+6 WJ Points, 2 Stormwalls, 2 Storm Striders

[The Glen]

Was building a 50pt list and had a crazy notion. Double stormwalls, double storm striders and caster that gives +6 points is 50 points even. That's Lt. Caine, Kraye, Sloan, the Nemos, the Strykers and Blaize. I was thinking it's crazy talk, but you have a whole mess of anti-infantry, long range POW 14+ guns, and if they get close POW 20s. Caine is probably right out, and since there is no infantry Blaize would be underpowered. Stryker's snipe and arcane shield means you can hit things from a very long way away and then shrug off damage when they close. Darth boosts the melee capacities, probably our only caster capable of doing this. Kraye boosts your tremendous shooting abilities, and if they get close enough, full tilt on a stormwall is a very scary thing. The Nemos were made to run jacks like these, though Commander suffers a bit from no other spellcasters in your army. Sloan loves the shooting and shooting is what this army has in spades.

The army might have problems with fast swarm, but between the 4 shots from the striders plus the leaps, the 4-8 shots each from the walls, the lightning pods and the caster's spells the bad guys will be running through a meat grinder. Think I might have to try this army, if only for shock value. I'll let you know how it played.

[PG_ForsakenPoptart]

I like this more than I can say. Personally, I think Stryker would benefit this army the most- he can buff 3 models per turn, and still have 3 focus to give out. I'm thinking: Stormwall 1 gets Snipe, Stormwall 2 gets Arcane Shield, and Stryker gets Blur.
You'll have a TON of long range firepower, and even more troop zapping ability. The only problem here is you'll struggle against armies with incoporeal models, with a whopping one magical attack in the whole army.

[Lagrider]

lol that is pretty savage.. imo wouldn't you be better off to vut one stormstrider though? I know it's less redic but you could end up with

pstryker -6
Stormwall 19
Stormwall 19
sylys 2

Storm strider 9

junior 3
Aiyanna and holt 4

Now you have two arcane shields snipe for the storm strider and an extra 2 inches for stykers earthquake. Also with aiyanna you have magic weapons.

[The Glen]

You could drop a strider but that defeats the whole feel. I am gunning for that feeling you got when you saw the AT-ATs on Hoth for the first time. Its a gimmick army, but it is one hell of a gimmick.

[Lagrider]

Those AT-AT's were supported by infantry : X

[JohnOSpencer]

I think Caine1 would work well with this. Deadeye, Snipe and Blur are awesome. He loves to have somewhere safe to teleport back to and his feat will just about end any (non-stealth) infantry threat to you. He'd play a bit differently, more support with perks rather than super-solo.

[The Glen]

Those AT-AT's were supported by infantry : X

Tell that to General Veers...

[TheRupert]

I freakin' LOVE this. Consider this idea stolen

[The Glen]

Tried it with Lt. Caine. JohnOSpencer was right. It was a slaughter. A Khador Jack army got blown to bits with only a suicide run by the Butcher killing a Stormwall as their counterpunch. Jacks were knocked down. Infantry was slaughtered. Pods blocked charge lanes everywhere. Butcher had to stop multiple times to kill the pod sitting right in front of him just to get out of the way. People are lining up to try to beat this list. Most of them still don't have any idea how yet.

[bouncymischa]

I think most of the factions can pull this off -- I know when Hyperion was first spoilered I and a couple of other people in the Retribution forums speculated on a 50 point list with two Hyperions and two AFGs. I think the Protectorate might even be able to squeeze in their Choir to go along with them. But the Cygnar variant is likely the strongest, as both the Storm Strider and Stormwall are the top of their respective classes.

[Borkasbrewer]

In the words of Liam Nesson's nemesis in Taken - 'Good Luck'

Not only in playing this, but finding many people who want to play against it.

[TKaz84]

Watch for cloud effects. Having all of those guns won't do any good if you can't shoot at anyone.

