PDoomy 35pts list needs a little help.

[Nicky666]

Okay so I have a local tournament coming up this Saturday and was looking to get some advise on the list I have made for it

Hoarluk Doomshaper, Shaman of the Gnarls +7
*Mulg the Ancient - 12
*Troll Impaler - 5
*Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (Max + UA) - 5
*Trollkin Fennblades (Max) - 8
*Fell Caller Hero - 3
*Trollkin War Wagon - 9

or

Hoarluk Doomshaper, Shaman of the Gnarls +7
*Mulg the Ancient - 12
*Swamp Troll - 4
*Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (Max + UA) - 5
*Trollkin Fennblades (Max) - 8
*Trollkin Scattergunners (Max + UA) - 10
*Fell Caller Hero - 3

[Beckman]

Okay so I have a local tournament coming up this Saturday and was looking to get some advise on the list I have made for it

OK, I dislike your lists above for the following reasons:
1. No STR / melee damage buff in either list, save KSB+SSE, which is insufficient. I always bring a STR / melee damage buff of some kind. Pyre/Slag/Rok/Mauler are all sufficient. What this lets you do is actually kill hard-to-hit casters that you have to boost in order to hit, AFTER you have goaded a couple of times. Also, when you run into Khador jacks with an ARM buff, or start rolling poorly, or if you're next to two heavies, you will be happy you brought a damage buff. I promise.
2. The ONLY action that that Impaler is getting is that War Wagon. It's not worth it to bring an Impaler solely to extend the range of a War Wagon. Unfortunately, what you really want is the Bomber/War Wagon/Impaler loadout. But that will leave you with too few heavy hitters.
3. You only have one heavy hitter. This just isn't right. You need at least two. Mulg and another heavy would be a good idea. You MIGHT be able to get away with Mulg and some heavy duty infantry, like MinChamps+Skadi, but in no situation would I every take to the field with only one way to get rid of enemy heavies or focus campers. You render yourself too vulnerable to a list with a focus camper (pButcher) and at least one serious heavy (Behemoth/Beast09). If you take the heavy Jack with your heavy hitter, your heavy hitter gets eaten by Doomreavers, or pButcher, or the second threatening heavy target. And then you're in serious trouble because you can't get through an enemy focus camper's armor.
4. The War Wagon is the points cost of your second heavy, and I don't know where else you would find the points, except cutting units.. of which you will need at least one to act as a jam so as to not get bogged down by enemy infantry.
5. I dislike Scattergunners. I would rather have another unit of single wound melee infantry. EX: Fenns + UA AND KWs both. I will say, though, that if you have to run Scattergunners, running them behind the Fenns+UA and with Fortune is not a bad way to do it.
6. The Swamp Troll isn't great. And the second list doesn't have enough punching power. The Swamp Troll doesn't help with that.

Instead, would run something like:

Hoarluk Doomshaper (*7pts)
* Dire Troll Mauler (9pts)
* Mulg the Ancient (12pts)
Trollkin Fennblades (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Trollkin Scattergunners (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Trollkin Scattergunner Officer & Drummer (2pts)
Fell Caller Hero (3pts)
Janissa Stonetide (3pts)

At least you'd have a tarpit, two heavies and a str buff. I think this list could do well. Remember to Fortune liberally, especially on the Scattergunners. The hole in your list is the lack of Pathfinder on your beasts and poor threat range. You're really going to have to get close in order to threaten a charge. Or goad your way in, which also works.

Good Luck!

Edit: Don't forget that you can "cut" for FURY when you leach - take damage in order to gain fury equal to the damage you took - in order to gain FURY that would put you up to your maximum FURY stat. If you lose a heavy, you will need to cut for 1-3 damage a turn if you keep the other heavy generating 4 FURY in order to operate as normal. This isn't a big deal - two heavies is a good number for pHoarluk. But you'd be surprised how many newer players don't know that they can cut in order to get FURY...

[Nicky666]

Normally when I use pDoomshaper (I have only used him 3 times) I take Scattergunners and give them Fortune, and anytime I take Fennblades I take a Fell Caller. As for warbeast I have had great success with one heavy and one light or even just one heavy if its a 5 Fury lock. I don't look at punching through Khador armor as not many people in my local meta play Khador much, it's normally Cygnar, Cryx, Circle, Legion, Menoth, Ret, Trolls, Minions and Mercs. I had the KSB+UA for Cryx incorporal and stealth models and for auto continues effects removal , but I can just use Purification for that. I normally play Trolls infantry heavy so that way I can tie up a lot of crap with tough rolls which I tend to roll a lot of, not bragging a few of the guys I play with say it's a bit unnatural. I will assume that Janissa is there for walls and armor pierce, I take her as a distraction piece. Thanks for the list advise I'll give that one a go, again I don't have much experience using pDoomy, I have been playing Trollbloods for almost a year and normally use Grim, Jarl, Calandra, Gunnbjorn and Borka.

