Steelhead misnomer

[baronvonchaos]

So I popped out my pMagnus t4 list at 35pts* on the table for the first time in a while, yesterday. I got waffle stomped hardcore twice. Probably because I'm so used to playing Sea Dogs in a pirates life (who are incredibly resilient with super-tough). I moved my steelheads forward and they took cover. My opponent proceeded to move typon up under pVayl and spray at my def 11 Steelheads killing all but 2 of them. The second dude moved up his Wold shrimp and shot the crap out of all my dudes. Pow 12's and def 12, ARM 15?!

The first guy had his Angelius proceeded to 1 shot all 3 of my SH Heavy cav and Stannis in 1 turn (and they were spread out, but reach and overtake give him MASSIVE threat range). In the second game the Woldshrimp massacred them and then they failed a command check because stannis died. I sincerely hope I misplayed Steelheads. My first impression of them is "they suck" but I can't say that since 1) I don't have a ton of experience, and 2) they made a caster for the Steelheads they're so prevalent.

SO! what I want to know, is how do you advance SH Halberdiers and SH Cav under Stannis and take advantage of charges and flank and all the cool abilities? (Note: This is not a rules question). They die like weenies the way I play them. I have TFG under the Protectorate, but they get shield wall so they can absorb the charge and mitigate losses. The phrase, "How the heck!?" keeps coming up.

[theflyingdutchman59]

well have the piper and use death march, that can get you up pretty dam far.

[PG_Crump]

Steelheads work best if you take the full unit of them, otherwise they all just die and you feel useless. They do die easy, thats why they cost 4/6. That being said a Min Unit is 16, and a Max Unit is 20. Seriously, spend 12 points for 20 of them. You'll have a lot more success.

[LiamPiver]

Yep. I agree with Crump. I tend to run at least 2 units if not 3 now. They are just so cheap for what you get out of them. With Stannis, they can just move anywhere they want to go and ignore each other.

[absent]

You don't agree with crump, that was someone else that said that.

Anyway i always expect to lose all but 2 of my steelheads, the last 2 do something awesome though.

[Panzeh]

Steelheads are great at taking up space and providing flank for the cavalry. They're useless outside the charge, but for a 4/6 unit with no UA required, i can roll with that.

I wish steelhead rifles were 5/8 because then I would use the whole trifecta outside Damiano lists.

[absent]

I think the rifles want a mini feat really bad, haven't used them much but they are just hard to justify over other ranged units that have longer range or more survivability. Or both.

[baronvonchaos]

Rhupert was my next choice. At 35 pts I don't have room for 2 full units and even a min unit of cav and Stannis. What are your lists like? Ideally, I'd bring 2 full SH Halberdiers, 1 full SH H. Cav, and 1 full SH Riflemen. And Stannis. That's 35 pts just like that. No support solos or anything.

I think the rifles want a mini feat really bad, haven't used them much but they are just hard to justify over other ranged units that have longer range or more survivability. Or both.

Other gunner choices like Trenchers and/or Long Gunners?

[mikethefish]

Or even just a few shooting support solos, like Herne n John, MacNaile, Harlan, Holt, stuff like that. You frequently don't need a full unit of Riflemen, since most of the time they do their whole 2-man CRA thing and don't generate a very high volume of fire.

EDIT - oh and i believe absent was probably referring to Nyss, or Gun Mages when he mentioned the other options

[absent]

Or like you said solo's for support fire, or even moving the guns onto my jacks, or depending on the caster, boomhowlers, or etc etc. I have yet to find a real home for riflemen, i own 2 units somehow, prize support bought them for me, but i can't really get a good fit for them. (i was also even thinking high shields, who do have a UA and are a lot tougher)

[Tucker]

Riflemen are unbelievably brutal under Damiano, thanks to Money Shot and Dead Eye. They also benefit from having Gunner MacNeille to extend their range, and Lady Aiyanna to increase damage, etc. Outside of Damiano, they're good for providing mobile, highly accurate mid-range firepower, but they definitely need to be part of a combined arms approach. They fall apart on their own very quickly.

As for the Halberdiers and Cavalry, the primary virtue of Halberdiers is that they are cheap, because oh man do they die quick, as the OP discovered. You have to develop something of an eye for their engagement range and move them aggressively so the enemy only gets one turn of shooting to kill them. I use mine to either jam the enemy and get in his way, or provide flank for cavalry. Killing stuff is secondary.

With the cavalry the trick is to not be too aggressive with them, since their defensive stats stink. Hang back, let the enemy come to you, then counter attack when he moves into range. If you're using Halberdiers it might be a good idea to change from their normal aggressive gameplan and hang back instead with the cavalry, providing a concentrated counter-attack.