[Crate123]

Was building a 50pt list and had a crazy notion. Double stormwalls, double storm striders and caster that gives +6 points is 50 points even. That's Lt. Caine, Kraye, Sloan, the Nemos, the Strykers and Blaize. I was thinking it's crazy talk, but you have a whole mess of anti-infantry, long range POW 14+ guns, and if they get close POW 20s. Caine is probably right out, and since there is no infantry Blaize would be underpowered. Stryker's snipe and arcane shield means you can hit things from a very long way away and then shrug off damage when they close. Darth boosts the melee capacities, probably our only caster capable of doing this. Kraye boosts your tremendous shooting abilities, and if they get close enough, full tilt on a stormwall is a very scary thing. The Nemos were made to run jacks like these, though Commander suffers a bit from no other spellcasters in your army. Sloan loves the shooting and shooting is what this army has in spades.

The army might have problems with fast swarm, but between the 4 shots from the striders plus the leaps, the 4-8 shots each from the walls, the lightning pods and the caster's spells the bad guys will be running through a meat grinder. Think I might have to try this army, if only for shock value. I'll let you know how it played.

I would love to play against this with an eLylyth list, an entire army you cant attack at all. You definately need some kind of stealth remover, so Kraye might almost kinda work but the others would be screwed.

[abysswalker711]

Watch for cloud effects. Having all of those guns won't do any good if you can't shoot at anyone.

Don't clouds and forests not block LoS to, or from, a colossal? I might be wrong here, but I thought I remembered that being a colossal rule.

Although the striders would still be boned :P

[JohnOSpencer]

I would love to play against this with an eLylyth list, an entire army you cant attack at all. You definately need some kind of stealth remover, so Kraye might almost kinda work but the others would be screwed.

They are still P+S 20. Lylyth2 and her beasts will have to kill them before they get to melee. And the two Storm Striders can screen the Stormwalls, and shoot at Storm pods for the leaps. I don't think it'd be a great matchup, but it is winnable. Kraye (or Siege) would make it ugly, of course Siege is only 5WJ points, so it'd have to change for him.

[Crate123]

Don't clouds and forests not block LoS to, or from, a colossal? I might be wrong here, but I thought I remembered that being a colossal rule.

Although the striders would still be boned :P

No. Colossals and Battle Engines can not see through clouds however everything can target a Colossal or Battle Engine through clouds (and forests). Its a one way deal.

[Crate123]

They are still P+S 20. Lylyth2 and her beasts will have to kill them before they get to melee. And the two Storm Striders can screen the Stormwalls, and shoot at Storm pods for the leaps. I don't think it'd be a great matchup, but it is winnable. Kraye (or Siege) would make it ugly, of course Siege is only 5WJ points, so it'd have to change for him.

Well the list kills a strider a turn and puts some damage on the other one so that wont last long and leaps on a arm 18 beasts doesnt do much. The list is close to killing a Stormwall on feat turn. Outside of kraye I would say its a guaranteed loss (if its the 2 stormwalls + 2 striders).

[abysswalker711]

No. Colossals and Battle Engines can not see through clouds however everything can target a Colossal or Battle Engine through clouds (and forests). Its a one way deal.

Oh my bad.. Thought it was a two way thing for colossals. Then yeah that would suck!

[The Glen]

What's the Lylith list? I haven't had any problems with stealth lists due to pods blocking charge lanes. If it's soft and squishy you just arc off the pods. Caine is running around with a very large threat range, they have to charge from 10" or more or else Cygnar walks/charges and pounds or blasts into dust. You have to kill most of the list on an alpha strike because the Cygnar counter will probably leave you very short on warbeasts. She's only got 5 fury, running a lot of warbeasts is going to be tough for her, and this list rapes infantry. The biggest threat is you have to keep her 19" away from the big guys because a single stormpod 4" away from her means she's going to be taking 12 damage from the 4 leaps on average rolls even with stealth. Without stealth she's probably very dead, very quickly. The Hoth list controls charge lanes, eats squishy things and can take a punch. Against a caster whose biggest weakness has been heavy armor since the beginning, I think she's the one with a problem.

[hmk17]

It's typically a tier list from what I have seen.

eLylith
Non-character warbeasts (ie. Angelius, Teraph)
Warbeasts with ranged attacks (ie. Bolt Thrower, Ravagore)

Striders
Raptors
Anyssa
Strider Solos.

