Scourge of heresy

[UmbrellaCorp487]

Is there a reason that no one seems to field this jack I was thinking about replacing my crusader in my eSevvy list for him, thoughts?

[MetaphoricDragon]

Most of the ire towards SoH comes from the fact it is slow, has no reach, and ditched the Vanquisher's best weapon for a melee weapon. That being said, from surfing the forums people seem to e warming up to it a bit lately, a lot of speculation he may be good vs Colossals, and we do have a number of Casters now that can increase a 'jacks speed.

[Charming]

He is SPD4 and doesn't have reach, which is quite a problem for his threat ranges. He is also only worth it over a crusader against targets with defensive upkeeps on them, and might thus many times not be worth 3p more than a crusader.

On the other hand you might want to look into getting the Fire of Salvation, Kreoss character jack. It's SPD5 and has the ability Righteous Vengeance which further enhances its threat.

[Matthaeus]

It seems to be considered overkill in a majority of cases, though I'm still scratching my head at that considering we're in a world where the Bronzeback exists and sees use.
For all its brutality, though, it's not faster than your good ol' Crusader.

Recent developments could give it a niche as a good colossal wrecker, seeing as they will likely benefit from spell support.

[Lanz]

The SoH is suddenly cool now. It's a great colossal-killer. If you're actually using Reznik, Purgation + Arcane Assassin = one messed up colossal.

However, outside of this, no, it's generally not considered worth its points as it's biggest strength is killing stuff, and it passes well into the overkill range in that department.

[Alzer]

I've been toying around with Scourge as a second-line jack with Reznik. There are a couple things that make him an upgrade to the Crusader, I think the bigest one is the off hand is P+S16 Threasher instead of P+S 14 open fist. It's a little less trixy but not less versatile by any means. (I end up using Thresher on my standard Vanquisher reasonably often).

The big thing with Scourge is that half of the toys are dependent on your enemy. The speed is something I don't see as a problem since I use the thing as a counter-charger in my second wave. Nothing keeps big-bads out of your infantry like the promise of a Jack with P+S 20 and P+S 18 initials at Mat 9 next turn. Heck I usually just ditch the choir with Reznik since Scourge doesn't need more damage and I can give Iron Agression to my other heavy. Plus it keeps me from stopping them from activating WH.

[jandrese]

The big problem with the SoH is that it is SPD 4 and doesn't have Reach, the second biggest problem is that it is slightly more killy than a Crusader, for a whopping 50% price premium. There are a couple of situations where it comes out much better, but one of them appeared only recently and the other was on a single caster (pVlad with Blood of Kings).

Mostly though, if you did have one of the weird situations where the SoH really shines, it suddenly has a very big target on it and really really hates the terrible 7.5" threat range. I think eeKreoss may see some use with this, as Warpath is pretty nice on slow warjacks. Reznik could theoretically make it better with Purgation, but that spell is almost guaranteed to fail in some way if you need it to move the SoH up, that's Murphey's Law (it basically has too many restrictions to be a killer spell, it has to hit, has to damage, the closest enemy model must be in the right direction, it's on a FOC 6 caster).

[mactac]

Does anyone else every time this thread comes up, wish to menoth it could wrack the crap outta people.
I was hoping it was going to wield a wrack or something.
That or have something like the sanctifier with soul collecting, so many cool ideas.

[jandrese]

Frankly, had Reznik just replaced the Flail instead of the Gun with the Sword we wouldn't be having this conversation. The problem is that Reznik is an idiot.

[Alzer]

I....yeah. What Janderese said. All the other character gun-heavies (Malice, Triumph, Black Ivan) Kept their gun. Apparently Reznik doesn't love Napalm enough.

[Demeritus]

I am one of the few who likes and has run Scourge of Heresy. Yes it is slow, and it isn't cheap but it does have some perks and some nice abilities. It isn't a jack I pull out all of the time but the games I have played it, it has made an impact.

[PG_dungeongod]

Frankly, had Reznik just replaced the Flail instead of the Gun with the Sword we wouldn't be having this conversation. The problem is that Reznik is an idiot.

This. Just... this.

Seriously - if it had the gun, I would probably take it way more often. As it is, I don't know that I have run it more than once - ever. I have too many other options for shutting down opposing spell casting (zealots, exemplar errants, etc), and it tends to be such overkill as to not matter. If it had reach, or it's gun, it would be worth it I think.

[jandrese]

There is no doubt that if given the chance, the SoH will wreck face. It is just an inefficient tool for the job.

[Terraneaux]

It would have been nice if he had the ability to pull focus off of wracks or something fluffy like that.

[mactac]

It would have been nice if he had the ability to pull focus off of wracks or something fluffy like that.

Now that would be a cool idea, something with wracks is totally in the fluff.