Of course, if you're counter attacking, you need guns to force the enemy to try to engage you. Cavalry can shoot okay (scooting forward, shooting, then scooting back with a ride by attack is a good trick) but you need more. A couple of shooty jacks (Mules or whatever), some Gun Mages, that sort of thing. You don't need much, just enough to draw the enemy forward.

[MagnustheJust]

Part of what's going on her is a lesson we all learned at one time or another.


Just because you can be on your opponent's side of the table when the game starts, doesn't mean you have to or should be...


Steelheads do take a few games to get the rhythm down. Once you do, they are absolutely brutal!!

[Stretch Ink]

I use Halberdiers in, like, every list I make. The key is to view them as what they are: cheap, versatile, and disposable. I rush them up the field to unnerve the enemy while the more expensive elements of my army get into position. The Halberdiers can't be ignored -- they hit pretty hard on the charge -- and, as long as you take max units and space them out well, they can be tricky to take out, especially with a simple buff on them, like Blur. Reach makes them absolute gold -- a spread-out unit of Steelheads can tie up a lot of things you might not otherwise want to deal with.

I use the Riflemen fairly often, as well, and I agree that they are best taken in min-sized units. They are an excellent mobile fire squad -- re-rolling their CRAs means they don't have to get the aiming bonus, and the short standing range on their rifles means they don't want to. Advance 6" and pop off three 2-man CRAs. It's surprisingly effective; POW 13 shots are nothing to sneeze at, and the Riflemen nearly always hit. I usually put them on a flank, where they can either advance unmolested or draw a disproportionate amount of attention.

I've just started experimenting with the cavalry, with mixed results, but that's mostly because I always have a hard time using cavalry effectively. When you get the flank bonus off, they hit stupidly hard, and Damiano's Money Shot makes their Assault much better. The more I use them, the more I believe that the min-size unit is the way to go. You can spread them out and not break the bank. In my experience, they work best on a flank, not in the center. They're fast enough that they don't need the prime center spot to reach choice targets, and they're fragile enough that you don't want to expose them to too much heavy fire.

[DocMerc]

I will generally run Saxon with them to hive the haberdiers pathfinder. Take advantage of concealment bonuses where you can. I also use them to absorb charges wherever possible. With set defense they can be rather difficult for many things to hit in my experience.

Generally they are a speedbump

[baronvonchaos]

Blur on Steelheads is a great idea. I'll have to do that. I have 4 more coming in the mail (so a full unit), and I'll be good to go there. I may try fielding Alexia and putting some risen up front to take some of the initial blow and also tie things up.

I think that I just need to put the ranged pressure on folks. In my circle game the little wold shrimp shot the crap out of me. Baldur used Solid ground so Obliterators were next to useless. I couldn't engage and hack enough woldshrimp to get things done. Having a ranged threat is where I need to go (and not an AOE threat at that).

[Laevus]

It also bears mention that Steelheads are absolutely brutal when they aren't the enemy's priority. It has been mentioned above that they hit too hard to be ignored, but many players (especially facing Steelheads outside of a Damiano list) when faced with a caster and battlegroup of several light warjacks and a heavy on one flank, and a Steelhead formation on the other, will focus fire on the jacks. This is especially true of opponents who bring armies of a few big models (Colossals, character jacks, etc) who will face a tougher choice of prioritizing targets.

But in general, the above comments are very accurate, and the best thing to be done for Steelhead survivability beyond bringing large numbers, is running them with Ashlynn under a Highborn Covenant Contract, and popping her feat early. Running them for the first round, then popping feat in round 2 is generally close enough to enable charges, only lets them get shot at for one round, and gives them good survivability to hit again in round 3.

[dbullock]

I take Steelheads in every merc game I play. Since the models first came back waaaaay back in the day, they have been in my lists.

1. Always take the maximum unit, as others have said. 10 halberdiers hurt. 6 are a waste of points. The guys I play with know that my halberdiers, if not attacked right out of the box, will always earn more than their points back. The stories are endless -- Charge, CMA on Terminus. Yeah, that earned them respect and a first target priority from that Cryx player. Tie up the warp wolf almost every game, etc....
2. I love the tier lists, but if I cannot take the piper, I usually do not take the lists. Halberdiers need somebody to help them out -- Saxon does a decent job, but the piper is your real bread and butter here. Nothing like 10 guys who are tough for 8 points. Oh, did I mention they really hurt somebody if they ignore them? If you cannot get access to the piper or Saxon, then you better not be playing without 30 steelheads and Damiano's lists.
3. They die like flies. Get used to it.
4. Love the riflemen, but I rarely take more than 6 either, as I think they are just too pricey at the full unit.
5. If you are not playing a tier list, grab Alexia. Remember #3 -- they die like flies. Let them kill all of your halberdiers, as they'll just come back to fight again. I have had several players get angry with the combo -- they cannot afford to ignore the halberdiers for fear of me sneaking up on them, but they do not want to kill them because they know the risen will annoy them, too. Yet they cannot get to my caster without wading through all of that mess. I just sit and grin.
6. Never taken the cavalry, but I do take Stannis. I love throwing those halberdiers up there to both speed bump and strike fear in my opponents, all while the riflemen shoot between their buddies.
7. Lastly ... it takes some patience to move that many models. My mercs with the steelheads require a large footprint on the table. Most deployment zones feel a bit cramped and the first turn is often me running to spread them out a bit. Do not cluster up!