She casts Shadow Pack off the bat to give herself and the beasts Stealth and then army is about halfway across the field on turn 1. Pursuit can push things even farther for the kill. IF your opponent buys for Tier3, he can get 2+ Forest templates 20" from his back edge. Raptors are the only things in the army without Stealth at the end of turn 1 and will usually be sitting in a forest.

Army usually pushes for some line on the opponent's caster so that Pin Cushion can help get the hits and big damage.

The list has a problem with really thick armor and extra hit boxes, while it can annihilate infantry and kill casters. It also falls over in a stiff breeze though.


With 4 Covering Fire templates and 6 Lightning Pods, Stealth is not too much of an issue if placed well. But the entire army is nothing short of a hose to ranged with no stealth.

[The Glen]

Standard Lylyth list then. I've played with and against the Hoth list, trying to test it for a tourney. In four games it's 4-0, though one game I don't count because the other guy panicked and really didn't play his army intelligently. It's immune to a lot of shenanigans I usually see. Poledance is practically worthless against it, she can't dominate or TK anything except Caine and if he's visible you're doing something stupid. The VIP's are usually the pods. Just dropping the pods 1" ahead of you can screw up the enemy charge. Caine's biggest use I've found is shooting unwanted pods. We tried heavy stealth lists, they die to e-leaps. We tried heavy armor lists. Caine tosses them around like rag dolls from 17" away. Granted, obviously haven't faced any other Colossals though have taken on a Khador Battle Engine. The pods and Striders vaporize supports solos and units. Eiryiss died when I dropped a covering fire template on her, and three more around her so the minute she moved she touched at least one more template. Granted the Walls are immune to disruptions and the only spell she will take off one is snipe. I'll ask the local Legion player to run ELylyth and report on that one.

[Lagrider]

The Elylith list they are talking about is one I have faced in 25 point tournaments. Consists of elylith and 3 ravagores..... Feat drops 6 pow 16 aoe's on your face from 18 inches away ignoring stealth clouds etc... I assume at 50 pts it's the same idea except rounded out with a couple forsaken.

[The Glen]

Faced off against ELylyth. Lightning got her quick, she was transferring damage constantly, the forsaken died pretty fast because they had no cover.. Lost a strider but Walls took care of the beasts. Once the two Ravagors when down, it was all over except the bleeding. Told my opponent the list in advance. He brought Hexhunters and Striders along with Ravagores and some point fillers. Peppering the striders with arrows was probably not the best idea but he had to try and draw them away from eleaping into Lylyth four times a turn.

[Hoffburger]

There are tons of ways to beat this list fairly easily, all of which I can think of involve caster kills. Anything that can make models on huge bases not block LoS and or has enough speed/mobility to get around 4 huge bases will be able to like up a kill on the caster.

Having sufficient terrain on the table also kinda ruins this list because huge bases aren't easy to maneuver around obstacles.

If I was fighting this list I'd take either Siege or eCaine and go for the easy assassination. With eCaine I'd take that mercenary that when it hits a model, makes it so it doesn't block LoS.

[Centa]

You are talking about Taryn, but unfortunatly Shadow Fire only affects friendly faction models, that means eCaine cannot shoot through it.

But its nice when you field a caster with snipe and pEiryss. That makes it pretty easy to disrupt the opponent caster.

[Hoffburger]

Nyss can CRA after she shadow fires right? Versh would probably work too.

[The Glen]

There are tons of ways to beat this list fairly easily, all of which I can think of involve caster kills. Anything that can make models on huge bases not block LoS and or has enough speed/mobility to get around 4 huge bases will be able to like up a kill on the caster.

Having sufficient terrain on the table also kinda ruins this list because huge bases aren't easy to maneuver around obstacles.

If I was fighting this list I'd take either Siege or eCaine and go for the easy assassination. With eCaine I'd take that mercenary that when it hits a model, makes it so it doesn't block LoS.

Terrain doesn't help as huge base models have pathfinder. A Kraye list spamming hunters would probably hurt but they would have a hard time swapping shot for shot. Electrical immunity goes a very long way but Caine can mow down most troups before they get there. Caine is the problem because is so hard to assassinate. Killing him isn't the problem hitting him is the problem. His ability to intercept threats has proven to be key. The main focus of the army is you're in range long before I am.