[Pixl]

So he got SPD4, as most crusader chassi jacks so I don't se how that has anything to do with it. That he lost his gun is my main issue, but with reznik for example I want my jacks to have as many initial melee attacks as possible to make use out of Iron Agressions boosts as much as possible. Sure it couldmhave a gun but then why not just use a vanquisher as it has a gun

I in general like SoH with reznik, even though at first glance it seemed to me like witch hound and SoHs abillity to counter magic would work against each other but soon realized if people don't want to trigger witch hound they will target choire/vassals instead and if they are within 3" of SoH you can negate that

[jandrese]

The downside is that Reznik doesn't have a lot of focus to just leave on his warjacks in the hope that your opponent casts a spell near them.

[Soulblighter]

Most of the ire towards SoH comes from the fact it is slow, has no reach, and ditched the Vanquisher's best weapon for a melee weapon. That being said, from surfing the forums people seem to e warming up to it a bit lately, a lot of speculation he may be good vs Colossals, and we do have a number of Casters now that can increase a 'jacks speed.

Its not even that really. Its more the fact its blatantly overcosted by 1 point. If SoH was 1 point cheaper itd be totally worth using to fill gaps in certain lists.

[paradox]

IF you can deliver SoH, THEN he kicks really, really hard.

It's mainly about figuring out timing and delivery.

[MeniteTom]

All it needed was Reach and then NOBODY would be complaining.

[ZealousJohnny]

I understand the complaints about SOH not keeping the vanquishers gun, but surely if he had kept it any improvements to the jacks melee potential would have forced it to be priced pretty high? Even if the changes were just to give it that sword, at 9 points it would be a pretty tempting improvement over the regular vanquisher. Add in the other abilities and I think either the points cost would have to rise quite a bit or it would start edging out the Vanquisher in most situations.

I may very well be wrong here, but that's my feeling on the thing. This does not mean I'd be against getting a 'true' character vanquisher. That would be brilliant

[Bishop84]

I don't think of Scourge as a Vanquisher that traded the gun for a sword, but rather a Crusader that traded the open fist for a flail. At that point I compare it to Fire of Salvation. In most situations, FoS is the better buy but in some lists and especially against some lists, Scourge will really shine. It's a more niche 'jack, but it has some great abilities.

[Terraneaux]

Arcane Vortex is probably better with casters who have Sacrificial Lamb since you can go in, do your thing, then afterwards have the caster put some focus on you so that you can use Arcane Vortex.

[jandrese]

Ironically, that doesn't include Reznik, who would otherwise seem to be a pretty fluffy guy to have Sac Lamb.

[Bishop84]

Ironically, that doesn't include Reznik, who would otherwise seem to be a pretty fluffy guy to have Sac Lamb.

There's always hope for eReznik.

[koreandog]

SoH fits Reznik, since he is focus efficient for putting the beats on someone.

Sort of off topic, but relevant...

Is it just me or is giving thresher without reach kind of a mean thing to do with SoH/Vanquisher? I think he might be the only model that has thresher without reach...

[Alzer]

Actual Cygnar has a Trencher Character with a non-reach Thresher also.

I've found that when it's time to use Thresher, reach doesn't matter on the Vanquisher. Generally it either gets bunched up in medium-based infantry where there are only 2-3 to get in, or enemy heavies. Since you already killed all their single-wound infantry with the Flame Belcher.

SoH would be amazing if it got reach-thresher on the main hand, but it doesn't. I've still used it sucessfully with not only Scourge but also my Vanquisher a number of times.

I could actually see Scourge running well with Kr3oss. Warpath yourself up after a Thresher and crunch something.

[jandrese]

The worst part about Thresher on the SoH is the lack of Reach. The second worst thing is that it has a second, better, melee weapon, so the Thresher doesn't even start to make sense until you have three targets in your non-Reach range.

Like I said, Reznik is an idiot.

[Alzer]

I don't think anyone suggested Reznik was smart. He IS Khadoran after all. /troll

Thesher goes down as another rather situational effect on Scourge. I feel that's the problem most people have with it. Scourge has lots of abilities that are situationally effective, and not many that are reliable. (at least the fire on Punisher is continuous)

At the same time, when those things do come up, they're great abilities. Purgation on the weapons, plus Arcane Vortex mean that he pretty much is his own choir.

[Exemplar's_Gaze]

He is in my eFeora anti-Terminus list (cause everyone needs one). She negates his slow speed with Escort, and with Ignite and Choir nothing will survive him. Butcher, Kharchev, pSkarre, Venethrax and any other campy casters also hate him.

[darisus]

I like Scourge as a second wave or late game piece. He just can't survive on the front lines like some of our other jacks. I do get alot more use out of purgation on his main blade then i thought i would at first there are alot of good upkeep spells out there.