[Beckman]

I don't look at punching through Khador armor as not many people in my local meta play Khador much, it's normally Cygnar, Cryx, Circle, Legion, Menoth, Ret, Trolls, Minions and Mercs.

Watch out - Every faction can stack ARM to a greater or lesser extent. And lists that you're making without two heavy hitters are vulnerable to lists that "accidentally" have two heavies in them, or have one heavy + the caster is a focus camper. That's not even to say that they're intentionally doing so.

Every faction has a list that can stack armor fairly well to a greater or lesser extent. Some of the lists below are stacking armor, the rest are just bad for you.

Lord Carver (*6pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
* Targ (2pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 9 Grunts) (7pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 9 Grunts) (7pts)
Rorsh & Brine (9pts)

Batten Down the Hatches: All models in Carver's battlegroup have +3 ARM, -2 DEF and no KD.


Hoarluk Doomshaper, Rage of Dhunia (*6pts)
* Pyre Troll (5pts)
* Earthborn Dire Troll (10pts)
* Mulg the Ancient (12pts)
Kriel Warriors (Leader and 5 Grunts) (4pts)
* 3 Kriel Warrior Caber Thrower (3pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 3 Stone Scribes (3pts)
* Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder (1pts)
Janissa Stonetide (3pts)

Classic +2 ARM from KSB, stacked with Janissa's animus and wall for a total of +4 ARM to both beasts.

Tyrant Xerxis (*5pts)
* Tiberion (11pts)
* Titan Gladiator (8pts)
Cataphract Cetrati (Leader and 5 Grunts) (11pts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Venators Slingers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
Agonizer (2pts)

Defender's Ward, Agonizer's aura against beasts and to stop focus allocation with 'Jacks on a critical turn.

Thagrosh, Prophet of Everblight (*5pts)
* Shredder (2pts)
* Carnivean (11pts)
* Scythean (9pts)
* Scythean (9pts)
Throne of Everblight (9pts)

-2 STR aura, +2 ARM animus from Carnivean, cast for free 1x/turn, and a feat to bring a beast back. Effective ARM22-23 on everything.

Kromac the Ravenous (*4pts)
* Gorax (4pts)
* Ghetorix (11pts)
* Warpwolf Stalker (10pts)
Druids of Orboros (Leader and 5 Grunts) (7pts)
Stoneward and 5 Woldstalkers (5pts)
Druid Wilder (2pts)

Although you can build a better ARM stacking list... The fact that this list out-threats you by so much AND can pull your heavies is pretty bad news.


Grand Scrutator Severius (*6pts)
* Templar (8pts)
* Vanquisher (8pts)
Avatar of Menoth (11pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Holy Zealots (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Holy Zealot Monolith Bearer (2pts)
The Wrack (3 wracks) (1pts)
Vassal Mechanik (1pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

3 Jacks, 8 focus caster with Defender's Ward. ARM23 Jacks with big damage grids aren't nice.

Adeptis Rahn Shyeel (*6pts)
* Banshee (10pts)
* Phoenix (10pts)
House Shyeel Battle Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
House Shyeel Battle Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Stormfall Archers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (5pts)
Arcanist (1pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts)

Mages pull you into the loving arms of the 'jacks. Eiryss to strip upkeeps, such as Banishing Ward.

Master Necrotech Mortenebra (*4pts)
* Deathjack (11pts)
* Leviathan (8pts)
* Reaper (6pts)
* Slayer (5pts)
* Slayer (5pts)
Warwitch Siren (2pts)
Warwitch Siren (2pts)

Too many jacks to handle.


Gorten Grundback (*7pts)
* Ghordson Driller (6pts)
* Ghordson Driller (6pts)
Alexia Ciannor & the Risen (Alexia and 9 Risen Grunts) (5pts)
Horgenhold Forge Guard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Horgenhold Forge Guard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)

Weaponmasters with crit-smite. Plus STR of granite on Gorten, and a feat that pushes you around.

And of course, Cygnar will have the Stormwall soon, which will have ~60 boxes on ARM22 (or 19, when you purification the Arcane Shield). Good Luck hitting your way through that without a second heavy. With Mulg, it could happen... But you're kidding yourself if you think that the opponent is going to let that happen in a list where Mulg charges 9". The Stormwall out-threats Mulg.

While ARM stacking may not be in your meta currently, when Colossals hit the shelves, provided that people actually start playing with them in your area, I don't think you'll be able to avoid putting 2x heavies in your lists.