[Hoffburger]

Terrain is a HUGE problem (pun intended). Even with pathfinder you have to fully make it across obstacles etc. So long as I keep a few fodder units in key places, the huge bases will have extreme trouble with movement. If you don't think terrain is a problem then you aren't praying with adequate terrain. Play against a Cryx or Legion player who wants lots of obstacles and huge bases will be a big problem.

[Kraye]

One thing to play against before running in a tournament (if you have ret players in your meta at least) is against a caster like Kaelyssa, feedback (or whatever her version is called) can hurt any caster VERY quick, especially on a colossal, which is so easy to hit.

[The Glen]

Trying to face as many different lists for tourney reasons. Haven't done Retribution because we don't have any players around same thing for Gators

[The Glen]

Trying to face as many different lists for tourney reasons. Haven't done Retribution because we don't have any players around same thing for Gators

[sourclams]

I think eKaya would be terrible for this list to fight. Shadowpack and far more mobility means she picks the engagement, and Ghetto+Stalker+Pureblood with Forced Evo/Wraithbane swapping is two nasty melee monsters dogpiling into an unbuffed Stormwall, feat resetting, then repeating.

The only real weakness in that matchup is that Kaya will not have enough fury to run two beasts hot simultaneously so she'll either risk Frenzies, or be only sitting on 1 transfer. I assume that the Wilder, if present, would be shot to death immediately.

[The Glen]

Won't that leave her vulnerable to all the eleaps? That is what killed ELylyth quickly. On average she takes 12 points from four combined shots a turn. If she's only camping one fury that kills her dead fast.

[sourclams]

Kaya's ability to teleport and manage beasts outside her control area during feat turn gives her at least one turn greater longevity than Lylith, which is really all that's needed. A 100% stealth list (eLylith can't b/c of shepherds/forsaken reliance) also helps because she can let tharn and her battlegroup stand between her and any possible pod placement to tank all but the most heinous consecutive eleap bounces.

[The Glen]

One problem with that is the list eats infantry like candy. The pods kill 4d3 infantry practically automatic, making using a squad for a screen a very temporary method. It would be a tough fight but she still has to engage an army on her terms and stay out of 19" at the same time. The pods are excellent at blocking charge lanes, and if the purebreds can't get a clear charge arc, the feat would be wasted.

[Crate123]

I dont get why eLylyth was taking that much damage, seems someone was doing some fairly bad positioning with her, also bringing hex hunters and striders against your list was outright dumb.

[The Glen]

Hex Hunters were there because they filled points. Striders he wanted to run around the side and flank Caine. He took everything he had in his box. Lylyth was taking damage because she had problems staying 19" from the Stormwalls in a kill box. They moved 5", shot a pot 10" so they were 4" away and striders shot the pods repeatedly. Arc 4" into the elf, dice -4 x4. Terrain set up was the typical tourney D5 configuration (5 pieces of scenery laid out like the number 5 on a die).

[Crate123]

Hex Hunters were there because they filled points. Striders he wanted to run around the side and flank Caine. He took everything he had in his box. Lylyth was taking damage because she had problems staying 19" from the Stormwalls in a kill box. They moved 5", shot a pot 10" so they were 4" away and striders shot the pods repeatedly. Arc 4" into the elf, dice -4 x4. Terrain set up was the typical tourney D5 configuration (5 pieces of scenery laid out like the number 5 on a die).

So you played pCaine I take it, since eCaine cant afford 2 striders + 2 stormwalls.

[TheSanityAssassin]

As a player of every faction but Cygnar I will give you this:

1. You will win most of the games you play.
2. Outside of places where people HAVE to play you, you probably won't get many games.

[The Glen]

Oh this is a tourney list I will not deny in the slightest. I'm testing it for a hardcore tourney. I want people to give me suggestions on how to beat it so I can figure out how to beat those lists. Surprisingly lot of people want to test it out, so it's getting in games. I have loaned it out to try it against Cygnar lists. Don't try EHaley, that was a dumb idea. Against Epicer Nemo might be a hell of a fight though. The lightning pod trick for killing solos wouldn't work on him at all. This is PCaine all the way, I was going to use other casters but he fills a hole nobody else does and it gives him his hidey holes he needs so badly.