horrible.

[Panzeh]

You haven't seen Force Hammer until you've seen Adeptis Rahn use it. Being able to fling twice with boosted+deadeyed(wishnailer) attack and damage rolls is amazing.

[Sardonic Artery]

Ah, that explains the Ret love.

Also, I should learn to not shortchange knockdown.

[sleet01]

Things KD is nice for: neutralizing warjacks when combined with Disruption. Allowing CRAs on models previously in melee. Avoiding Free Strikes. Getting around minus-dice feats, effects, or damaged systems. These are all things cNemo has at least a passing interest in.