Dave

PS -- If you are not having fun with the steelheads ... well, I'm sure somebody will buy them from you rather quickly

[Thamarite Merc]

I take two min rifles over one max rifle every time. 1 more point for one more guaranteed POW 13 hit and the ability to spread out more against AoE and guard both flanks at once. If I want massive CRAs I take Longgunners (cause they get two of them for the price of one) or Nyss Hunters (weapon master, hunter, pathfinder, higher DEF), but with a Steelhead package there are always horsies to do in the big stuff.

[Thamarite Merc]

I may try fielding Alexia and putting some risen up front to take some of the initial blow

Ahhmm, thats not how Risen work. They don't take initial blows, they pick up the scraps of other units and either convert them to solos or turn Alexia into Ms. Crazy Horrorgirl. If you put them up front, they will only clog up your own charge lanes until your opponent gracefully mops them up for you, leaving Alexia hanging in the wind. The really only exception to that is Durgen Madhammer, who can prime them to become somewhat dangerous in and of themselves.

[baronvonchaos]

Since the models first came back waaaaay back in the day, [...]

PS -- If you are not having fun with the steelheads ... well, I'm sure somebody will buy them from you rather quickly

Back in the day. Yeah didn't really read the "forefend" ability back in the day. I would have owned 2 units of them . Anywho. Not having fun?! heh. I believe the fun is just beginning.

Ahhmm, thats not how Risen work.

I have played a mighty 1 game with Alexia (just picked her up) and I used 4 of the initial risen to fan out threats. I know I'll get some more risen next turn, but if I can use some risen to absorb a shot or 2, then there's more steelheads alive. If they ignore the risen, they become Thralls. and they're up front.

I have a Macbain! list with Alexia and around 30 steelhead (min riflemen, h. cav., stannis, and 2 full units of Halbies.) Support solos and what have you to fill in the cracks.

[jwai]

I often have trouble getting Halberdiers and Heavy Cavalry coordinated properly for the best case scenario. It also doesn't help that I only have a single unit of Halberdiers in order to accommodate Gun Mages and other bits of support.

[pattison]

Halbies run turn1 then charge or run turn2. With tough and with 2 of them positioned slightly behind the others preferably in cover you shouldn't really have problems with having some left for flanking purposes.

[baronvonchaos]

Cover is tough as I tend to have issues with pathfinder, but I guess I should quit forgetting Rhupert.

[Teufelscuba]

I recently played a 35 pt. Damiano 4* list, I took one full unit of Halbs, with the combination of surefoot and Rhupert did well, but I agree u gotta run first turn maybe even use a coin box to get some extra move, then charge ASAP. Also, using the piper to make them tough is great, but dont forget it makes them fearless too.

[MagnustheJust]

Cover is tough as I tend to have issues with pathfinder, but I guess I should quit forgetting Rhupert.

And Saxon Orrik if playing Four-Star...

[baronvonchaos]

You can play Rhupert in the 4*. Same with the Devil Dogs... It states it specifically under the tenets of the contract. Saxon is great too. Just an FYI.

[Space Donkey]

I think he meant running both of them. I know I have and it is great fun.

[Ger]

If you have a single melee unit then you should be careful how you position them. It's often better to put them somewhere to counter charge something threatening the rest of your army. (so off to one side) If they are center they should be under heavy buff protection so they aren't going anywhere. The third option would be feeding part of the unit a bit at a time. Halbs are nice because 2-3 guys ahead of the rest are enough to threaten a large area with freestrikes. Protecting the rest of the unit.

[baronvonchaos]

Using 2-3 out front is a good idea to mitigate loss. The theat range is the same as IronFangs or Flameguard.

And That makes more sense. Can't believe I would be correcting MagnustheJust...

[MagnustheJust]

Using 2-3 out front is a good idea to mitigate loss. The theat range is the same as IronFangs or Flameguard.

And That makes more sense. Can't believe I would be correcting MagnustheJust...

Whaaaaaaaaat??? I'm insane, not infallible...