Problems against Hordes with multiple Heavies

[Iceman8352]

Greetings, all. I was playing my 50 point eHaley list tonight against some Trolls, and needless to say, I lost. This is the second game in a row that I've lost to a Hordes army with 2+ heavy warbeasts. This time it was an Earthborn Dire Troll, and a Dire Troll Mauler. Last time, it was against Legion with Typhon, a Ravagor (Think thats the name), and a Sereph. My list seems to do pretty well against Warmachine, but Hordes seems to keep getting me. Here is my 50 point list:

eHaley
-Squire
-Stormclad (Bonded)
-Thorn
-Cyclone
ATGM w/UA
Stormblades w/UA
Precursor Knights w/UA (Full)

Now, I've read several places that Stormblades should be able to handle enemy heavies. They've done pretty decent against Warjacks, but if they don't take out an enemy warbeast, the warlock usually heals the beast enough to be a threat, and then the beast decimates the unit. Even my Stormclad has some trouble taking on some warbeasts, and if it doesn't kill the beast, then the Stormclad usually follows the 'Blades. The Cyclone isn't exactly a heavy hitter, so it isn't doing me a lot of good on that front.

So, I'm really thinking that having another 'actual' heavy may be a good idea. Initially, I'm thinking either a Hammersmith or Centurion. Maybe Ol'Rowdy. Perhaps dropping either the Stormblades or Precursors, I'm not sure which. Both are fairly good against opposing infantry, but I'm liking that I can draw line of sight through the PKs.

I'm pretty sure that I'll be dropping the Cyclone for a Storm Strider as soon as I'm able to get one. That would give me some more ranged punch, and the electro-leap lets it be pretty decent at tearing through some units.

I know that a lot of advice will probably suggest that I find a way to add in the Piper or Jr to make the Stormblades more survivable, but it hasn't been overly beneficial in the situations I've been in. This is the list that I'm working on for an upcoming SR2012 tournament coming up. Maybe I should play this more against Warmachine and come up with another list against Hordes. Thoughts?

[Sanguinary Dan]

The most glaring issue is your complete lack of Storm Gunners. Haley has Deadey, use it. I've flash fried anything from Beast09 to Typhon with a bunch of auto hitting lightning bolts. Not to mention the fact that going from RNG6 to RNG12 gives you a dramatic psy advantage. Suddenly your opponent is worried about your 20" threat range with up to 3 POW14 shots. Of course you could always just hold them back till they can use the full weight of Assault and throw in their melee attacks as well.

The Storm Strider is great, but don't expect it to last very long against a heavy beast with reach. You might do better with a Centurion. It can be surprisingly effective against beasts when Haley turns them backwards with a spell.

[Iceman8352]

As far as using Deadeye on the Stormblades, I've done that each time I've gone to engage a heavy with them. Hitting DEF 12 when you have boosted RAT 5 isn't too difficult. In the game I played last night, I assaulted 6 Stormblades up against a Dire Troll. All of the assault shots hit, but did very meager damage. Then, only four of them were able to get in melee with the beast, and their attacks didn't do much better than the lightning shots. Not to mention, that I managed to roll all of the damage in such a way that it didn't take out any branches of the health spiral.

I plan on playing a few more games before I make any final decisions, but I'm really starting to think that my eHaley list should be used mainly against Warmachine. Warjacks aren't as easily repaired as Warbeasts are healed, and I'm thinking that may be my problem. The list seems to do pretty well against most of my Warmachine opponents, so maybe I need to come up with an anti-horde list.

[Hoffburger]

A&H, Ragman, Lanyssa + Forgeguard or Storm Lances = dead heavy and possibly dead colossal if you combine Ragman and A&H.

edit - stupid phone autocorrect

[Lagrider]

Well looking at your list it is basically designed to kill infantry. I personally am not a huge fan of precursor knights or stormblades with Ehailey but as they do provide punch we'll leave them in. I personally would downgrade the Thorn to a lancer and replace the cyclone with a hunter jack marshalled to the dude. This leaves you with 5 points that I would use on support like the piper to give toughness to the PK's and arlan to powerboost the hunter. Alton Ashley is only a great option for helping knockout beasts and Gorman de wulf can effectively shut one down with black oil. Using the double tap from a temporaly accelerated hunter, which can also use snipe to hit a beast in the enemy deployment zone on first turn, and alton you will almost definitely knock out a branch of a warbeast each turn minimum.

[phreaker187]

Our heavies typically can't 1 round a heavy unless we get really lucky on hit and damage rolls. The key is to soften it up with a hunter or other big hitter, then charge with our heavies. Easier said than done of course, but multi-heavy beast lists are one of our big weaknesses.

[Sanguinary Dan]

Our heavies typically can't 1 round a heavy unless we get really lucky on hit and damage rolls. The key is to soften it up with a hunter or other big hitter, then charge with our heavies. Easier said than done of course, but multi-heavy beast lists are one of our big weaknesses.

Sad, but true. We don't seem to have any of the pure melee asskickin' seen in some other factions. Our one "if it hits it keeps on hitting" jack, the Thunderhead, is what I've seen called "pillow fisted". It's P&S16 fists just don't hit hard enough to do much to another heavy. And of course the idea of shooting one to death is a straight up joke.

I'm sure there is a way for us to go toe to toe when we are out numbered 1.5 to 1 or more. I just don't really know what it might be.

[jking_3rd]

I personally don't see much of an issue w/ your list. Though I would certainly advise the incorporation of other solos to help add dmg. A&H, Ragman, or especially Gormon could help you add more damage. And don't discount the value of ATGM Thunderbolt pushback shots. It is the single most annoying aspect of that unit. Especially for slower models.

I think you should leave the cyclone in for infantry support. The other thing is to remember Cyclone's double hand throw. eHaley's spell Telekenisis can move a jack awesomely forward. Then move forward, angle the cyclone so your front arc faces both the enemy model faces both the enemy & your own troops, and throw it towards your troops. Charge in to kill the now knocked down model. If you happen to activate the jack before Haley, you can use her to move the jack back defensively.

And remember when facing Hordes, the warlock gains spells from the heavy beast, & must be in CTRL range to pull fury (focus equivalent). A particulary efficient way to nueter your Hordes enemy is to throw thier beast out of thier CTRL. Also, keep in mind damage on the lock, is often shuffled to the beasts (if they have fury) and that is also an easy way to kill a beast.