Mechanikal Armor question

[Enix7467]

Say I have a suit of Mechanikal Armor and I have a bull strength rune plate on it.

How much charge does the rune plate pull from my accumulator per round? and what kind of socket do i need?

[The_Gun_Nut]

That depends on how you constructed the armor.

If you crafted it as something intrisic to the armor, then the plate would draw an extra charge per day (if memory serves for a 2nd level spell).

If, intead, you crafted it as an add-on ACE, to be used only when necessary, then it would pull one charge per round (for a 2nd level spell).

In both cases, a trickle socket is necessary.

As I think about this, perhaps the rune plate would be better served as a plate on a glyphweave garment.

It's been a while since I did any serious theorycrafting for mechanika. Someone with more current experience may answer this better.

[Enix7467]

Alright thanks thats what I needed to know. It pulls a number of charges per day equal to half the spell level rounded down. Thanks

[Killj0y]

Not to argue with you gun_nut but the ACE cost is a bit off. Charge drain for ACE's is based on both the spell level and the power source. If the ACE is running from accumulators then the cost is 1 charge per 2 spell levels per shortest duration. If Bull strength is the only plate then it lasts the normal duration for the caster level of the plate.

If the ACE is tied into a warcasting rig built into the armor and running off of the arcane turbine then the 1 charge per round cost applies as turbines have a per round amount rather than a fixed amount.

This gets down to a question of cost vs. level. If you can make the plate yourself you can put the extra money into a high caster level plate which would have a long duration from a stored charge. If you don't want to invest in accumulators or charging you can instead shift the cost into fuel for the armor by running the arcane turbine to power the devices.

[Enix7467]

.....Mechanika creation should be a college course.

[Killj0y]

A math or engineering degree certianly couldn't hurt in understanding the overall process.

[theWestWinds]

Not to argue with you gun_nut but the ACE cost is a bit off. Charge drain for ACE's is based on both the spell level and the power source. If the ACE is running from accumulators then the cost is 1 charge per 2 spell levels per shortest duration. If Bull strength is the only plate then it lasts the normal duration for the caster level of the plate.

If the ACE is tied into a warcasting rig built into the armor and running off of the arcane turbine then the 1 charge per round cost applies as turbines have a per round amount rather than a fixed amount.

This gets down to a question of cost vs. level. If you can make the plate yourself you can put the extra money into a high caster level plate which would have a long duration from a stored charge. If you don't want to invest in accumulators or charging you can instead shift the cost into fuel for the armor by running the arcane turbine to power the devices.

This is both correct and incorrect... depending on what book you are lookign at. The description above is accurate if you are basing your decision off of the character guide. But, in Liber Mechanika, the rules were changed so that runeplates that give a direct spell ability, like an ACE, or a runeplate on weapons or armor that duplicates the effect of a spell, uses 1 charge per combat round for 1st and 2nd level spells.

Unfortunately, my GM is using the far more brutal rule in the LM. So I go through charges like its nobody's business. Luckely, as a warcaster, I have the Leadership feat. And my followers are mostly wizards. And I use them like a crew of battery chargers to keep my accumulators full, thanks to the arcane condenser.

So, anyways, ya. There are two seperate rules for this. the original rule shoots off the spell as if it was cast normally by a caster of the caster level the plate was created at. The other uses a charge or more a round and lasts as long as you pay the charges.

[Killj0y]

*sigh* I've had this argument about 3 dozen times by now.

Open the LM to the page in question with the charge table on it. Now turn back 1 page.

On the previous page the section heading starts with Alternate power sources and goes on to describe the usage of the storm chamber and the arcane turbine.

The reason the table exists in the first place is that you cannot use items with a charge cost in DAYS on a device that supplies power in TURNS.

The math is just incompatible. Try it. Go on i'll wait.............done yet?

So. The LM which goes into some detail on aspects of the mechanika system AND presents several NEW systems for various mechanika gives us this table for ACEs that permits someone to attach rune plates to a turbine or storm chamber and have a valid cost table on a turn by turn basis rather than trying to figure out the draw on a daily basis.

The table does not supplant the one in the IKCG it aides the IKCG by clarifying the cost for devices on unusual per round charge schemes.

Again. Your GM is wrong. He's doing it backwards and needs to re-read the books.

[theWestWinds]

*sigh* I've had this argument about 3 dozen times by now.

Open the LM to the page in question with the charge table on it. Now turn back 1 page.

On the previous page the section heading starts with Alternate power sources and goes on to describe the usage of the storm chamber and the arcane turbine.

The reason the table exists in the first place is that you cannot use items with a charge cost in DAYS on a device that supplies power in TURNS.

The math is just incompatible. Try it. Go on i'll wait.............done yet?

So. The LM which goes into some detail on aspects of the mechanika system AND presents several NEW systems for various mechanika gives us this table for ACEs that permits someone to attach rune plates to a turbine or storm chamber and have a valid cost table on a turn by turn basis rather than trying to figure out the draw on a daily basis.

The table does not supplant the one in the IKCG it aides the IKCG by clarifying the cost for devices on unusual per round charge schemes.

Again. Your GM is wrong. He's doing it backwards and needs to re-read the books.

That is some beautiful music you are singing to me my friend... I need to re-read this section and talk to my GM. Thanks for the info!

[theWestWinds]

Now, I hear what you are saying and I re-read the section... You are saying that the table in question (LM, page 64-65) is for how an ACE that normally works on a per/day rate would work for a power source that supplies charges on a per/round rate.

But the example they give is pretty clear. It says, and I quote

"If an ACE is running Blur (2nd Level), Mage Armor (1st Level), and Globe of Invulnerability (4th Level), It will be using 4 charges per round from its accumulators."

Those ACE abilities are not normally per day rates. there is no need to convert those ACE abilities to a per round rate. Also, it specifically says "from its accumulators" not "from its alternative per round power source".

I want to believe you. I hope you are correct. But I don't have much to go on when I am showing my GM. All I can do is say "hey look, its right there by the alternative power source section... eh?" Is there anywhere where what you are saying is specifically said in the book?

[Killj0y]

Sadly no. Everything I have is based on inferance.

The section heading doesn't change between the previous page and the table but a lot of stuff was badly edited on that book and some tables are several pages away from where they should be.

Nowhere in the rules on that page does it say that it is replacing the previous text.

I appologize for steering your wrong with the per day note. Normal ACE's running on accumulators draw based on an unusual pattern.

You take the total levels of all three plates you put into the ACE, then divide by 2. Next take the durations of all three plates and pick out the shortest one.

Say you have three plates total levels 6, one with a duration of 4 rounds, one duration of 5 minutes and one with a duration of 1 round. Then your ACE would draw 3 charges every round and power all three spells.

If you remove the 1 round duration you would have an engine that runs for 4 rounds on 2 charges. If you remove both the 1 round and 4 round you have an engine that runs for 5 minutes on 1 charge.

There's a whole big section in the IKCG about how you have to carefully balance the durations of the spells you put into an ACE so that you get the best usage out of it.

[The_Gun_Nut]

I don't see the charges from turbines on a "per round" basis so much as a number of slots available. If the item in question actually uses charges per round, then it works out fine.

I mark them out as slots, as it generally makes the bookkeeping easier, and it's good enough for government work.

[PG_Askew37]

I am really really really REALLY hoping that the counter-intuitive mechanikal item creation is something they take care of in the new IK RPG they're writing.